EV Cali Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 30 minutes ago, clunt said: Im gonna attempt the dodgy spindle solution I reckon. Hi Clint By spindle do you mean the pulley on the motor? I think to make the TT go slower you would have to make the Motor pulley / Spindle, smaller . Much easier to make the platter bigger plus easier to revers and adjust if you just use tape. Some people use use wide elastic bands but that is when the platter pulley is smaller , not when the external face of the platter is used as the pulley , like yours is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clunt Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Hi Clint By spindle do you mean the pulley on the motor? I think to make the TT go slower you would have to make the Motor pulley / Spindle, smaller . Much easier to make the platter bigger plus easier to revers and adjust if you just use tape. Some people use use wide elastic bands but that is when the platter pulley is smaller , not when the external face of the platter is used as the pulley , like yours is. Ive tried to add a mm or 2 of tape to the platter. Makes it super ugly so I was gonna attempt the smaller spindle first. Was too nervous to try to modify the spindle I have to be smaller as thats not easy to undo. Anyone clever enough to design a cheap freq generator to hook up to a transformer for this unit?CheersSent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EV Cali Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Hi clunt There are speed boxes that people use with REGA , Project and some other TT but they cost hundreds of dollars and would be worth more than the TT and may not work with this motor. I can understand your situation in that you have acquired a TT , spent some time on it and $40 on a new belt and are reluctant to give up on it . I felt the same way when I had acquired a new belt and was up to motor number three but some times you have to walk away and accept you would be better to put your time and money and time in to a TT that will give a better out come. IMO you should consider removing the arm and keeping it for when you come across a more deserving TT and then advertising the TT on gumtree as a non running project for $50 negotiable Edited November 9, 2016 by EV Cali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monaro8 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 11 hours ago, EV Cali said: Perhaps, like me, he has got so disheartened with it he has taken my advice. "The best thing you can do is carefully remove the arm and put the rest of it in the bin". I could be totally wrong on this, but the speed is set by the ratio of the size of the pulley to the size of what it is placed round on the platter. Just like the large and small cogs on a bicycle. So it is hard to see how a thicker or thinner belt would make any difference. The TT could be made to go slower by increasing the size of the platter ,with some electrical tape warped round it. Actually originally I thought the same...the belt thickness should not make any difference...until I tried a 2mm thick belt then a 2.5mm thick belt on the same turntable and was stunned when the speed changed. The same pulley on the same turntable at 33.3RPM delivered different speeds due to the belt thickness....this occurred on a JH turntable and also a Connoisseur BD1 turntable where the belt runs on the outer rim of the platter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monaro8 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, clunt said: Ive tried to add a mm or 2 of tape to the platter. Makes it super ugly so I was gonna attempt the smaller spindle first. Was too nervous to try to modify the spindle I have to be smaller as thats not easy to undo. Anyone clever enough to design a cheap freq generator to hook up to a transformer for this unit? Cheers Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk Don't mess up the platter or the spindle...it is the belt thickness... Has anyone else had this experience...belt thickness v speed? Why? I think it is this...a 1.5mm round cord type belt [not the usual flat belt] sits in the pulley differently compared to a 2mm or 2.5mm thick cord type belt. The pulley is also rounded inside where the belt wraps around the pulley hence a smaller belt has a smaller contact area on the pulley...a thicker belt has a larger contact area and so on. I have done this test and found this to be the case. Edited November 9, 2016 by monaro8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clunt Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Don't mess up the platter or the spindle...it is the belt thickness... Has anyone else had this experience...belt thickness v speed? Why? I think it is this...a 1.5mm round cord type belt [not the usual flat belt] sits in the pulley differently compared to a 2mm or 2.5mm thick cord type belt. The pulley is also rounded inside where the belt wraps around the pulley hence a smaller belt has a smaller contact area on the pulley...a thicker belt has a larger contact area and so on. I have done this test and found this to be the case. Well, this might change my approach. Ill do a test with dental floss abd xhexk the speed, might be time to blow another 50 bux on a thinner belt lolSent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monaro8 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Save your 50 bux....look on Ebay for "rubber cord" Here....eBay item number: 272231302283 You can select which thickness you require...2mm thick for example is AU$8.04 with Free Postage. When you have the rubber cord, it does have nice stretch to it too, just measure the length around the platter and pulley...maybe allow about .5 cm to 1 cm shorter so it holds reasonably firmly onto the pulley but not TOO tight. Cut to size straight up and down for a square edge with a Stanley knife...I use and old wooden chopping board, place the ends together and tape the cord onto chopping board with masking tape to hold the ends in postion...then use some super glue...just a drop onto the ends...place the ends together to bond...check they are lined up correctly and not crooked...let them sit for an hour or so. Remove the tape...ease the belt carefully off the board...give it a bit of a stretch to see the glue has bonded properly [any excess glue can be clipped off with some nail clippers...haha] And if all has gone well....you just made your own belt for $8.04 and a drop of super glue...and some patience. Maybe buy a 1.5mm cord and 2.5 mm cord and see which does the trick...still well under 50 bux. Hope this helps...Vanch Edited November 9, 2016 by monaro8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiofeline Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 There are adhesives specially designed for rubber/o-rings, eg.Loctite 406. I don't know how much of an improvement it is over super-glue but it's not expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monaro8 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Yes Loctite 406 is good if you have it but I would say most people would have some super glue around...it sticks and dries quickly. Just don't glue your fingers together.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EV Cali Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 15 hours ago, monaro8 said: Why? I think it is this...a 1.5mm round cord type belt [not the usual flat belt] sits in the pulley differently compared to a 2mm or 2.5mm thick cord type belt. The pulley is also rounded inside where the belt wraps around the pulley hence a smaller belt has a smaller contact area on the pulley...a thicker belt has a larger contact area and so on. The size of the belt, the contact area of the belt and the length of the belt is of no relevance to the speed of the turntable . This is a simple law of Physics. Why? What you were noticing is that on a curved pulley a larger belt will not sit as low in the pulley as the correct size smaller belt. The affect of this is to make the pulley size larger. It is the size of the pulleys that determines the speed. How many rotations of the first pulley it takes to rotate the second pulley one turn. Making the motor pulley larger , by use of a larger thickness belt, will make the TT go faster ,as it will take fewer turns of the small pulley to turn the lager pulley one rotation. This is the opposite affect to the one clunt is looking for. I assume at $40 clunt purchased the correct size belt for the JH pulley . The problem is that the motor is not a proper TT motor and is not up to the job. Also splicing may be ok for an o ring but the joint on a TT belt will be noticed. I spliced a belt for a TT, just so I could test it worked before I purchased the correct belt, and although it sounded ok to me at first, by looking at the strobe I could see every time the glued area went round the motor pulley the speed slowed slightly. The tension of the belt is important , too loose and it could slip or fall off, too tight it could pull the pulley out of alignment and it could make it not possille to change speed as the belt will not easily move from one part of the pulley to the other. clunt could get a better motor and platter but he would then really have a different TT so what would be the point. Edited November 10, 2016 by EV Cali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monaro8 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) Good morning you may be correct with this.... "Making the motor pulley larger , by use of a larger thickness belt, will make the TT go faster ,as it will take fewer turns of the small pulley to turn the lager pulley one rotation." I have made at least 10 of these cord type belts myself and yes if you use too much glue it will cause a "small bump" where it meets the pulley...so make sure to use just a dab of super glue and make sure you align the joined ends precisely....this small bump may have a slight affect on the speed for a millisecond where it meets the pulley...I can not hear any difference in the music while playing. All I know is that I just did a test on my Connoisseur BD1 turntable and found these speed readings>>>> 1.0 mm belt speed.....29.7 RPM 1.5mm belt speed....31.0 RPM 2.0mm belt speed....33.3 RPM Edited November 10, 2016 by monaro8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EV Cali Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Quote 3 hours ago, monaro8 said: Good morning you may be correct with this.... "Making the motor pulley larger , by use of a larger thickness belt, will make the TT go faster ,as it will take fewer turns of the small pulley to turn the lager pulley one rotation." I have made at least 10 of these cord type belts myself and yes if you use too much glue it will cause a "small bump" where it meets the pulley...so make sure to use just a dab of super glue and make sure you align the joined ends precisely....this small bump may have a slight affect on the speed for a millisecond where it meets the pulley...I can not hear any difference in the music while playing. All I know is that I just did a test on my Connoisseur BD1 turntable and found these speed readings>>>> 1.0 mm belt speed.....29.7 RPM 1.5mm belt speed....31.0 RPM 2.0mm belt speed....33.3 RPM Hi monaro If you are happy with the belts you have made that is all that matters but I would not be happy with a belt that had a slight variation in speed 33 times per minute. I have no doubt you found the speed results you mention. As I said the thicker the belt the more it will ride out from the bottom of a curved pulley and act like a larger pulley. But that does not mean that you should control the speed of a TT by using belts that do not fit the pulley. You asked the question it is the belt thickness... Why? Are you still saying that you think the likely cause of the speed difference is "a smaller belt has a smaller contact area on the pulley...a thicker belt has a larger contact area and so on". and not prepared to accept the reason I gave . If this is the case it is a bit strange you asked the question in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clunt Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 Well for 8 bux, I'll give it a try, isolate which size belt will get me the right speed, then see if I can find a seamless one for the long term. Thanks heaps for the detailed explanations, makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EV Cali Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Why not . More than one way to skin a cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monaro8 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Fair comment...I really do not know Why? It was just a guess...I guess For me it means: A. I can play records on my turntable which would otherwise not be used B. for a fraction of the cost of buying a manufacturer made belt...which should be better of course (unless it is playing at the wrong speed) C. I can not hear any difference in the music where the glued part of the belt hits the pulley. Like I said....do not use "too much glue"....just a small dab of super glue on each end of the cord....make sure you align them perfectly when joining the ends together... this is made easier by using masking tape to hold down each end of the rubber cord onto a chopping board or the like, checking the joins are precise, then let it dry. I used this procedure this morning and it took me 5 minutes to make a belt with a near seem less join...plays beautifully....in fact I was able to make 2 belts from the one cord purchased Before gluing the ends I measured the cord length for future reference to fit that particular turntable. Hope this helps other members with similar problems.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monaro8 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Thanks EV Good discussion.... Hopefully clunt can get the right belt made up for his turntable. Let's see how it goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddisgeek Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Clunt, I have a JVC QL 50 in the shed that has no arm, but the arm board is cut for your Grace arm. Speed is rock solid and it will run rings around the Encel. Happy to let it go cheap. Send me a PM if you're keen Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EV Cali Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 And you will not have to worry about belts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_mike Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Couldn't you just get a big O ring from an engineering supplier? They make them that big in different thicknesses and profiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EV Cali Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I used a big O ring for my JH TT as I thought it would be cheaper than an actual belt being sold specifically for the TT. Unfortunately it was almost the same price ! So about four time more that the DIY belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_mike Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I picked some up as replacement for my Aura, $3.50 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EV Cali Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) I was robbed . O rings appear to be the best bet then. Can you recommend a supplier for clunt. Edited November 12, 2016 by EV Cali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_mike Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Forget hardware stores. Try engineering services and supply companies, they use this stuff all the time. Companies that service large heavy duty hydraulic equipment like cranes will stock them as well. That is typically where o rings of this size are used. They stock them by the hundreds, so have the buying power to supply cheaply. One thing to be aware of though, many of them have a minimum invoice value which may be $50 or more. Cash over the counter with no invoice usually sorts this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monaro8 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) Hello clunt, I was thinking you mentioned the new belt your bought is 1.3mm thick. I think your turntable needs a 1.0mm thick belt to run at the correct speed. If you get the 1.0mm rubber belt from the Ebay seller I mentioned you should be able to get the speed just about spot on....I hope... Remember to use just a small dab of super glue at each end...not too much, then tape the glued ends down on a chopping board or the like to hold them in position...make sure they are evenly aligned before the glue sets>>>>>ACTUALLY BETTER TO TAPE THE ENDS DOWN FIRST! Good luck with that...Vanch Edited November 17, 2016 by monaro8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clunt Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 It WORKED!! Thanks for your help, its sitting almost perfectly still with the strobo disc now and sounds much better. Couldnt notice the bump from the join at all either.I really appreciate the suggestion Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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