Suggestions for a phono upgrade

[Mat-with-one-t]

Hi all.  I've been loving the vinyl more and more.  I've had the same setup since about 1997, when I bought all the stuff new, and I've been really happy with it all.

I am lucky to have been able to put together a new system, which is much more revealing than my other.  Currently running Stereoknight m100 tube monos balanced into W4S step-se pre and on to Osborn Epitomes.  I am currently auditioning a SS power amp that may suit the room better.  We'll see!  I have a digital front end now too.

The phono setup is a Pro-ject 6.1 with an ortofon mc10, via a Creek OBH-9se phono stage.

I am gradually picking up some higher quality pressings of some of my old faves.  I'm also listening to all my old Cure, Stones, Zep, Hendrix, Beatles, Purple, etc on vinyl - all sounding pretty great.

as my system is entirely balanced, I am also interested in a possible rewire of the arm to run a balanced signal right through.

So I'm imagining either:

1. A new phono upgrade throughout

2. Some component upgrades, such as the cart or phono stage

I'm interested as to where the best bang for buck would lie....

many thanks!

[thewaves]

Esoteric E03 + Kiseki Purple Heart: done.

[Mat-with-one-t]

I meant to add ...."without selling my house".

Yes, I'm well aware I could go down the road and buy Duc's phono stage, spend $3k on a cart and maybe a nice new TT for $10k, but the question was regarding an upgrade on what I have (within reason, and with best value).

Edited November 27, 2016 by Mat-with-one-t

[Mat-with-one-t]

Wow.  I probably need a hearing upgrade - awefully quiet around here.

Does anyone have an insight into upgrading Ortofon MC10 to an MC20 mk2, for example?

[Guest Hensa]

In light of the fact that the one suggestion so far was quickly shot down as too expensive, it would probably help to give an approximate budget for the upgrade.

 

I run my Benz Wood L2 balanced to a CEC PH-53 phono stage (same designer as the AQVOX balanced phono stage) which amplifies the output current rather than the output voltage and thus (don't ask me for the scientific explanation) eliminates the effect of the load impedance. It sounds exceptional and is very quiet. There aren't many balanced input phono stages around but there are a few that were discussed in an another thread a while back.

[Mat-with-one-t]

Thanks Hensa.  I hope I didn't appear too rude!  Clearly my setup is a maybe $2k tops one, and the "suggestion" was a $6.5k honk stage with a $3.5k cart.  Whilst technically true - this would be an upgrade - I had hoped my "best bang for buck" implied a modestly priced upgrade.  I perhaps should be more specific, but I would imagine if someone had a lazy $10k to trip over for an upgrade that didn't even include the actual turntable (which, I would assume would be a $5k+ job to justify the other components), then they wouldn't write such a request for ideas.  Or is it just me?

So, to clarify, I am thinking maybe a few 100 bucks on a cart, or maybe cabling, or maybe a phnostage in the sub $1k ish ballpark. 

One idea, for example, would be a simple upgrade from my MC10 to an mc20 or similar.

Thanks re Benz and CEC.  I seem to recall that phono stage was hard to find?

Thanks all.

[Guest Hensa]

All good, Mat - people have pretty thick skins around here![emoji3]

The CEC and Aqvox phono stages are pretty hard to find but will be well under $1K when they do. Very very good running balanced but strangely average in single ended mode.

Having had an MC10 a while ago, my suggestion for a significant upgrade would be a Hana EL at around $600 - I realise it's more than you stated for a cart but for $200 you're not going to get a better MC than the MC10 unless it's well used. The Hana EL is a stunner at its price point. The SL (and SH) is better again but at $900, maybe more than you'd want to spend.

Happy trails!


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[Mat-with-one-t]

Thanks!  I'll have a look into them!  Mat

[ophool]

Few years back another member was looking for a new cartridge and I loaned him one and he liked it so I offered him a loan of a phono stage to try - he liked that too and bought his own as a result.

Today he runs a manufacturer supported loan scheme and is a forum sponsor - you can read more about that here - or the executive summary - for the cost of return postage you can trial your choice of a range of phono stages in your own system.

You could do worse than give that some consideration prior to making a decision.

As to cartridges, many of us have our favourites and some that I have enjoyed that were less than $500 were the Denon DL-110, the Denon DL-103 and the Denon DL-301.  The AT-150MLX has also received much good press and is, I think, still sub $500.

 

[t_mike]

11 hours ago, ophool said:

Few years back another member was looking for a new cartridge and I loaned him one and he liked it so I offered him a loan of a phono stage to try - he liked that too and bought his own as a result.

Today he runs a manufacturer supported loan scheme and is a forum sponsor - you can read more about that here - or the executive summary - for the cost of return postage you can trial your choice of a range of phono stages in your own system.

You could do worse than give that some consideration prior to making a decision.

 

 

 

On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 7:44 PM, thewaves said:

Esoteric E03 + Kiseki Purple Heart: done.

 

 

I wonder how long that loan lasts?  

[dwbasement]

May be better upgrade to MC30 super rather than 20 in order to get a better SQ.
@Hensa
I was thinking getting the Hana SL in the future to replace my MC30 super mk2, do you think it would be an upgrade, downgrade or just different taste in terms of sound?
Cheers
Dennis

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[Guest Hensa]

May be better upgrade to MC30 super rather than 20 in order to get a better SQ.
/profile/109782-hensa/'>@Hensa
I was thinking getting the Hana SL in the future to replace my MC30 super mk2, do you think it would be an upgrade, downgrade or just different taste in terms of sound?
Cheers
Dennis

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Hi Dennis, I haven't heard the MC30 so I couldn't say how the SL would compare. In my own experience, I prefer the SH to the Benz Glider and Ace and would put it level with the Wood L2 which was double the price.

The other budget MC contender for me is the Zyx R50 Bloom (I'm using the Mk 1 version). Very engaging without being over-analytical and with a smidgen of warmth - Just a lovely presentation!


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[dwbasement]

Hi Dennis, I haven't heard the MC30 so I couldn't say how the SL would compare. In my own experience, I prefer the SH to the Benz Glider and Ace and would put it level with the Wood L2 which was double the price.

The other budget MC contender for me is the Zyx R50 Bloom (I'm using the Mk 1 version). Very engaging without being over-analytical and with a smidgen of warmth - Just a lovely presentation!


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Then what do you think between r50 vs hana sl? For classical and jazz...

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[Guest Hensa]

23 minutes ago, dwbasement said:

Then what do you think between r50 vs hana sl? For classical and jazz...

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For classical and jazz, I'd probably lean to the SL which offers a bit more detail and refinement. I wouldn't be unhappy with the Zyx either and from what I've read, the R50 Mk2 offers more detail than the original so might be worth an audition (if that's even possible). Feel free to drop by for a listen if anywhere near the Nth Shore - now on different turntables and phono stages, but both the Hana SH and Zyx R50 are set up and running.

 

Both @rossband @Happy are also familiar with the Hana SL and probably listen to more classical and jazz than I do so there comment about the SL may also be appreciated.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Hensa

[kelossus]

I run the Hana SL on my Linn LP12 through the Black Cube SEII.

 

The Black Cube SEII is fantastic phono stage and can be bought new for around $1300. Not much noise about them here in Australia but overseas they have been very well reviewed. If buying new in that price range it would be hard to beat. Michael Fremer reviewed a few phono stages in that price bracket and the SEII was a clear winner.

 

Very flexible loading options and a few subsonic filter options to.

 

The Hana SL is a beast also. My only comparison is a DL103R in a wooden body and the Hana stomps it. The Denon may have a little more bass weight but overall the Hana's presentation is wonderful. Nothing stands out, it is a very balanced cart.

 

 

[rossb]

The Hana SL is an excellent cartridge for classical and jazz. As Hensa and Kelossus have said, it is a very balanced cartridge, and sounds very musical. Highly recommended.

 

You could also consider the Benz Ace, which is another great cartridge at a similar price.

 

For phono stages, the Project Phono Box RS is an amazingly good phono stage, regardless of its relatively low price. I know of one being used in a very high end system using an extremely expensive turntable, and sounds fantastic.

 

Incidentally, I wouldn't bother re-wiring your arm - it wouldn't be worth the outlay. You would be better off getting a better arm on a new turntable, at the very least a Rega arm, which would justify the cost of re-wiring it.

Edited December 1, 2016 by rossb

[Mat-with-one-t]

If anyone has a Hana SL they're looking to offload, let me know.  Have done some reading as a result of the nice chatter here and interested!  mat

[SAVI Systems]

Hi there @Mat-with-one-t,

I would suggest looking at either the Ortofon 2M Bronze (later on you can buy the Shibata stylus from the Ortofon Black I believe). 

Personally though, I found the Audio Technica AT150 is a great, dynamic sound that I really enjoy on 80's. 90's pop and rock. the top end is really sparkly and airy and the bottom end tight. Obviously there is also the AT OC9mk3 - a classic with good reason.

 

Also, having spent a fair bit of time appraising some phono stages, I enjoyed the Moon 110LP, but have currently settled on the Primare R32 - the Primare is very well priced in Australia compared to EU and USA and in my set-up really steps everything up a notch over the Moon, NAD, Cambridge, Sony ES TAFA777es Amp and an old top of the range Sansui receiver I have. The Primare is DC coupled so the bottom end is really deep, tight and controlled - it has got some high praise from the UK press too.

 

I do find the Ortofons seem to exaggerate record noise a little, but track well. Where as the AT's seem to have far less surface noise for some reason. The Ortofons do sound great and dynamic in the lower mids and mids however.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Simon Pressman
Correcting spelling and adding other phono stages I have used

[Mat-with-one-t]

Thank mate!!

[Muad Dib]

+1 for the Primare R32. If you're patient they pop up here from time to time.

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[MattyW]

I run the Hana SL on my Linn LP12 through the Black Cube SEII.

 

The Black Cube SEII is fantastic phono stage and can be bought new for around $1300. Not much noise about them here in Australia but overseas they have been very well reviewed. If buying new in that price range it would be hard to beat. Michael Fremer reviewed a few phono stages in that price bracket and the SEII was a clear winner.

 

Very flexible loading options and a few subsonic filter options to.

 

The Hana SL is a beast also. My only comparison is a DL103R in a wooden body and the Hana stomps it. The Denon may have a little more bass weight but overall the Hana's presentation is wonderful. Nothing stands out, it is a very balanced cart.

 

 

Yes, the Denon needs a stylus upgrade and a better diamond profile to compare favorably, plus it seems rather arm dependent. On the other hand, the Hana does literally everything well so it's a more balanced cart overall.... I think the Hana is the least risky purchase as it seems quite unfussy about which arm if is run in.

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