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georgehifi

Another Discrete R2R Multibit PCM/DSD DAC from China

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Looks amazing for the money.

Great to see another even more affordable discrete ladder Dac as I think the Holo Dac is awesome.

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Didn't take long for those Chinese Techs to jump in and give us much more affordable discrete R2R Multibit dacs, in competition to  the US or Euro mega dollar ones.

No glitzy mega dollar looks to suck the big dollars from you, just the circuitry that makes the sound, in plain jane chassis.

 

Cheers George

 

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Would be great to try but not sure how one would order a unit. The website is in chinese and I wonder if there are any distributors outside of China?

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Just now, GTA007 said:

Would be great to try but not sure how one would order a unit. The website is in chinese and I wonder if there are any distributors outside of China?

Did see it avaialble here too. Not sure if it is any better for purchasing

http://www.yoycart.com/Product/16104421599/Oak_leaves_sound_Dana_F_Reps_DENAFRIPS_D/

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This other website (Yoycart.com) has it for AUD$100 more I think

Edited by GTA007

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Oak Leaves audio Donna Fred Phelps ARES 24/384 R2R fully balanced DSD decoder DAC256

ARES desktop digital audio decoder, small size, built things around. Both very young girl bears the passion and vigor of youth, but also has a mature woman of dignified elegance and charm, delicate yet dignified, in line with the modern aesthetic point of view, but elegant extravagant treat.

Great find George, looks like very similar parts and specs to the holo.

Tempted to try one out :unsure:

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Can someone explain the basic tech of the Holo and these other R2R Dacs to me? 

My limited understanding is that they can do an R2R cheaply b/c instead of hand matching resistors they are somehow building a board which includes R2R technology?

I always thought that the reason the traditional R2R DACs that play hi-res were expensive is because they demand a lot of hand matched resisitors. 

If this is different, how are they accomplishing it?

 

And BTW, is this the same type of thing Lampizator is now doing in their new DACs, which also play DSD via R2R?

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if you combine Soekris DAM with Signalyst DSC1 board you don't need much more to do good PCM/DSD DAC for decent money but there are limitations as you can find on DIY audio forum, cost for R2R is high due to amount of resistors needed and their quality, preferably down to 0.1-0.05% accuracy, in these days nothing to do with hand matching just pure cost for resistors with such accuracy which you can buy of the shelf from Mouser and similar

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Total Dac, MSB flagship, and a few others do similar discrete R2R with hand matched resistors but it costs $$$$$$$$, this is why it's so exciting to be able to get "maybe" similar circuitry with matched resistors for so little $'s, part of the saving comes down to non-glitz chassis ect, that have nothing to do with producing good sound.

 

Cheers George  

Edited by georgehifi

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2 hours ago, firedog said:

Can someone explain the basic tech of the Holo and these other R2R Dacs to me? 

My limited understanding is that they can do an R2R cheaply b/c instead of hand matching resistors they are somehow building a board which includes R2R technology?

I always thought that the reason the traditional R2R DACs that play hi-res were expensive is because they demand a lot of hand matched resisitors. 

If this is different, how are they accomplishing it?

 

And BTW, is this the same type of thing Lampizator is now doing in their new DACs, which also play DSD via R2R?

 

If you goto this link and scroll down and there is a lot of info that may help to explain a little of the Holo Dac tech inside.

https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/

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The A.C. "reference fuse" for $118 at the bottom worries me a lot.

Then again this is a retail shop, and he's not a "Saint", so he's entitled to make money any which way.

 

Cheers George

Edited by georgehifi

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9 hours ago, georgehifi said:

The A.C. "reference fuse" for $118 at the bottom worries me a lot.

Then again this is a retail shop, and he's not a "Saint", so he's entitled to make money any which way.

 

Cheers George

Timely post as this just came in the mail for my Holo. :D

 

IMG_6352.JPG

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20 hours ago, rocky500 said:

 

If you goto this link and scroll down and there is a lot of info that may help to explain a little of the Holo Dac tech inside.

https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/

Yeah, that explanation doesn't mean much too me. That's why I asked if someone else could explain what the tech is, and how it compares to the R2R solution Lampizator has come up with, and more traditional R2R designs that do hi-res and DSD.

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Quote
6 minutes ago, krakatana said:

The Denafrips DAC seems to have disappeared from Taobao.

 

 

I'm not a hacking expert, but that's what it looks like to me.

 

They're all here but you can't get to them, especially the Ares which is the one we've been looking at. 

https://denafrips.world.taobao.com/

Cheers George

Edited by georgehifi

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On 10/14/2016 at 2:15 PM, firedog said:

Yeah, that explanation doesn't mean much too me. That's why I asked if someone else could explain what the tech is, and how it compares to the R2R solution Lampizator has come up with, and more traditional R2R designs that do hi-res and DSD.

The bit I was refering too 

 

This is the first discrete DAC that has linear compensation and this allows for ultimate music reproduction accuracy. Dual R2R network for PCM, and Dual R2R network for DSD! 

and

You may be asking… well what is so special about this DAC? The first Discrete R2R DAC with linear compensation…what is this?

There’s an additional R2R ladder in the Spring DAC, it compensates the main R2R ladder. It works like trimming, but trimming is to change the resistor value. This additional R2R ladder is digitally controlled and will accurately compensate the resistor tolerance. For example, the MSB of 16 bits should have the value of 32768, but due to tolerance, it represents 32700 in real world results. Then that additional R2R ladder will compensate 68 into it. Thus it now becomes 32700 + 68 = 32768.  What this means is that it’s likely the most precise Discrete DAC on the market with near flawless linearity, lowest THD and highest SNR of any NOS DAC. The sound is simply something you must experience to fully realize how special this DAC is. It’s a patented technology exclusive to Holo Audio. Kitsune Hifi is also Holo Audio USA and proud to bring you this DAC.

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It's like very fine tuning the original R2R resistors.

The question is what % were the original R2R resistors,? as you pay big time the more accurate they are. I believe you can get them down to .001% accuracy.

If this is what they started with then great they can do even better using this system than anyone else, maybe down as low as .0001% accuracy?

But if they penny pinched with .01% original R2R resistors, then with this system added they just get back to the .001%, so who knows?????

 

Cheers George  

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5 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

It's like very fine tuning the original R2R resistors.

The question is what % were the original R2R resistors,? as you pay big time the more accurate they are. I believe you can get them down to .001% accuracy.

If this is what they started with then great they can do even better using this system than anyone else, maybe down as low as .0001% accuracy?

But if they penny pinched with .01% original R2R resistors, then with this system added they just get back to the .001%, so who knows?????

 

Cheers George  

 

It could all be just good marketing, but I was looking to get a R2R dac and the Holo seemed to have impressive specs for the money. :)

These ones on this thread could be right up there too.

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Has anyone seen measurements of the monotonicity of these discreet R2R DACs?

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18 minutes ago, eltech said:

Has anyone seen measurements of the monotonicity of these discreet R2R DACs?

Just these ones for the Holo Dac

 

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These type of R2R performance would really be determined by how good the code put in the FPGA chip wouldn't they? since no off the shelf DA chip is used

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