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TOPSHELF

Well tempered classic

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I would be having a go at those grub screws. They've probably been nipped tight and possibly with ptfe tape on the thread. Just get a screw driver to suit the full width of the slit and it should be fine?

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21 hours ago, mloutfie said:

One last ditch of try I cleaned up the bearing well and dry it completely and replace the bearing oil with Mobil 1 5W30 which seems to be the recommended oil for well tempered from many reports. No luck will definitely looks for some professional help now

 

why do people use motor oil in their well tempereds ?

 

the factory silicon fluid packs for bearing and tonearm should still available from the distributor.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, TOPSHELF said:

I would be having a go at those grub screws. They've probably been nipped tight and possibly with ptfe tape on the thread. Just get a screw driver to suit the full width of the slit and it should be fine?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

Mine is hex screw and I'm using a tight fitting hex already. Size should be exact I can move the screw but it just goes through the twist. It's that tight

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17 minutes ago, michaelw said:

 

why do people use motor oil in their well tempereds ?

 

the factory silicon fluid packs for bearing and tonearm should still available from the distributor.

 

 

Most likely since well tempered says it in their manual motor oil is a suitable substitute

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ok.

not in my original manual

 

;)

 

 

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Guest Runaway
3 hours ago, michaelw said:

ok.

not in my original manual

 

;)

 

 

Not in the manual but there have been various posts apparently quoting William Firebaugh that it's ok to switch to motor oil.  For example the following from http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=93199.0


The tone arm gets 100,000 cSt 100% silicone. The main bearing originally got "Dow Corning 200 Fluid" which I believe is 50 cSt silicone, based on looking at the Dow Corning site. Now Firebaugh uses synthetic motor oil for the main bearing and says that exact viscosity is not critical- this is for both the earlier 'tables and the current ones. He says the synthetic motor oil works at least as well and is easily obtained.
 

There's an interesting point made by Art Dudley in https://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-47-follow-january-2008

He fixed the VTF, overhang and VTA/ arm height BEFORE adding the silicone and it worked.  This looks much easier and somthing to think about for the next oil change.

 

Btw, does anyone have a copy of Peter Moncrieff's review of the WT in his International Audio Review?  Supposed to have a wealth of technical information.  Tried googling for it unsuccessfully.

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22 hours ago, Runaway said:

Not in the manual but there have been various posts apparently quoting William Firebaugh that it's ok to switch to motor oil.  For example the following from http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=93199.0


The tone arm gets 100,000 cSt 100% silicone. The main bearing originally got "Dow Corning 200 Fluid" which I believe is 50 cSt silicone, based on looking at the Dow Corning site. Now Firebaugh uses synthetic motor oil for the main bearing and says that exact viscosity is not critical- this is for both the earlier 'tables and the current ones. He says the synthetic motor oil works at least as well and is easily obtained.
 

There's an interesting point made by Art Dudley in https://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-47-follow-january-2008

He fixed the VTF, overhang and VTA/ arm height BEFORE adding the silicone and it worked.  This looks much easier and somthing to think about for the next oil change.

 

Btw, does anyone have a copy of Peter Moncrieff's review of the WT in his International Audio Review?  Supposed to have a wealth of technical information.  Tried googling for it unsuccessfully.

 

ok thx for that.

 

i did have a copy of moncrieff's iar wtt review.

 

will have a hunt for it 

 

;)

 

edit - hands up those who want a copy ?

Edited by michaelw

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Guest Runaway
2 hours ago, michaelw said:

 

 

edit - hands up those who want a copy ?

Hands up!

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Hands Up!
I think i read something yesterday by him it was a tad ahem..... Heavy!
Also@mloutfie how is the tonearm stub looking? Did it fit ok?

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Guest Runaway

I had an interesting exercise today with @evil c I hooked up my WT to a two way step up transformer into a Pass Lab Aleph Ono (phono) to the Cary slp05 to Pass Lab Aleph 3 amp to the Atohm GT2.0HD speakers.  First, my LP12 (Cirkus, Trampoline) with Duc's univector on a Funk Achromat is also hooked up to the SUT.  Subsequently I swapped the LP12 with my Once Analog TT with Syrinx PU3 tonearm (picture below).  All 3 TT has Lyra Delos with WTF set at 1.75.  Also connected to the Cary slp05 is an Antipodes DX/ Questyle CAS192D Dac.  The exercise was to do a head to head between the WT, LP12, OA and Antipodes.  The exercise was marred by the SUT which was a DIY job and one channel cut out occasionally (I subsequently retrieved a 2 way SUT custom made by Geoff/ Aurealis which worked perfectly).  First we listened to Keb Mo's Just like You which evilc brought.  As we only had one copy, we swapped between the LP12 and the WT.  Then we turned to my favourite test record - Norah Jones' Come Away with Me (Analogue Productions) which I had 2 copies of.  I also put on the album on the Antipodes (could not find Keb Mo's album on Tidal).  So whats the conclusion?

 

With the LP12/ Univector,  the vocals were intimate and detailed, imaging tight.  However switching to the WT was a revelation - the soundstage just expanded with no loss of detail.  Imaging was not as tight as the LP12 but the overall balance and integration was better.  Then we put the OA on.  The wide soundstage is still there but it sounded more compressed/ not as free flowing as the WT.  There were more details in some area but less in others.  Finally we compared to the digital copy on the Antipodes DX (recognising that there could have been different mastering).  The sound was crisp and detailed as expected, but there is a sense of less emotion than the WT (better duck from the digital guys, now).  Very different flavours from each TT and the DX.  I think the WT has the best overall sound but I like the intimacy of the LP12 and the OA really sound punchy and rock with some music.   

IMG_2451.JPG

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Very enjoyable and enlightening exercise at@Runaway s yesterday - have never had the opportunity to hear a Well Tempered which has always intrigued me with it's radical design.

The differences between the 3 decks was quite pronounced, all being fitted with the same Lyra Delos cart so a fair test of each .

The LP12 sounded very detailed and silky and could have happily lived with that flavor of sound,
however the Well Tempered from the first few seconds immediately impressed me with it's richer sound .
Richer in the mids and extending down to the lower and mid bass plus as Mun described a wider soundstage.

The amazing part of it all was how similar both our ears seemed to be in discerning the sonic signature of each turntable!

The Origin was a tad on the lean side dynamics wise but in itself non fatiguing while still providing more than enough detail overall.

As I mentioned to Mun, ignorance is bliss in this game - if you didn't directly compare you'd be happy with all three!

Love the Pass gear, very polished performers indeed and the Lyra is on my short list of carts to buy in the future.

And damn, that well Tempered really is a classic TT - for the money remarkable value .

An external power supply on the LP12 with Duc's Univector however could make it a harder choice between them though! [emoji4]


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8 hours ago, Runaway said:

I had an interesting exercise today with @evil c I hooked up my WT to a two way step up transformer into a Pass Lab Aleph Ono (phono) to the Cary slp05 to Pass Lab Aleph 3 amp to the Atohm GT2.0HD speakers.  First, my LP12 (Cirkus, Trampoline) with Duc's univector on a Funk Achromat is also hooked up to the SUT.  Subsequently I swapped the LP12 with my Once Analog TT with Syrinx PU3 tonearm (picture below).  All 3 TT has Lyra Delos with WTF set at 1.75.  Also connected to the Cary slp05 is an Antipodes DX/ Questyle CAS192D Dac.  The exercise was to do a head to head between the WT, LP12, OA and Antipodes.  The exercise was marred by the SUT which was a DIY job and one channel cut out occasionally (I subsequently retrieved a 2 way SUT custom made by Geoff/ Aurealis which worked perfectly).  First we listened to Keb Mo's Just like You which evilc brought.  As we only had one copy, we swapped between the LP12 and the WT.  Then we turned to my favourite test record - Norah Jones' Come Away with Me (Analogue Productions) which I had 2 copies of.  I also put on the album on the Antipodes (could not find Keb Mo's album on Tidal).  So whats the conclusion?

 

With the LP12/ Univector,  the vocals were intimate and detailed, imaging tight.  However switching to the WT was a revelation - the soundstage just expanded with no loss of detail.  Imaging was not as tight as the LP12 but the overall balance and integration was better.  Then we put the OA on.  The wide soundstage is still there but it sounded more compressed/ not as free flowing as the WT.  There were more details in some area but less in others.  Finally we compared to the digital copy on the Antipodes DX (recognising that there could have been different mastering).  The sound was crisp and detailed as expected, but there is a sense of less emotion than the WT (better duck from the digital guys, now).  Very different flavours from each TT and the DX.  I think the WT has the best overall sound but I like the intimacy of the LP12 and the OA really sound punchy and rock with some music.   

IMG_2451.JPG

That is one good looking Linn. interesting you out the RCA at the top of the plinth

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14 hours ago, TOPSHELF said:

Hands Up!
I think i read something yesterday by him it was a tad ahem..... Heavy!
Also@mloutfie how is the tonearm stub looking? Did it fit ok?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

Was so busy trying to stabilise the platter. I'm over it now just stretching it so I can enjoy the turntable. I'll try to set up the stub sometimes this week

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interesting comparison.

 

good to see another wtt with a  reference clamp.

did you get it from transparent audio ?

it makes a difference, as does wrapping the arm tube

;)

 

speaking of...

what's the blob near the cartridge mounting slot ?

 

 

 

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This is becoming a very informative thread!@Runaway thanks for the write up. Could i ask a few questions?
Your WT looks like it's been rewired, who was able to do this for you? I too have the tonearm rca leads sitting vertical on the base of the plinth it just seems better.
Does the cartridge mounting kit for $40 US include a pair of each of the "knobs" shown in the pics?
Also can you take a pic from above your cart showing the angle of the cart in relation to the arm?
Cheers Ian.

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Guest Runaway

@TOPSHELF I believe the rewiring was done by Duc/ Lovetube (although he's not doing such work for a little).  You may be able to get it done by Vince Hamilton (I understand he was a previous owner of my WT).  I find the double sided tape affixing the RCA out plate sometimes come loose and I have to angle heavier RCA leads carefully.

 

Yes, the screw set include a pair of each of the screws (8 altogether).  I use the plastic ones in the Once Analog (you can just see the white blobs).  

 

Will take a pic later today.  

 

 

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@TOPSHELF it fits beautifully small caveat if you use one only screw it until the slightest resistant. I accidentally slightly dent the tonearm just by tighten it a bit too much

20170802_183704.jpg

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Lovely, it looks like you have had a rewire too. I'd love to give this a go but don't want to loose the sand from out of the tonearm. Someone mentioned wrapping the arm? Has anyone done this?

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What vtf are you setting? I find minor adjustments on this arm will affect the vtf.....

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The previous owner might have rewired it. I set it 1.5 at the moment. Vtf is tricky considering the platter is concave from edge to centre there is a slight variation

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Once understood it's fun tuning the WT. I have found a wealth of knowledge on audiocircle just look up "well tempered audiocircle" I've noticed a few members from here over there.....

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