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iMac pro release 28/10/16


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8 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

 

I did say that unless you are a major account and have rewritten that sales agreement to load any OS on I can see they will make an acception.  For the average guy on the street the standard written warranty stands!

That arguement on data loss has no merit in this day and age.  As someone who works for a hardware support where software is loaded nearly all hardware support organisations will tell there clientele and have it in writing that they are responsible for the data they load on that hardware and will not accept any responsibilities for its loss or handling.  I doubt any organisation these days will allow only one individual to access $billions on data and not securely back it up!   Let's say that that was the case, and you are the only one with that unique data, you'd be silly if you didn't back it up on another drive and yes  if you're that silly than its no brainer to smash that Surface Pro to physically access that SSD.  Either way whether it's Apple or MS neither will cover that on warranty.

 

I question the whole loss of data on two fronts. One who in this day and age doesn't back up if have such mission critical millions of dollars worth on there? I myself have two systems myself.

 

additionally I am yet to see evidence that this new MacBook Pro is any different to previous machines that data is accessible  even if machine is stone cold dead. And non intrusively :)

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43 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

@:) al

my son just put a full deposit on a top of the line over the counter 15" MacBook Pro..... $3750....

he got that price because he also bought a Canon 5iv of JB in the city...don't think you can beat that price for bricks and mortar.

 

Wow that's a very decent price ! For what you get. What is the top spec over counter ?

 

Not that getting one, but i am still confused between the 13" and 15 though in that appears the 13 can take the fastest processor however the 15 obviously can take better graphics, more ram larger SSD

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8 hours ago, :) al said:

 

I question the whole loss of data on two fronts. One who in this day and age doesn't back up if have such mission critical millions of dollars worth on there? I myself have two systems myself.

 

additionally I am yet to see evidence that this new MacBook Pro is any different to previous machines that data is accessible  even if machine is stone cold dead. And non intrusively :)

If you're referring to target mode, it relies on the computer powering up and partly working. If power's gone: no target mode. You'd also be surprised how many people don't back up, or check that their backups are working.

Edited by Eggcup The Daft
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2 hours ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

If you're referring to target mode, it relies on the computer powering up and partly working. If power's gone: no target mode. You'd also be surprised how many people don't back up, or check that their backups are working.

 

Doesn't need to boot properly or anything. Mine was unusable, apart from power to it would t boot. and the data could be looked at.

 

id suggest if won't power then the Genius Bar guy first step would be to get it to power.

 

in any case should be backing up in the first place. If don't back up data you are basically leaving yourself right the way open. Even ssd drives can just go poop and nothing can be recorded off them no matter computer is working or not. If data is so important there are so many ways of backing up. From simple manual ways to clouds to time capsules etc. as mentioned I myself use two means of backup to fail safe.

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22 minutes ago, :) al said:

 

Doesn't need to boot properly or anything. Mine was unusable, apart from power to it would t boot. and the data could be looked at.

 

id suggest if won't power then the Genius Bar guy first step would be to get it to power.

 

in any case should be backing up in the first place. If don't back up data you are basically leaving yourself right the way open. Even ssd drives can just go poop and nothing can be recorded off them no matter computer is working or not. If data is so important there are so many ways of backing up. From simple manual ways to clouds to time capsules etc. as mentioned I myself use two means of backup to fail safe.

 

 

2 hours ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

If you're referring to target mode, it relies on the computer powering up and partly working. If power's gone: no target mode. You'd also be surprised how many people don't back up, or check

that their backups are working.

 

Those who don't back up are ones who obviously don't care about losing there data!  No excuse really when the 1st thing you learn from the word go with computers is backing up work!  

Storage is way cheaper at today's rates too.  A cheap WD 2TB USB3.0 is around the $140.  That will back up anything, can't see the average using more than this!   My son backs up his stuff on 3 of these drives and left one at his Grandmothers place in Clayton for safety 50km on the other side of Melb.  No need for raid or sofisticated servers that has to be on 24/7.  All are on exfat so if the need to get data of WIN machine its there!   I have several of these drives too.

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4 hours ago, :) al said:

 

Wow that's a very decent price ! For what you get. What is the top spec over counter ?

 

Not that getting one, but i am still confused between the 13" and 15 though in that appears the 13 can take the fastest processor however the 15 obviously can take better graphics, more ram larger SSD

 

http://www.apple.com/au/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MLH42X/A&step=config#

 

This is what you get on the top of the line over the counter 15" MacBook Pro.

I think you'll find that the 13" are all dual core will the 15" gets into quad core as standard.

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Ah that makes sense if the 13s are dual vs quads in the 15s. Nice ! He must be pretty pleased :)

 

ps good article below on the move by Apple to USB-C

 

https://medium.com/@ageitgey/the-new-macbook-pro-is-kind-of-great-for-hackers-64c1c577a4d2#.jp3ihtqqc

 

"The new MacBook Pro is kind of great for hackers

A million hot takes have been posted about how the late-2016 MacBook Pro with USB-C is the undeniable proof that Apple doesn’t care about developers anymore. They took away all the ports! No Esc key! It’s just a more expensive MacBook Air!

But in some ways, the new MacBook Pro is the most techy and expandable laptop Apple has ever made. They are trusting their pro users to wade into murky USB-C waters in search of the holy grail of a universal, open standard for moving data and power between devices.

I’m not here to change your mind about the MacBook Pro. Yes, it’s probably too expensive and more RAM is better than less RAM. But everyone posting complaints without actually using a MBP for a few weeks is missing out on all the clever things you can do because it is built on USB-C. Over the past week or two with a new MacBook Pro (15in, 2.9ghz, TouchBar), I’ve been constantly surprised with how USB-C makes new things possible. It’s a kind of a hacker’s dream."

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11 hours ago, :) al said:

additionally I am yet to see evidence that this new MacBook Pro is any different to previous machines that data is accessible  even if machine is stone cold dead. And non intrusively :)

 

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Touch+Bar+Teardown/73480#s147969

Edited by davewantsmoore
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1 hour ago, :) al said:

Doesn't need to boot properly or anything. Mine was unusable, apart from power to it would t boot. and the data could be looked at.

 

Target disk mode requires that nearly all of the main bits on the logic board are working  (eg. CPU, RAM, GPU, and other controllers).

 

However, I do agree on the point about backups.   99.999% of cases of "OMG I lost my data", is a variant of  "you could have, should have backed up that data".

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Guest Eggcup The Daft

My sister used to work in IT for the local health authority. One of the first things she did was check if the tape backup was working. Sure, her predecessor had religiously run the backup routine, changed the tapes when alerted, kept everything in order... but nothing was ever written to the tape. I think it's the only time in her entire life when she panicked...

 

The modern equivalent of this is not checking that your TimeMachine or equivalent is actually backing up. I've seen several people who have been plugging in their backup drive every day on their laptops, but the last completed incremental backup turns out to be from six months ago and "paused".

 

If anybody reads this who doesn't check their automatic backups are actually happening... do it. You may get a shock.

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, :) al said:

Ah that makes sense if the 13s are dual vs quads in the 15s. Nice ! He must be pretty pleased :)

 

ps good article below on the move by Apple to USB-C

 

https://medium.com/@ageitgey/the-new-macbook-pro-is-kind-of-great-for-hackers-64c1c577a4d2#.jp3ihtqqc

 

"The new MacBook Pro is kind of great for hackers

A million hot takes have been posted about how the late-2016 MacBook Pro with USB-C is the undeniable proof that Apple doesn’t care about developers anymore. They took away all the ports! No Esc key! It’s just a more expensive MacBook Air!

But in some ways, the new MacBook Pro is the most techy and expandable laptop Apple has ever made. They are trusting their pro users to wade into murky USB-C waters in search of the holy grail of a universal, open standard for moving data and power between devices.

I’m not here to change your mind about the MacBook Pro. Yes, it’s probably too expensive and more RAM is better than less RAM. But everyone posting complaints without actually using a MBP for a few weeks is missing out on all the clever things you can do because it is built on USB-C. Over the past week or two with a new MacBook Pro (15in, 2.9ghz, TouchBar), I’ve been constantly surprised with how USB-C makes new things possible. It’s a kind of a hacker’s dream."

Yes. USB-C is a good thing and in time we will all thank Apple for their development effort with it.

 

I'll still miss MagSafe though. Any lead I can trip over safely...

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31 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

My sister used to work in IT for the local health authority. One of the first things she did was check if the tape backup was working. Sure, her predecessor had religiously run the backup routine, changed the tapes when alerted, kept everything in order... but nothing was ever written to the tape. I think it's the only time in her entire life when she panicked...

 

The modern equivalent of this is not checking that your TimeMachine or equivalent is actually backing up. I've seen several people who have been plugging in their backup drive every day on their laptops, but the last completed incremental backup turns out to be from six months ago and "paused".

 

If anybody reads this who doesn't check their automatic backups are actually happening... do it. You may get a shock.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, check for failures.....

 

i do stocktake for the parts I carry in the van, it has to less than 2% variance.  Start up a Lenovo laptop, open MS excel, connect a USB barcode scanner on the end.  As you scan you watched the P/N gets entered in on every line of the spreadsheet.  Scan the wrong code and sometimes there are 2 bar codes to one part and only one is correct!  Scan that in and you could be out $3K.   What's worst is that you have to scan and visually watch the screen as sometimes the it scans into the wrong line!  Not only that some strange reason it's case sensitive, and as they process for variance all these come up and you are out $XXXX.  Don't you love outdated systems you have to follow!   Then once the variance is approved and if it isn't correct the system sends me the ones I didn't count and sometimes I ended up with 2x the quantity.  OK for parts that cost a few dollars, no one look at those but stuff that in the thousands are hard to justified!   

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Guest Eggcup The Daft

They have ports. You just need new dongles or adaptors. Having said that, you can already get superior and useable USB-C multiple adaptors and docks, and the changeover has barely started.

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1 hour ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

My sister used to work in IT for the local health authority. One of the first things she did was check if the tape backup was working. Sure, her predecessor had religiously run the backup routine, changed the tapes when alerted, kept everything in order... but nothing was ever written to the tape. I think it's the only time in her entire life when she panicked...

 

The modern equivalent of this is not checking that your TimeMachine or equivalent is actually backing up. I've seen several people who have been plugging in their backup drive every day on their laptops, but the last completed incremental backup turns out to be from six months ago and "paused".

 

If anybody reads this who doesn't check their automatic backups are actually happening... do it. You may get a shock.

 

 

 

 

 

Never just rely on a time machine why I do a separate back :). Something I learnt too !

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1 hour ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

Yes. USB-C is a good thing and in time we will all thank Apple for their development effort with it.

 

I'll still miss MagSafe though. Any lead I can trip over safely...

 

Yep I will miss mag safe!

 

by the time switch over to the new macs we'll only know one USB !

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  • 2 weeks later...

It seems to me the "hacker" article is being a bit dishonest on a couple of fronts.

 

"I can plug my phone into my MacBook Pro charger and it works perfectly. Now I only need to bring one power cable to the café instead of two and I can charge my computer or my phone interchangeably. This is so nice!"

 

Yes, but only if you bring the large laptop charger. Plus, you'd have to be a dimwit to not have realised yet that you can charge your phone right from a USB port on your "old" MacBook Pro anyway.

 

With that said, there's some merit to a universal charger standard... remember when every phone had it's own special charger. Too bad the standard keeps changing...

 

"These “dongles” are generic USB-C devices. They work with any USB-C device."

 

OK but I don't have any other USB-C devices. I'm sure I will sooner or later, but why did Apple ditch ALL the other ports already? Plus, I use a laptop because it's portable. A docking station is an OK concept on the desktop (added cost apart) but I don't want to carry (or forget to carry) several dongles about with me. Even if I'm at home, I have at least a half dozen things I need to plugin into my laptop on and off when I am NOT at my desk. USB audio cards and microphones for example. Apple seem to think that laptops are used only either on a desk with a monitor and hard drives, or sitting in a cafe with no need to connect to anything except wifi.

 

Even the author of that article uses phrases like "USB-C nonsense."

 

The article has merit only if you have nothing yet (and a substantial laptop budget).

 

You can even get a "MagSafe dongle" for crying out loud.

 

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On 11/28/2016 at 9:54 AM, Eggcup The Daft said:

Macbook Pro great for hackers

 

To be clear, they are saying this because of Thunderbolt.    However, Thunderbolt is being deployed on all types of computers, not just Macs, and so it is not limited to an Apple problem   (in fact the problem is actually worse in Windows).

 

Thunderbolt is insecure, because it is a way to connect a Firewire device.     Firewire exposes most operating systems to really really bad security vulnerabilities.

 

Other ways to connect Firewire to a computer, is via express card, PCMCIA, USB3.1+, and of course via regular old PCI and PCIe sockets inside a computer....   so if you have any of these (and someone has physical access to your machine), then you computer is pretty much wide open security-wise.

 

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11 hours ago, john.reekie said:

but why did Apple ditch ALL the other ports already?

 

Rightly or wrongly.... This is the Apple way.

 

In 1998, they abandoned PS2 connectors (universal), Apple Bus (their OWN standard), and floppy disks (!!!) ... and replaced it all with USB.   The new bus which was only just ratified and had basically zero devices available .... and you only got 2 USB sockets.

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Guest Eggcup The Daft
1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

To be clear, they are saying this because of Thunderbolt.    However, Thunderbolt is being deployed on all types of computers, not just Macs, and so it is not limited to an Apple problem   (in fact the problem is actually worse in Windows).

 

Thunderbolt is insecure, because it is a way to connect a Firewire device.     Firewire exposes most operating systems to really really bad security vulnerabilities.

 

Other ways to connect Firewire to a computer, is via express card, PCMCIA, USB3.1+, and of course via regular old PCI and PCIe sockets inside a computer....   so if you have any of these (and someone has physical access to your machine), then you computer is pretty much wide open security-wise.

 

That article was quoted by Al, I quoted him. No problem.

 

They didn't mean "hackers" in the sense you are taking the word. Anyway, you're right about the FireWire issue. Thanks for the reminder. Incidentally, Thunderbolt and USB3.1 are both potentially open to the same bug as they can connect devices using DMA, which is what the exploits use to get past password protection.

 

Thanks for the Firewire reminder. I was going to reply with a note about the MacBook, as that doesn't have Thunderbolt - but its USB-C implementation is based on USB3.1.

 

But isn't DMA access through FireWire disabled by default in recent versions of MacOS? Setting firmware level passwords has also disabled DMA access since shortly after this was discovered, at least slowing the bad guys down. FileVault also stops this method now (but hasn't always, and I'm not sure when the hole was fixed).

 

 

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Briefly played with the new Macbook Pro yesterday.   Very nice machine.  I like the Keyboard (different people will react differently).  Screen is top notch and a real step-up in quality from the 2013 Macbook Pro I have.   

 

Touch Bar is nice and shows how great laptops will be with an OLED screen.   Personally I love Touch ID.   I also admire the implementation Apple have chosen, putting an iOS device, together with the Secure Enclave into the Intel MBPro.

 

I'm fine with USB-C and would welcome bi-directional charging, including off a powered external monitor.  Apple is being cheap with all their expensive cable add-ons, and it reflects poorly on the company (even at discounted pricing through end of year), but USB-C with Thunderbolt 3 compatibility (note, not on all the laptops) is definitely the way forward.

 

The improved battery life, as reported, also a very nice plus.

 

However, at over $4k for a machine equivalent in storage to my 16gb Ram / 512 Gb SSD Retina from 2013 with discrete graphics, it is just not worth the upgrade cost, *unless* you are Salary Sacrificing at the top bracket.

 

Even if you are, reasons to delay purchase:

* displayport 1.3 will allow more external monitors.  The current displayport 1.2 uses a multiplexing implementation to work with certain screens, effecting by stitching together two independent streams of graphics to look like one picture.

 

* next year or the year after, Intel will upgrade their CPUs to incorporate the Low Power v4 DDR RAM and let Apple go to 32Gb RAM.  I've seen the tests that show 16Gb is fine for now, and I understand that super fast SSD's alleviate the need for max RAM, but given that Intel is hitting the wall called Physics, and CPUs aren't doubling in speed every 18 months anymore, these Laptops can last 3-5 yrs, and so getting the extra RAM would be valuable

 

* price.  SSD and Touch Bar / ID introduction pricing currently maximising revenue out of the Gen 1 early adopters.

 

* arguable, NVIDIA GPUs which may return later, too.

 

Brilliant machine, but unless Sal Sac'ing, it would pay to wait and buy once.

 

Also, the SSD is soldered, but it is accessible in the event of a Motherboard failure, via that port Apple added.  

Edited by MotorRunning
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Guest Eggcup The Daft
13 hours ago, MotorRunning said:

Also, the SSD is soldered, but it is accessible in the event of a Motherboard failure, via that port Apple added.  

Do you have confirmation that SSD information is accessible via that port? From what I've read, this is still rumour...

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