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Gieseler Audio

GIESELER KONVERTER (DAC/Preamp) Official release.

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Guest scumbag
13 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Actually I will be doing a DAC only version soon. It will look similar to the Konverter - same height but 250 mm wide.

Tech wise it will be a step up from a Klein II as it will be based on the Konverter ( Balanced out, Jensen transformers, OLED Display, AK4497EQ ect) 

Also the power supply section will be using the new ultra low noise linear Technology regulators.

Projected price around 2K 

Sorry, spoke out of turn!

Emma chezit?

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Nice! Will it look similar to the Konverter as well?

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7 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Actually I will be doing a DAC only version soon. It will look similar to the Konverter - same height but 250 mm wide.

Tech wise it will be a step up from a Klein II as it will be based on the Konverter ( Balanced out, Jensen transformers, OLED Display, AK4497EQ ect) 

Also the power supply section will be using the new ultra low noise linear Technology regulators.

Projected price around 2K 

....and if we could just add an option for streaming (Roon endpoint, etc), like a built-in micro rendu  style unit, then we're in business!!  I recall some discussion re this?  Well done Clay!

Edited by Mat-with-one-t

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Hi Joe,

yes it will look like a smaller version of the Konverter.

 

Hi Mat,

sounds like a good plan - will look into it.

Edited by Gieseler Audio

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2 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Hi Joe,

yes it will look like a smaller version of the Konverter.

 

Hi Mat,

sounds like a good plan - will look into it.

Perhaps you could save a bit of effort and use the same case as the pre? You could perhaps use the extra real estate for the streaming section?  Or would the lot all fit?  That way you could offer:

1. One with the lot (pre, dac, streamer)

2. Dac and streamer

3. Dac only

and use the same case for all of them....?

Woukd make for easy upgrade/sidegrades down the track too...

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8 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Actually I will be doing a DAC only version soon. It will look similar to the Konverter - same height but 250 mm wide.

Tech wise it will be a step up from a Klein II as it will be based on the Konverter ( Balanced out, Jensen transformers, OLED Display, AK4497EQ ect) 

Also the power supply section will be using the new ultra low noise linear Technology regulators.

Projected price around 2K 

O Dear ......... I had better start saving ............. again ........... siggghhh ........ :)

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Perhaps you could save a bit of effort and use the same case as the pre? You could perhaps use the extra real estate for the streaming section?  Or would the lot all fit?  That way you could offer:
1. One with the lot (pre, dac, streamer)
2. Dac and streamer
3. Dac only
and use the same case for all of them....?
Woukd make for easy upgrade/sidegrades down the track too...

I think sharing casings is a great idea if possible, but imho the Konverter casing looks lightyears ahead of the klein/etc casing. I'm not complaining at all re the current casing, just saying how much nicer the new one is. :-)

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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On 2/22/2017 at 1:08 PM, bhobba said:

 

Yes - good point.

 

I will qualify this - the future of streaming audio.

 

I listen to Tidal pretty much exclusively these days due to it has everything I ever listen to including new releases.  All for just $20pm.

 

The issue is quality.  I give the order as follows from a number of experiments I have done:

 

1.  Lowest quality - normal Tidal.  Despite that its what I use since its still very listenable.

2.  On disk, usb drive etc.   Better - but not as convenient and you have to buy it or put your little pirate hat on.

3.  Streamed MQA - best of all.   Gradually Tidal is converting everything to MQA - it has over 1000 albums now and growing. Warner Brothers are converting everything over, Universal just agreed and now the only holdout is Sony - but how long before it agrees - doubtful it will be long, it will likely eventually come on board, but we will see.

 

Now as to quality compared to other formats - even DXD and 4XDSD - see the following and judge for yourself:

http://www.2l.no/hires/

 

Here is what one person thought:

http://www.2l.no/hires/documentation/2L-MQA_Comparisons.pdf

 

That's correct - better than DXD.

 

I can feel a GTG comming on.

 

BTW Clay is fully aware of all of this and will 100% for sure be looking at incorporating it in future products.   But as I said - its early days yet in the MQA 'revolution' if it happens - many a slip between lip and cup - so exactly what eventuates is anyone's guess.

 

What I can say 100% for sure is 96k MQA from the Tidal application sounds glorious through Clays new DAC - I have heard it.

 

Thanks

Bill


How did you get 96k MQA into the non-MQA DAC? 
When I try it this using Tidal Masters tracks via Tidal app on Windows to a non-MQA DAC via USB, the DACs just show the normal rate. Is a Bluesound Node 2 streamer (i.e. an MQA compliant streamer) the solution to this? 

 

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16 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Actually I will be doing a DAC only version soon. It will look similar to the Konverter - same height but 250 mm wide.

 

I like the idea to make the DAC only version in Konverter style but smaller. 

This is the way to go!

 

For all those looking for a streaming option:

 

AFAIK designing-from-scratch an interface like Microrendu or SMS-200 for the Gieseler DAC is VERY time consuming for hardware AND software. So in my view the best would be to buy the upcoming Gieseler DAC only plus a Microrendu or SMS-200.

 

Matt

Edited by matth

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2 hours ago, matth said:

 

I like the idea to make the DAC only version in Konverter style but smaller. 

This is the way to go!

 

For all those looking for a streaming option:

 

AFAIK designing-from-scratch an interface like Microrendu or SMS-200 for the Gieseler DAC is VERY time consuming for hardware AND software. So in my view the best would be to buy the upcoming Gieseler DAC only plus a Microrendu or SMS-200.

 

Matt

That seems fair enough.  That was actually what I was getting at - using a pre-existent solution.  I wonder if Clay could approach these guys about a bulk/open ended order for their product for inclusion in the dac?  Would be a nice neat option to stick it in the case with a plug at the back, and maybe power it off a Clay psu?

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@Mat-with-one-t

Mat,

please have a look here:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/forum/24-sonore-sponsored/

I do not know how much time Sonore spend on designing the Microrendu.

The other side of the coin is permanent software support and solving software problems all day long.

I would be perfectly happy with a Konverter style USB only DAC only in a 25cm width case and a sound quality like Linn Katalyst.

 

Matt

 

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Start of review thread here.

Happy for anyone else to jump in with their own review (or start your own). I'll be adding to it over the coming weeks as I get more listening time (and better photos).

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Hi Clay,

which clocks do you use for the Konverter?

Thanks

 

Matt

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Hi Matt.

on USB input the clocks used are the onboard ones in the Amanero Combo 384 which is runing in Asynchronous mode.

In S/PDIF mode I use the Wolfsom WM8804 with a Fox Electronics XpressO series oscillator.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gieseler Audio
Grammer

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2 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Hi Matt.

on USB input the the clocks used are the onboard ones in the Amanero Combo 384 which is runing in Asynchronous mode.

 

Hi Clay,

there is quite a discussion on various fora about the importance of the quality of clocks for the sound quality of the DAC. AFAIK, the quality of the clocks of the Amanero board is not in the same league as the AK4497 or the LT regulators. Do you think it could be beneficial to offer a clock upgrade for your DACs?

 

Matt

 

PS: According to this review the Amanero seems to be very good:

http://www.modelpromo.nl/Audio-GD_Master7-Amanero.htm

Edited by matth

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Hi Matt,

that is a very good point & something I have been thinking about for quite a while.

Probably the only reason it hasn't happen yet is during development of the Konverter we compared its sound quality to a well reviewed $9k DAC. The result of the sound quality was so close that if you had just walked into the room it was difficult to tell which DAC was playing. However that is no excuse for me not to continue to try & improve things even more so when time allowes I will look into a clock upgrade. Probably some form of galvanic isolation on the I2S lines & then reclocking.

Fortunatey due to the modular construction on the Konverter is would only be a ten minute job to swap over the digital board to a reclocked version if it sounded better.

That Amanero review link was very interesting - I always thought the Pink Faun unit would be the ultimate unit for PC Audio.

 

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On 2017-4-28 at 0:06 AM, nicholas9976 said:

How did you get 96k MQA into the non-MQA DAC? 
When I try it this using Tidal Masters tracks via Tidal app on Windows to a non-MQA DAC via USB, the DACs just show the normal rate. Is a Bluesound Node 2 streamer (i.e. an MQA compliant streamer) the solution to this? 

 

Under settings - streaming - where you select what output device you use there is a little widget next to it.  Click on the widget.   You get three options - use exclusive mode, force volume, and pass through MQA.  Click on use exclusive mode and force volume but leave MQA pass-through unchecked.

 

Thanks

Bill

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On 01/05/2017 at 4:20 PM, bhobba said:

 

Under settings - streaming - where you select what output device you use there is a little widget next to it.  Click on the widget.   You get three options - use exclusive mode, force volume, and pass through MQA.  Click on use exclusive mode and force volume but leave MQA pass-through unchecked.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

Hey Bill, 

 

Coincidentally I read an article earlier yesterday suggesting doing exactly the same, but on my Mac I can't select both exclusive and force volume, is that a Windows only thing?

 

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Guest scumbag
On 2017-5-1 at 7:27 AM, Gieseler Audio said:

Hi Matt,

that is a very good point & something I have been thinking about for quite a while.

Probably the only reason it hasn't happen yet is during development of the Konverter we compared its sound quality to a well reviewed $9k DAC. The result of the sound quality was so close that if you had just walked into the room it was difficult to tell which DAC was playing. However that is no excuse for me not to continue to try & improve things even more so when time allowes I will look into a clock upgrade. Probably some form of galvanic isolation on the I2S lines & then reclocking.

Fortunatey due to the modular construction on the Konverter is would only be a ten minute job to swap over the digital board to a reclocked version if it sounded better.

That Amanero review link was very interesting - I always thought the Pink Faun unit would be the ultimate unit for PC Audio.

 

The XMOS XU208 seems to be the input board of the moment. It would interesting to hear how that combo sounds. 

Edited by scumbag

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On 01/05/2017 at 7:27 AM, Gieseler Audio said:

that is a very good point & something I have been thinking about for quite a while.

Probably the only reason it hasn't happen yet is during development of the Konverter we compared its sound quality to a well reviewed $9k DAC. The result of the sound quality was so close that if you had just walked into the room it was difficult to tell which DAC was playing. However that is no excuse for me not to continue to try & improve things even more so when time allowes I will look into a clock upgrade. Probably some form of galvanic isolation on the I2S lines & then reclocking.

 

Do you think you would be able to implement changes of this nature to the replacement/update of the Klein DAC?

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On 01/05/2017 at 7:27 AM, Gieseler Audio said:

I always thought the Pink Faun unit would be the ultimate unit for PC Audio.

 

It is - it's just very easy to screw up implementation compared to an Amanero (or any USB device) - wouldn't suggest the ultimate implementation of a Pink Faun board to be in Windows either (or that an Amanero under Ubuntu 14.04 vs an I2S bridge in Windows, both unmodded, to be a fair or equitable comparison).  

 

At any rate I'd support reclocking/isolation in your DACs at least as an option, Clay, and it's well within your skills to develop a part. On the PDX L2 I had I'd replaced the Hiface for a time with an Amanero - a clear step up - then with an Acko kit providing isolation and reclocking (from an Amanero), which was a step up again. Develop a board, sell it as a cost-up option.

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Jermain

I have just updated the pcb for the Klein DAC II & I'm very happy with its performance at that  price point. In view of that I don't have any other changes planned for it.

However I am working on a new DAC only version of the Konverter which will incorporate any new digital enhancements I come up with.

 

Ricardo

thanks for the vote of confidence & encouragement. I really do enjoy a bit of R&D on new projects & the clock & isolater chip selection at the moment is pretty good so now might be a good time to investigate that area.

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1 hour ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Jermain

I have just updated the pcb for the Klein DAC II & I'm very happy with its performance at that  price point. In view of that I don't have any other changes planned for it.

However I am working on a new DAC only version of the Konverter which will incorporate any new digital enhancements I come up with.

 

Ricardo

thanks for the vote of confidence & encouragement. I really do enjoy a bit of R&D on new projects & the clock & isolater chip selection at the moment is pretty good so now might be a good time to investigate that area.

 

And fingers crossed it stays at the $2k mark :)

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3 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Jermain

I have just updated the pcb for the Klein DAC II & I'm very happy with its performance at that  price point. In view of that I don't have any other changes planned for it.

However I am working on a new DAC only version of the Konverter which will incorporate any new digital enhancements I come up with.

 

Very nice to hear. So if I understand correctly there will be an updated Klein DAC II (with the AK4497EQ?) and also a DAC only Konverter (with balanced out, Jensen transformers, OLED Display, and possible clock enhancements & 'galvanic isolation' of components)?

 

Any rough time frames in mind? I'll be paying close attention!

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How much is this beauty?

Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk

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