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Keith_W

My Opinionated Proac D38 Review (long!)

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Guest JohnA

Thanks Amfibius

I believe these N802 were the ones you auditioned - still for sale at Tivoli at $15995 ($3K off rrp for N802)

They look similar but do not have the diamond tweeter and a few other minor upgrades I understand.

http://www.bwspeakers.com/downloadFile/spe...0802%20specs%22

http://www.tivolihifi.com.au/specials.htm

I see there are some Wilson Audio Sophias at same price. Would love to hear them, as I was mighty impressed with the larger Wilsons - best I have ever experienced (even if rather ugly)

[/b]

spot on, for $15000 they would be the N802's as the 802D (diamond) are $22000

i believe it was mainly the tweeter and x-over changes between the 2, i could be wrong however

I think my review should be taken with a pinch of salt. I did not try ANY other music apart from the type of music I listen to. As we all know, speakers are very music dependent and my opinions only reflect my particular biases and preferences in music. I suspect that many of you are already thinking this but are too polite to say it :rolleyes:

[/b]

and thats the whole point in auditioning speakers, to hear them with the music you enjoy, not the cd's the salesmen have on hand to make them sound great.

As you said at the start of your review, this is based on your experiance and listening tests.

Its got nothing to do with us been polite, and i'm sure no one here will run out and purchase the same equipment based on your review alone, well if they did then maybe you could ask for a comission :biggrin:

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Thanks for your responses everyone.

Norpus sent me a PM asking me if I listened to the 802D's or the N802's. I have mentioned elsewhere that these speakers were $15,000 at Tivoli Hi-Fi, and Norpus pointed out that at the price these are more likely N802's. To be honest I really do not remember ... I just remember that they were B&W 802's! I wasn't aware that there was a difference. I do remember that they had the diamond dome tweeter though. So yeah, they might be the N802's.

terry I have never tried the ProAc's with anything other than the Cary's and my Yamaha receiver which I hooked up out of curiosity. I think that the Yamaha RX-V1600 is capable of 120W / channel output in Class AB. So easily double the rated power of the Cary. The Cary's still sounded more powerful with much better bass than the Yamaha. If someone is willing to bring over a power amplifier we could experiment to see what happens with powerful solid state amplification.

I think my review should be taken with a pinch of salt. I did not try ANY other music apart from the type of music I listen to. As we all know, speakers are very music dependent and my opinions only reflect my particular biases and preferences in music. I suspect that many of you are already thinking this but are too polite to say it :rolleyes:

[/b]

Well done Amfibius, great analysis. Entertaining too.

I have done some speaker evaluationsi the near and recent past (with different musical preferences to yours) and interestingly came up with the same impressions as you for the speakers that I listened to (the Dynaudios, ProAcs, B&W 802 plus the Wilson Audio Sophia (Mk 1)).

I haven't bought anything yet and have started the rounds again listening to local manufacturers, starting with the Big Reds from Legend Acoustics. During that demo and subsequent emails with the designer (Dr Rob Crawford) it struck me that I wasn't after accuracy or true hi fidelity, I was after my definition of what music sounds like to my ears and in my head.

A nice touch to mention the good work the dealers did assisting with your purchase. Gives us buyers confidence to work with them all going forward.

Thanks again and happy listening!

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Well done Amfibius, great analysis. Entertaining too.

I have done some speaker evaluationsi the near and recent past (with different musical preferences to yours) and interestingly came up with the same impressions as you for the speakers that I listened to (the Dynaudios, ProAcs, B&W 802 plus the Wilson Audio Sophia (Mk 1)).

I haven't bought anything yet and have started the rounds again listening to local manufacturers, starting with the Big Reds from Legend Acoustics. During that demo and subsequent emails with the designer (Dr Rob Crawford) it struck me that I wasn't after accuracy or true hi fidelity, I was after my definition of what music sounds like to my ears and in my head.

A nice touch to mention the good work the dealers did assisting with your purchase. Gives us buyers confidence to work with them all going forward.

Thanks again and happy listening!

[/b]

Interesting to read that some people are after a little coloration. I guess all speakers have some coloration or they would all sound the same.

Wadiaman, do you intend on listening to any other aussie speakers? Pehaps Osborn Grand Monuments, Aslan Austals or the Equinox Galaxy's when they are completed?

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hi wadia man

don't the big reds run the deqx? If so dial in exactly as much inaccuracy as you want when you want!! Then go back to accurate. Wonder in the long run what the preference will be.

Plus what drizt said

lots of love

terry

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Interesting to read that some people are after a little coloration. I guess all speakers have some coloration or they would all sound the same.

Wadiaman, do you intend on listening to any other aussie speakers? Pehaps Osborn Grand Monuments, Aslan Austals or the Equinox Galaxy's when they are completed?

[/b]

Apart from the price of those mentioned, I am somewhat restricted by the physical placement optins in my (albeit) large room and would be worried that the Grand Monument or Galaxy would be just too physically imposing. I do want to keep the cost under $20K, but would at least like to listen to the Whatmough Paragons as well.

Having never heard of Aslan Acoustics until finding Mondie's review yesterday, I must admit to being very tempted by the description of the Australis. The concept of powered stereo subs overcomes the weakness of my tube amp in bass depth and speed, retain the warm mid range, I get to keep the ribbon tweeter smoothess that I am used to and overall get a fuller sound for some of the cues and atmosphere you give up with bookshelf speakers in a large open space. And they look stunning!

hi wadia man

don't the big reds run the deqx? If so dial in exactly as much inaccuracy as you want when you want!! Then go back to accurate. Wonder in the long run what the preference will be.

Plus what drizt said

lots of love

terry

[/b]

Hi Terry,

Yep, the Big Reds did run through the DEQX. For a simple fellow like myself, talk about complicated! I would probably prefer to buy something straight out that I like, then after getting used to the sound and nuances, add on the DEQX for room equalisation rather than tonal colorations.

While I like the concept of the Big Reds, the sound (perhaps it was the Chord solid state electronics) just didn't make my feet tap. Wasn't as involving as I prefer my 'house sound' to be.

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Good review Amfibius :wink: Could you tell me what you reckon about the B&W 701 ?[/b]

701's? Don't know ... I think I was listening to the 703's. But having said that, I have already been caught out by Norpus for reviewing the wrong speaker so I won't make the same mistake again! The "other" B&W's I listened to were much of the same, but with poorer imaging, a less substantial speaker cabinet, and less bass.

If you like the B&W house sound the 703's were pretty good. But I never quite got into that kind of sound, so YMMV.

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Guest JohnA

Good review Amfibius :wink: Could you tell me what you reckon about the B&W 701 ?

Thanks

[/b]

you might have meant 703 as there is no 701.

They are nowere in he same league as the 802D's but if i were to chose between the 703 or the 804 i would take the 703 which i did.

The only similarities between the 703 and 802 is the FST driver, but then thats different as well. The 802 and above use the marlin head to mount the fst midrange, which supposidly makes it even better.

the difference between the 703 and 804 is the cabinet, different woofers (same size) and x-over design, sound wise though i couldn't tell them apart so chose the 703.

The other problem with the 703 is if you are also going to use them for HT, is to find a matching centre. in the 700 series the is no centre speaker with the fst driver, so you need to move up to the 800 series centre or fight like a dog to get a 3rd 703 to use as centre, which is what i did.

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Oppss ! I meant 703, sorry. :blush: Thanks John for your opinion. I'd like to buy a pair of speakers in the 703s price category (or less) and I still can't make up my mind on what to buy. I listen to a lot of jazz and classical music. I know this is a bit generic but I'd appreciate it if someone could give me a bit of advice.

Thanks

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Guest alebonau

Oppss ! I meant 703, sorry. :blush: Thanks John for your opinion. I'd like to buy a pair of speakers in the 703s price category (or less) and I still can't make up my mind on what to buy. I listen to a lot of jazz and classical music. I know this is a bit generic but I'd appreciate it if someone could give me a bit of advice.

Thanks

[/b]

in the 703's price theres the pmc fb1 floorstander, well worth considering

legend kantu, castle howard, sonus faber concerto domus, epos m22, gold series monitor audio, maybe even checkout the ambience ribbons etc. thers quite a few options really. check out soem of the specialist stores in yoru area. what sort of source and amps you runnign or considering ?

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For $5100 you could have a set of Osborn Eclipse Reference. -> Click here

These are the speakers I am going to look at in 12 months time....

Worth a listen thats for sure.

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Guest JohnA

Oppss ! I meant 703, sorry. :blush: Thanks John for your opinion. I'd like to buy a pair of speakers in the 703s price category (or less) and I still can't make up my mind on what to buy. I listen to a lot of jazz and classical music. I know this is a bit generic but I'd appreciate it if someone could give me a bit of advice.

Thanks

[/b]

There is alot out there in that price range as Al mentioned.

Its a personal preferance and only you can realy make that descision.

Do you already have amps and cd players?

If so look at as many speakers in your price range as you can and audition them with your own cd's.

Then when you pick a few you realy like, ask the dealer if you can bring your amp and cd player in for another audition, this way you can hear what they perfrom like with your own equipment.

I don't listen to classical music, but do listen to jazz and i think it sound wonderfull on the 703's but i am biased, others do not like the sound of B&W

For $5100 you could have a set of Osborn Eclipse Reference. -> Click here

These are the speakers I am going to look at in 12 months time....

Worth a listen thats for sure.

[/b]

are you sure you're not getting a % of all sales made by Greg?

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are you sure you're not getting a % of all sales made by Greg?

[/b]

I wish...

Just trying to put forth a alternative suggestion speaker to audition. Definately should listen to as many speakers as he can bear.

*do people really think I get a cut?*

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The PMC that Alebonau suggested is a very good speaker, but those were designed as monitors. A monitor has a very flat response, and is totally accurate. They were designed for recording engineers to evaluate the sound in the studio. However, when I listened to them, I found that the soundstage was too far forward. Excitement was also lacking. The overall sound was not to my taste. You might like them though.

The B&W 703 was also a very good speaker. It didn't have enough bass for my taste and it didn't image as well as its bigger brother which I listened to. Also, it's got that B&W house sound. Like I said in my review, it's very neutral with no obvious faults. But (like I said) the B&W sound does not excite me. It's a very competent speaker, something that will make you very happy if you like that kind of sound.

If you are a classical man, you should consider the ProAc Response 1SC. This is an updated design of the classic ProAc Response 1, a speaker I heard when I was in uni and formed a lasting impression since. Even though these things are tiny and unimpressive looking bookshelf speakers, the imaging and frequency response is incredible. I am sure that these things will actually image better than my speakers. As the size would suggest, they lack true bass extension. Instead, like most ProAcs, they rely on a slight bump in the midbass to give the impression of low bass. But this is done so naturally and so smoothly that you don't notice it until you see the frequency response curve. Put these speakers on a sturdy stand, and pair them with a pair of valve amps, and the combination would really something to envy. Here are a couple of reviews - Stereophile, and @udiophilia.

You would be more than welcome to have a listen to my system when I am next in town, perhaps next weekend. I'm a classical man too :wacko:

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Guest JohnA

The B&W 703 was also a very good speaker. It didn't have enough bass for my taste and it didn't image as well as its bigger brother which I listened to. Also, it's got that B&W house sound. Like I said in my review, it's very neutral with no obvious faults. But (like I said) the B&W sound does not excite me. It's a very competent speaker, something that will make you very happy if you like that kind of sound.

[/b]

The 703 doesn't have a bigger brother

in the 700 series there is

705 bookshelves

704 2.5 way, tweeter mid same as the 705 and single woofer

703 3 way, tweet, FST mid like the 800 series 2 x woofers

from the 703 you then need to move up to the 800 series

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