Cabling - How much is too much?

[Guest rmpfyf]

46 minutes ago, Upfront said:

What WAPs do you recommend for residential mate?

 

This http://shop.duxtel.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=391 - particularly if you're running a Mikrotik routerboard (either 2011 or 3011 series). 

 

They're discreet, PoE, they come in black, there's a dual-band version available (costs double), they support more SSIDs than you'll ever need. With a routerboard running the home they're insanely easy to manage too, and rock-solid. <$70 for the single-band or double that for the dual-band. Plus you can mix and match other kit from the same make if you need something more tailored - f'rinstance the last client wants WiFi outdoor over a large-ish property, he's looking at an outdoor WAP at higher power to augment his 3x indoor WAPs (specifically http://shop.duxtel.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=322). Essentially one of the routerboards, as many WAPs as you need and a decent switch/PoE injector combo and you're away. You can even remote manage if you like. Above all a complete system is very reasonably priced. 

 

Negatives? You'll be writing your own firewall, though their forums provide excellent examples and support, and at worst if you need to pay someone for support locally Duxtel is extremely good. 

 

An honest alternative is to use Apple's kit (e.g. the Airport Express in multiples) though IMHO it's expensive, not very fast as a repeater setup and not nearly as configurable. It is easy to run, however. 

 

If you're feeling like something different and right now want a Black Friday deal, you could also try Eero (https://eero.com/). Never tried it but those who have are happy. This is more targeted at people doing their own retrofits rather than 'I'm building a house' or 'the sparky's coming over to do my data system properly'. Accordingly it's a plug-and-play price (e.g. high-ish).

 

Somewhere in the middle there's people using DD-WRT routers or really just any wireless router with DHCP disabled, though not everything creates a bridged network nicely, so you see people ending up with multiple home networks - a bit messy IMHO, not really a 'finished job'.

[Silent Screamer]

Lighting has been pretty well decided on thanks to Masters having a 90% off sale on LED lights in the early days of closing. Would be nice if they could be easily computer controlled and monitored...

Edited November 24, 2016 by Silent Screamer

[Guest rmpfyf]

Bloody hell! Well done (downlights!)

 

You'll be able to upgrade these to control in future with a different driver, likely one with a Zigbee radio. 

 

e.g. http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/products/led/led-lighting-driver-tunes-zigbee-control-2015-06/

http://www.globalsources.com/si/AS/Zhuhai-Shengchang/6008834028154/pdtl/LED-downlight-driver/1136237281.htm

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/2015/04/deco-lighting-offers-zigbee-based-led-driver-for-its-troffer-fixtures.html

http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lighting-controls/luminaire-based-systems/actilume-wireless

Others (e.g. LG etc)

 

Naturally you'll want drivers that are a bit smaller in capacity for home use, but you get the idea.

[Silent Screamer]

Is it possible to control multiple lights with the one driver? Since the HT room is so big I will have quite a number of LED lights in there i.e. 9 or 12 running off the one light switch. Fairly sure all of the lights I bought were dimmable. I bought 56 lights since they were only ~$4 each instead of $40.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Silent Screamer

[Guest rmpfyf]

(Still getting over your getting multiple lights at $4 each... if my wife sees your post she'll crucify me)

 

Such drivers do exist, though whether or not you could use a commercial-fixture-power LED driver (e.g. a 40W unit) for a bunch of residential units wired in parallel, I'm not sure. That's one for the manufacturers. Would be worth asking. 

 

Even if you have 200+ drivers that are smart enabled, you can use them in groups no problem. If Zigbee (for the sake of argument) they've each an "ID" and in setting up you can do what you like with them.

 

The lights themselves are inherently dimmable, the dimming function is actually built into the driver.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by rmpfyf

[Silent Screamer]

57 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

(Still getting over your getting multiple lights at $4 each... if my wife sees your post she'll crucify me)

 

Let's just say that I probably walked out the store with 90% of the better quality lights on offer. There were cheaper ones there but since they were so heavily discounted I just went mad. Even if I don't use them all I am sure I can eBay them for what I paid.

 

I called my nephew who is a sparky after I left the store and he said grab what you can for me, I said too late I have most of them.

 

57 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

Such drivers do exist, though whether or not you could use a commercial-fixture-power LED driver (e.g. a 40W unit) for a bunch of residential units wired in parallel, I'm not sure. That's one for the manufacturers. Would be worth asking. 

 

That was along the lines of what I was thinking.

 

57 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

Even if you have 200+ drivers that are smart enabled, you can use them in groups no problem. If Zigbee (for the sake of argument) they've each an "ID" and in setting up you can do what you like with them.

 

Even though the other way may be cheaper this would allow multiple different mood / setting options for the room. Considering the HT room will be in the center of the house with little natural light coming in, it might be nice to have an all on option for working on speakers etc, and then just be able to have a couple on dimly at the back for watching a movie.

 

57 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

The lights themselves are inherently dimmable, the dimming function is actually built into the driver.

 

All the ones I grabbed were dimmable whereas the cheaper ones weren't.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Silent Screamer

[Silent Screamer]

58 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

(Still getting over your getting multiple lights at $4 each... if my wife sees your post she'll crucify me)

 

hehehe don't mention to her I got packets of 10 spare LED bulbs for $4 a box (I got 12 boxes)

[Guest rmpfyf]

Fook mi, that's exceptional. That photo's worth a lot of LEDs

 

A friend runs a home IoT business, they've got Zigbee LED drivers and a controller... I'll ask her what it's worth and PM you if you like.

[Silent Screamer]

13 hours ago, rmpfyf said:

Fook mi, that's exceptional. That photo's worth a lot of LEDs

 

A friend runs a home IoT business, they've got Zigbee LED drivers and a controller... I'll ask her what it's worth and PM you if you like.

 

Please do.

[Silent Screamer]

On ?24?/?11?/?2016 at 3:28 PM, rmpfyf said:

Bloody hell! Well done (downlights!)

 

You'll be able to upgrade these to control in future with a different driver, likely one with a Zigbee radio. 

 

e.g. http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/products/led/led-lighting-driver-tunes-zigbee-control-2015-06/

http://www.globalsources.com/si/AS/Zhuhai-Shengchang/6008834028154/pdtl/LED-downlight-driver/1136237281.htm

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/2015/04/deco-lighting-offers-zigbee-based-led-driver-for-its-troffer-fixtures.html

http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lighting-controls/luminaire-based-systems/actilume-wireless

Others (e.g. LG etc)

 

Naturally you'll want drivers that are a bit smaller in capacity for home use, but you get the idea.

 

Been giving a bit more thought to this idea and wonder if it would be possible to use some kind of simple wired bus system instead of wireless. Just wireless would make it hard to integrate with any programs I might want to write myself. Ideally I would like to have one computer run the whole house with voice and phone interface. Trying to connect to other 3rd party apps can be a nightmare if they don't want to share protocols.

 

I have a Global Cache GC-100 which seems like a fairly decent system to build onto and they seem to do numerous attachments for lights and security.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Silent Screamer

[Guest rmpfyf]

Could do, this is where lighting-over-Ethernet has merit IMHO. It's a shame the Redwood system is so expensive; I've seen it working and it's epic. 

 

The wireless stuff works well if a mesh network (e.g. Zigbee). Initial response from my contact is a lack of will to sell to individuals, I've written back to ask about distributors. The nice thing about the Zigbee standard is that not only is the wireless standardised, but to a degree the functionality too. 

[luke352]

On ?24?/?11?/?2016 at 4:01 PM, Silent Screamer said:

Is it possible to control multiple lights with the one driver? Since the HT room is so big I will have quite a number of LED lights in there i.e. 9 or 12 running off the one light switch. Fairly sure all of the lights I bought were dimmable. I bought 56 lights since they were only ~$4 each instead of $40.

 

 

Clipsal now have a new range called the Iconic range and one of the features is dimmable switches with lighting control built in which can be controlled via their app using Bluetooth.  Can also be connected to a PIR sensor with programmed response during certain times think you can even do a slow ramp so you don't get blinded walking down the hall at night.  You can also link multiple switches together.  I'm sure it may not be quite as flexible as a full blown dedicated lighting control product but looks like it will do everything a residential user would need, also cheaper than using a dedicated lighting controller.

[luke352]

For our build coming up in May I'm going to with a Unifi/Ubiquiti Security Gateway, 24 port PoE switch, Cat6 to all rooms and living areas, Speaker cable to all rooms, and x2 Unifi AC Lite WAP's.   The advise I've received from multiple people is essentially anything that is fixed run Ethernet to it.  It takes the load off the Wifi which when you think of the modern home it may have 2 to 4 laptops, 2 to 4 tablets, 2 to 4 phones, AV and music streaming services, Gaming consoles, etc.. You are very quickly putting a lot of load on your Wifi system. 

 

For multiroom audio I went through several options, Sonos ( I have some already), Heos, Yamaha MusicCast, matrix multizone amp combined with a Control4 system, and even a large multizone amp using a half a dozen Chromecast or Dayton HiFly's as the source.  Our setup was going to be ceiling speakers in all the bedrooms and entertaining areas, main living room would have a 5.1 setup with ceiling speakers for the rears.  So I needed a way to power all this.  My thought was the main 5.1 is to use a 7.1 AV receiver and use the last two channels as a separate zone (most have this feature) for the outdoor area and then everything else off some sort of multiroom control setup such as Control 4 but even a basic Control 4 setup is a few grand before you have even get around to controlling anything such as having to buy a multizone amp or several Sonos or similar connect amps.

 

So then I looked at using Sonos Connect amps in the other rooms, but this left me using two different apps and buying multiple connect amps isn't exactly a cheap endeavour either.

 

So then I was looking at a multizone amp and using probably 6 Chromecast or Dayton Hifly (the daytons have an Ethernet port taking load off your wifi) this is by far the cheapest solution but the apps in both cases are a bit buggy and limited and you still need a separate app or controller if you want to run the zones off the AV receiver.

 

Having gone through the options with my wife she made it clear she want to use one app that's it!  Which to keep cost reasonable left me with Denon Heos or Yamaha Musiccast

 

In the end I've decided on going all Yamaha, Yamaha AV receiver and several Yamaha WXA-50 musiccast amps and will probably use Yamaha ceiling speakers in most areas except the rears in the 5.1 setup.  I preferred the look of the Yamaha app and it is also a bit cheaper than the equivalent Denon devices.   All the WXA-50's will be kept in the same place as the network equipment.  The 5.1 setup will be fully hidden behind grills in custom joinery, all the items such as DVD players, foxtel, AV receiver will be hidden away with IR repeater used to control them.   I was considering wall plate speakers but the inability to actually listen to any put me off them, so instead I'll be using bookshelf speakers initially but the spaces I'm having built for the speakers will be able to accommodate a full size tower for future upgrades.  I realise this isn't ideal but there is no way my wife was going to have a set of speakers out on display anywhere in her house.  The other day I mentioned I was going to build a sub enclosure and get it finished in gloss black or white and I'd have the driver pointing down to keep it out of site and I would place it in the corner, she was not happy.  So now that is getting put in the custom joinery as well. apparently I didn't realise exactly how offensive a black or white box would be within her space. 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by luke352