Jump to content

Comparison Lightspeed DIY LDR Pre VS Stereo Coffee DIY


robmid

Recommended Posts

My experience is that an LDR preamp sounds like all electronic components have been removed from the signal path especially with my new 505 ESL panels. Unbelievable isn't the word because the audio experience is totally believable.

There is NO audible distortion in my modest system just pure realistic, dynamic sound that reaches the soul for all of $175.

What more could I want?

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



@stereo coffee

Thank you.

I found the luna tech note you mentioned

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://lunainc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Audio-level-Control.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwijkaHYiOHYAhUDnJQKHTtpDlYQFjABegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw32KO9I-0xWJzxcpSEBoUrA

 

It does talk about distortion, and they make an admission that distortion is higher in their optocoupler than a conventional potentiometer and a VCA. Obviously, the tech note goes into more detail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes its in the detail you don't mention

"These measurements were taken at fairly high levels,
typically corresponding to –6
dBFS on professional
equipment, and will decrease rapidly with input level
typically being 3 to 4 times less at 0 dBu, and virtually
unmeasurable at –20 dBu.
2) The distortion products produced by an Audiohm coupler
are all low order, second and third harmonics, which are
much less objectionable
than high order harmonics
produced by crossover artifacts.
3) In the series/shunt and hybrid series/shunt attenuator
configurations the worst distortion occurs at high
attenuations, where the output signal level is so low that
the distortion is unlikely
to be very noticeable "

 

, perhaps some equal google effort to find the distortion of potentiometers passing audio signals... hmm

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 09/01/2018 at 11:39 AM, Ugly said:

I've just purchased a 15v IFI power low noise supply.  The irony is that I'm now getting some weird buzz through the speakers that wasn't there previously. Not sure whether i need a DC blocker or something.

 

Having said that, the stereo coffee itself is brilliant. Sound stage is deeper and wider than the schiit freya Ive been using and there is more space around each note.  I also have to call out what it does for piano. I listen to a lot of solo piano and I don't think I've ever heard it sound so good! 

Got mine running with ifi 15V now forgot how it''s a good option for DC power and the local price is so cheap now. I have to agree with the separation is uncanny the performance to value of this kit is quite extraordinary. For future project that needs volume control I would actually consider putting this LDR kit in rather than a pot

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

An old thread but can't see a need to start a new one.

I have the latest iteration on the S/C. I say the latest but Chris has added an extra earth with back-to-back diodes on the LDR board. There are now only two. Apart from two silly mistakes, namely forgetting to screw down J40 (left channel) and not insulating the face side of the Bourne pot  it worked flawlessly.

 

The LDR board came with a 47K resistor soldered on the underside to one leg of a LM317 and the other to the cathode of J40. Chris reckoned it would be better to use a 220K which is what I did. With this value resistor the S/C goes loud (but not noisy) very quickly. I have a couple of my favourite signal path resistors - Z foils/100K I shall try one in place of the 220K. Chris does'nt reckon this will do anything for the sound - let's see.

 

For signal wiring into and out | use what I designed after years of trialling for i/connects - 4 x high purity solid core 26AWG inside FEP oversized (air core) dialectric. At the moment I have only used it via a Kenwood KD990/AT 33EV/ Talk Audio MC3 into a partly modded Dark Voice 336. 

 

Bass is outstanding - deep,detailed, I've never heard so much bass from my system. There is no congestion and voices are 'immediate' - Lightnin Hopkins is playing and singing right beside me. Played the remastered Herija, Joni's voice was more personal and intimate,Jaco's bass was the ballast for most of the LP. Queen's Live Killer - I wuz there at the gig.

 

A friend who had an earlier iteration said he found it fatiguing. Well I was using a Beyer DT990 and up until the S/C found it to be a great h/phone except for the top end. After my session tonight I had no fatigue at all. I'm sure there is more to come as I have yet to change the o/put caps in the Dark Voice or to change the h/shell to a lighter one in the Kenwood arm which should yield an even better performance from the 33EV.  My Heybrook Sextet Mk 1Vs are being recapped so then I can hear what the S/C will do for them paired with a Parasound Zamp.

 

The Stereo Coffee sounds bloody marvellous and the better the gear you use upstream the better it's going to sound. It's not at all sterile, far from it, it's transparent just like Z foils and K73-16 caps, I use both of these and together they bring music to life. An outstanding bargain - imagine a stunning volume control and preamp in one for $250 -?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • 4 weeks later...

Now days, I understand why the whole system is more important to great sound than any single component.

 

For example, since I discovered LDR preamps I have found that the difference between interconnect materials is immediately noticeable. My search for an interconnect that didn’t degrade the LDR sound ended when I built a new set using 1/8 inch x 1/1000 inch insulated copper foils and Taiwanese ’star’ RCA plugs.

 

I have acknowledged the StereoCoffee several times on this forum as a happy customer after I built my first one about 18 months ago. Since then, Chris has embarked on a focussed mission to reproduce audio exactly as the recording engineer recorded it. I reckon he has nailed it this time but he keeps improving the design anyway.

 

I have never heard a StereoCoffee with any other systems, but the listening experiences Chris has relater with his own but very different gear seem very similar to my own so I don't doubt it when he tells me he has made an upgrade, even when I think it is unnecessary.

 

Many people won't know that the SC has gone through many major redesign upgrades over the past 18 months. Fortunately,  I have had the opportunity to test them all against each other except the very latest one which I will be getting soon.

 

Previous LDR passive preamps, including the StereoCoffee don't compare with the latest SC version.

 

My past tests have all be made with a 150 watt Holton kit amp into KEF LS50's which were superb in my house. However,  being curious and enjoying DIY, I decided to take a crack at building a pair of hybrid ER Audio 505 ESL mini panels with a pair of upward firing 7 inch SB Acoustics Satori mid/woofers. I had never heard a set of ESL speakers, only ribbons.

 

After several months of messing with crossovers and cabinet stuffing (because I had no idea what I was doing) they are now at a level which leaves my beloved LS50's in their dust. In my opinion the mini panels are a perfect match with the StereoCoffee due to the lack of audible distortion.

 

Lately, I have read a lot about D Class amps and was lucky enough to get hold of a 120 watt Hypex nCore amplifier for a great price.

 

What a revelation. I detest harsh, ‘digital’ clinical sound and I wasn’t prepared for the smooth, almost valve like,  holographic imaging the Hypex amp was giving me. I am ecstatic that this minute amp has proven itself able to take advantage of the lack of distortion in tin the chain with the StereoCoffee and 505 panels.

 

No way did I expect to find MY own ultimate ‘high end’ system for under $2000, that would give me such an enormous 3d sound stage, pristine accuracy and emotion without the fatigue I have experienced at audiophile meets and audio retailers.

 

My room and the narrow line output of ESL panel sound means I only need a maximum level of 75dB to enjoy music throughout the house.

 

Many thanks to Chris and Rob (ER Audio 505 mini panels), for designing equipment that has given me the means to move with the future and enjoy myself so much for so little money.

 

Cheers, Rob

 

SC-2018-SC-Inside-Back.jpg.755ffc8ab7d148be29d37afdbf35c9b2.jpg1695640798_505finished.jpg.dc58c8ea8931954f9970e76e3ee6068a.jpg

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@robmid HOLY CRAP!! those speakers look cool!!! I WANT. Do you think your noticeable interconnects is due to passive pre being more fussy about cables?

I've also gone class D and won't be going back to class A or A/B with my current speakers.  I love the dead quiet background..... no hisssssss blisssssss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, misternavi said:

@robmid HOLY CRAP!! those speakers look cool!!! I WANT. Do you think your noticeable interconnects is due to passive pre being more fussy about cables?

I've also gone class D and won't be going back to class A or A/B with my current speakers.  I love the dead quiet background..... no hisssssss blisssssss.

Hi. Just listening to a zero background. It's very strange. I think this must be the future!

All cable sound great but these foils add a new hidden microscopic layer of detail. For example piano notes now have an extra dimension of harmonics within harmonics. More like an actual string in the room. I think the ESL's allow this to happen. Every bit of gear between the source and has just become audibly invisible. Never heard this much before.

Hard to describe really.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spoiler

I've been admiring and following the ER Audio stuff for many years without ever buying anything from Rob. I know that I love the ESL sound but have been more than happy with my SGR's for eleven years, so not been more than just tempted. Retired now so a second system as you describe @robmid sounds like affordable fun and would finally scratch the stats itch I've had since auditioning Martin Logan Vantage speakers pre SGR days.

I've been admiring and following the ER Audio stuff for many years without ever buying anything from Rob. I know that I love the ESL sound but have been more than happy with my SGR's for eleven years, so not been more than just tempted. Retired now so a second system as you describe @robmid sounds like affordable fun and would finally scratch the stats itch I've had since auditioning Martin Logan Vantage speakers pre SGR days.

Edited by Grimmie
Link to comment
Share on other sites



Hi Rob, 

saw your post and and AndrewGM on diyaudio - glad that my post triggered Andrew's replies - he came in guns blazing, definitely not taking prisoners - nor should he.

 

For all those not knowing what I'm referring to here should visit diyaudio and look for the thread - Chris Daleys Stereo Coffee Preamp. This is a great forum but there are a few - supply your own adjective to describe them who pollute/corrupt threads. They are fanatical 'True Believers' who accuse others of their own sickness. They condemn components/devices that they have no actual experience of and rain down insults on those who they consider are inferior/deluded or mentally deficient.

 

One in particular known as DF96 - I would love to have a face-to-face with him in a nice quiet secluded place with nowhere for him to run. I doubt that I would have to get physical it would be a ruthless psychological dissection, hopefully he would never recover from the experience - he is a totally negative corrosive klootzak.

 

Well done Rob for his input. As AndrewGM said - why don't the mods enter a thread as soon as this malevolent input occurs and stop it dead. A mod may well agree with these klootzaken but as a mod should remain impartial, that's the job of a mod.

 

Like others I see threads with which I disagree, as long as it's about opinions, no one is being encouraged to do anything dangerous or silly, why would I want to interfere - I stay away, it's not a thread in which I can introduce anything of use but then there are klootzaks like DF96 - unfortunately they are unable to - get a life. Sometimes they are so corrosive they will literally destroy a forum. 

 

And now for something positive - Rob, my S/C has only 2 boards, the first small board is now redundant, other than that out 2 boards are the same. Chris has since made a new grounding arrangement on the o/put board, which I believe he will supply. I shall ask him to send the details when  I return the redundant boards (I have 2). I'm also sending Chris a set of 0.5M i/connects for him to try. I ended up with this design after 4 years of research (nearly put me off music), your welcome to try them as well after him. 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Southerly said:

Hi Rob, 

saw your post and and AndrewGM on diyaudio - glad that my post triggered Andrew's replies - he came in guns blazing, definitely not taking prisoners - nor should he.

 

For all those not knowing what I'm referring to here should visit diyaudio and look for the thread - Chris Daleys Stereo Coffee Preamp. This is a great forum but there are a few - supply your own adjective to describe them who pollute/corrupt threads. They are fanatical 'True Believers' who accuse others of their own sickness. They condemn components/devices that they have no actual experience of and rain down insults on those who they consider are inferior/deluded or mentally deficient.

 

One in particular known as DF96 - I would love to have a face-to-face with him in a nice quiet secluded place with nowhere for him to run. I doubt that I would have to get physical it would be a ruthless psychological dissection, hopefully he would never recover from the experience - he is a totally negative corrosive klootzak.

 

Well done Rob for his input. As AndrewGM said - why don't the mods enter a thread as soon as this malevolent input occurs and stop it dead. A mod may well agree with these klootzaken but as a mod should remain impartial, that's the job of a mod.

 

Like others I see threads with which I disagree, as long as it's about opinions, no one is being encouraged to do anything dangerous or silly, why would I want to interfere - I stay away, it's not a thread in which I can introduce anything of use but then there are klootzaks like DF96 - unfortunately they are unable to - get a life. Sometimes they are so corrosive they will literally destroy a forum. 

 

And now for something positive - Rob, my S/C has only 2 boards, the first small board is now redundant, other than that out 2 boards are the same. Chris has since made a new grounding arrangement on the o/put board, which I believe he will supply. I shall ask him to send the details when  I return the redundant boards (I have 2). I'm also sending Chris a set of 0.5M i/connects for him to try. I ended up with this design after 4 years of research (nearly put me off music), your welcome to try them as well after him. 

Is it one of those how can an LDR be better than resistor argument? I decide not to entertain those discussion long ago, people are just so stubborn even without trying 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 20/11/2018 at 9:37 PM, Wozza_Lee said:

A bit off topic but what drivers are you using with the 505's, and what xo?

I'm using 6.5 inch Satori MW16P-8.The 505 has a first order high pass supplied with the board. My cap is a Mundorf 56uF.  Rob Mackinlay will supply a different cap depending on your requirements.

 

The Satoris are running a first order low pass with 8.6 mH inductance. Crossover is around 260 hZ.

 

The Satoris are very nimble and blend beautifully with the panels unfortunately I did have to attenuate them by about 10dB as they took away the 505 ESL integrity.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, mloutfie said:

Is it one of those how can an LDR be better than resistor argument? I decide not to entertain those discussion long ago, people are just so stubborn even without trying 

 Someone started a thread on diyaudio about how pleased they were with the S/C  - this triggered off a Brownshirt attack on Chris Daley and on anyone who actually owned an S/C and liked it. So, no it wasn't a versus argument, had you looked at the thread you would have seen that and the abuse this engendered. As AndrewGM said the mods should have stopped this at once. The most important elements to keep a forum healthy are strict rules and unbiased mods, unbiased mods are the most important. I say this having seen what's happened over the last 20 years on forums of all kinds.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



The rules on DiyA are quite clear, but it appears to be that some people can ignore the rules and the moderators ignore the abuse for 'reason's unknown' - it's only takes a few threads to deteriorate and the whole site becomes 'infected' and many really 'good people' and projects simply leave and don't go back.

 

I remember an often quoted saying that  'any bad news about a product was free advertising' but the continuing level of personal abuse on DiyA is pretty toxic

 

Uriah doesn't suffer this abuse for the simple reason that he 'opted out' of DiyA some years ago - what he did tho was to buy some fancy test gear and this resulted in the very simple Clone Note that does have vanishingly low distortion levels at the normal 2v signal levels.

 

Now, as most people are aware these days, low measured distortion doesn't automatically make a better sounding device - it just makes it a low distortion unit that, in this unit anyway, happens to sound very transparent, and many people like the result - and it appears that the S/C has similar characteristics too and it would be pretty hard to not be very satisfied with the resulting sound.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

robmid,

I didn't need to be infected with another possible speaker project. Years ago I bought a pair of Grand Heils with the aim of making some OBs. the problem was always finding the right 15" or 18" woofer. They also came with the original EMT x/overs.

 

I saw someone on diyA used sewage piping for enclosures - what a brilliant idea. Funnily enough where we moved from had major makeover with electrics and sewage works. I saw cut-offs which I thought would make excellent plant pots in a growhouse,now I see a completely different use.

 

MY idea was to use curved aercrete building blocks to house the woofer with a frame to hold the Grand Heils (they perform better in free air). The blocks would have to be sited on pieces of ply, sonically they would make very good speaker material. These blocks can be treated with a Unibond wash to stabilise the surface and any kind of finish could be used.

 

The Grand Heils like the 505 panels are mid/tweeter in one but the ER panels would be far easier to use. My one rational doubt is over the x/overs, I don't have the equipment or the knowledge to design either a passive or better an active x/over, even so I'm very tempted to jump in - I can already hear my wife cranking up her negative response.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

I would appreciate input from anyone who got Chris Daley to build them a balanced o/put version of the Stereo Coffee, reason being I'm awaiting the arrival of a s/hand Hypex UCD 180.

 

I know this can be run with unbalanced inputs but Hypex rec. balanced XLRs. I reckon I can re-arrange the existing PSU  board to fit another  o/put board inside the existing case.

 

Chris has supplied me with the info needed to covert the existing RCA to XLR input form the Hypex but it equates to a lot of components in the signal path which I don't like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...
On 01/05/2019 at 7:31 PM, Southerly said:

I would appreciate input from anyone who got Chris Daley to build them a balanced o/put version of the Stereo Coffee, reason being I'm awaiting the arrival of a s/hand Hypex UCD 180.

 

I know this can be run with unbalanced inputs but Hypex rec. balanced XLRs. I reckon I can re-arrange the existing PSU  board to fit another  o/put board inside the existing case.

 

Chris has supplied me with the info needed to covert the existing RCA to XLR input form the Hypex but it equates to a lot of components in the signal path which I don't like.

I agree with your last par and have steered away from XLRs on the StereoCoffee because I believe the beauty its superb performance is its lack of components in the signal path. My bi-amped Hypexes have Balanced inputs and the SC still uses RCAs. This configuration seems like a good compromise and does sound much better than RCA to RCA in my opinion.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...
To Top