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steve u

Power Cables a "blind" test

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Can you replace your wall to power strip/ board cable with Odin so it feeds everything. That's what we did years ago with a mates Odin into my CJ CA200 and B&W 804s. Non blind test, 3 punters in the room and i was a cable skeptic running lamp cord. A month later I had the worst spend ratio ( system vs cables) in the country.

 

Does that old story serve as a suitable appetite whetter?

 

 

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1 hour ago, steve u said:

My guess was that it was Nordost Odin first and third change, lorad cable was the second change.

 

You might be just warming up.... but this is significantly different to the test that was suggested.

 

  • You rate the "change".   So for 3 listens, you will have 2 ratings
  • The rating is either "same", or "different"

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Of course, we could always measure frequency response, clipping power, peak current and noise in the amplifier with each power cord in place. I am not on either side of the fence.. Call me a true agnostic. But surely there must be some measurements that show some change in the amplifier as a result of the different cords.

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36 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

You might be just warming up.... but this is significantly different to the test that was suggested.

You may not yet be finished testing.

But   and I am not a Statistician, I would think  three changes involving two cable is not enough to draw any conclusions that would be statistically valid.

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Just now, EV Cali said:

You may not yet be finished testing.

But   and I am not a Statistician, I would think  three changes involving two cable is not enough to draw any conclusions that would be statistically valid.

 

And that is an issue why...it is not a scientific journal that is to be published...

It is one man's evaluation doin' it his way...

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4 minutes ago, Rob181 said:

 

And that is an issue why...it is not a scientific journal that is to be published...

It is one man's evaluation doin' it his way...

I realise the limitations of this test but it is being done in the full view of a Hi Fi forum with comments requested by the original poster

 

However I would love to hear any constructive suggestions that could be made to "easily" improve the process". 

 

 

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Let's just take it on face value. It is never going to comply with everyone's idea of what a genuine test should be. People on this and other forums even manage to argue about how DBT tests should be done. Then, if a test somehow is done properly, they argue about how statistically correct the results are from the test. It makes my small brain hurt. And it really makes me just want to go back to listening to my music through a stereo that was cobbled together using NO scientific methodology but which I find mostly very satisfying.

 

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11 minutes ago, Rob181 said:

It is one man's evaluation doin' it his way...

 

Suggestions were asked on how to improve the process.

 

If a process is used, and conclusions are drawn....  and the process does not support the conclusions ..... then it is certain that there will be critical comments pointing out that this is the case.

 

I assume this is the reason why suggestions were requested.

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2 hours ago, scumbag said:

I guess that is the crux of the question. 

 

Perhaps the crux of the question is the fact that the powercords being tested are those which are actually delivering the first power that the connected equipment is seeing?

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3 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

what component was the cable plugged into?

The cable was changed in and out of the CD player. Less down time and easier for lab assistant to reach.

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Of course, we could always measure frequency response, clipping power, peak current and noise in the amplifier with each power cord in place. I am not on either side of the fence.. Call me a true agnostic. But surely there must be some measurements that show some change in the amplifier as a result of the different cords.


... And phase, Rf noise, im distortion.....
or - trust your ears (if your wallet can afford to trust them).

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1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

You might be just warming up.... but this is significantly different to the test that was suggested.

 

  • You rate the "change".   So for 3 listens, you will have 2 ratings
  • The rating is either "same", or "different"

I originally was going to try and evaluate 4-5 cables.

The feedback and suggestions from the start of the thread, primarily ZB was to trial "best" cable against "entry level" cable, this was basically decided on price. If I could hear any difference continue on.

The assistant was asked to start with any cable and make changes after 30-40 minutes of playing. I sat there and made notes that only I would probably understand. This was done mainly because I thought it would be difficult to have an objective reference point and that is the problem with this kind of test. My ears are going to focus on things that I might have an issue with.

 

My abbreviated results were 1 and 3 were the same cable and 2 was the other cable. 

 

This took about 2 hours of focused listening and for me, wasn't easy. I wasn't drinking, I was tired and was taking notes.

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Steve u--- good on you for sticking your head above the Parapet on this score--but it is an old hoary chestnut that can only end in tears as have all the other attempts to show cause and effect of this over many forums and too many years.

 

Get out while you still can would be my advice :thumb:

 

Other VMV

 

Willco

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1 hour ago, scumbag said:

Of course, we could always measure frequency response, clipping power, peak current and noise in the amplifier with each power cord in place. I am not on either side of the fence.. Call me a true agnostic. But surely there must be some measurements that show some change in the amplifier as a result of the different cords.

 

Indeed.  This is the reason why people who design amplifiers (who measure these and other things) say that power cables generally have zero effect.

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To expand a little on the other cabling, there is a Qrt QX2 line conditioner, going to a Nordost QB8 pin power board. The pre, amp and CD player are all fed by this 8 pin board. The idea of the multiple cable test will be the different cables will be lines up in the QB8 and then swapped in and out of the CD player. The review period for each cable will be approximately 40 minutes.

The CD player was chosen because of ease of access for the assistant and the long start time of the valve pre, but mainly ease of access.

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9 minutes ago, steve u said:

I originally was going to try and evaluate 4-5 cables.

The feedback and suggestions from the start of the thread, primarily ZB was to trial "best" cable against "entry level" cable, this was basically decided on price. If I could hear any difference continue on.

The assistant was asked to start with any cable and make changes after 30-40 minutes of playing. I sat there and made notes that only I would probably understand. This was done mainly because I thought it would be difficult to have an objective reference point and that is the problem with this kind of test. My ears are going to focus on things that I might have an issue with.

 

My abbreviated results were 1 and 3 were the same cable and 2 was the other cable. 

 

This took about 2 hours of focused listening and for me, wasn't easy. I wasn't drinking, I was tired and was taking notes.

 

I see.

 

IMO use a "standard" cord (like one which comes for free in the box)  in place of the 'entry-level' to remove additional uncertainty.

 

As you can see it's going to be a total marathon to get to 10++ trials.      FWIW - I've done lots of testing both ways.

 

Longer testing is sometimes very helpful when trying to answer the question "do I like this".

 

If I am simply trying to answer the question "can I detect difference between A and B" .... then I find that faster switching drastically improves the reliability * ... and also using test signals crafted to highlight differences (such as pink noise, or clicks, etc.) drastically improves the results

 

* = Tested using trials specifically designed to investigate this.   ie.  using tests where there's a difference purposefully added to the A or B signal, which has a known audibility.    (but I was not aware of what this difference was, or that it was being tested)

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