Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners & Discussion Thread

[cn9601]

points noted  ;)

 

I think end of the day, I would recommend giving the 805s as much juice as you can.

[DJQ]

you are talking about Cyrus 8vs2 int amp or Cyrus 8 power amp? either one no problem.

 

so which do you have? 805s or 683?

[cn9601]

sorie for giving the wrong impression. Not yet B&W-ish  ;)

 

so which do you have? 805s or 683?

[DJQ]

sorie for giving the wrong impression. Not yet B&W-ish  ;)

 

 

haha ok. but err i read thru the history, since 2007 you have been talking about B&W. till now you didnt buy 1 yet??? winz lor. show support mah. buy the 686 surrounds 1st. use it as a bookshelf spk. after which get floodstanders or better bookshelfs move 686 to surrounds.

[music_loft]

Your humour isn't really appreciated here. In fact, i found it a bit rude for you to post such a irresponsible msg.

If it is me that you are refering to, well, sorry to disappoint you, i never step foot in TEG.

 

Hi yihyan, i am not refering to you....

[cn9601]

I was evaluating and I was tempted. I am still being tempted...... ;D  more in love wif 800s, coz of its build and spec  ;)

 

Unlike Onky AVR and BD and CDP, replacing my current front & ctr (good old Mission 774) means a massive investment that I need to replace oso my int amp (good old Audiolab) and CDP, importantly the amp. And this easily mean ard $10k-$15k or MORE  :o ::)

 

I am still weighing my options: Int amp/Preamp + Power amp, Fronts & Ctr

 

Y I ask abt Cyrus, bcos the 'better' ones wif more juice will defintely sky rocket to >$20k. Not tat Cyrus is cheap, but kinda affordable. Of coz there are better 'matching' amp wif B&W.........at a price; 一分钱，一分货.

 

Nowadays, I cant buy things that my heart tells me. I buy wat my mind tells me ===> buy wat u need, not buy wat u want  8)

 

So will continue to read tis thread in awe and drooooool on B&W  :-[

 

haha ok. but err i read thru the history, since 2007 you have been talking about B&W. till now you didnt buy 1 yet??? winz lor. show support mah. buy the 686 surrounds 1st. use it as a bookshelf spk. after which get floodstanders or better bookshelfs move 686 to surrounds.

[wyvern]

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S

2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)

3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)

4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )

5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s

6) TYF : 2xCM1

7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s

Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62

9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)

10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)

11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601

12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)

13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s rear, CDM CSE center

14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.

15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)

16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62

17) infernosix: 2 X 805S (Rosenut), 3 X M-1

18) raysusan: 2x N805S {cherrywood}

19) rahul: 2x DM602 S3

 

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):

a) Wyvern: CM1x2, 686x2 (new addition)

b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,

c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610

d) Petetherock: 805s

 

[righteous_terre]

I have been reading this thread for a while and it was previously due to some information on this thread that made me decide to purchase the speakers a while back.

 

have resisted to poke my nose in all the debate but since now I am jobless and have much time at home now...

 

I think some posts and comments made by DH is not warranted (esp in a B&W thread)and if Thiel is all that great then Thiel would have been one of the big speaker brands..but Thiel is not and B&W is still considered one of the great loudspeaker legends.

 

Just because you say Thiel is better does not mean it is.  I do not think you are any authority.

 

I think it is correct Jason came out to correct some points.  otherwise, people like me will be misguided by forumers pretending to help other forumers but have hidden agenda or a personal grudge.

 

Sample of a personal grudge by DH: "And I don't recall being critical of B&W as speakers.....I don't really have an issue with the speakers per se, merely the product, pricing, placement and promotion of it in the Singapore context."

 

Perhaps DH prefer himself or the Thiel Distributor as the next B&W distributor.

 

And DH's continued poking fun of the B&W/distributor in other threads is a sign of weakness and is threading on a thin line.  If I am Jason, I will get my lawyers to keep track of what DH/Mr Toh says.

 

Frankly, as a proud B&W owner, I do not like other jokers coming into the thread and try to bash the brand.  It seems to be telling me that I should feel bad for my decision to purchase my B&W.  On the contrary, I think only the weaker side take sniper shots at the winning side.

 

I am surprised that so few B&W supporter exists in this thread.  I hope to see more supportive comments so that these people that worship a "tower fan" as the best speaker will stay in their realm - perhaps in Giant hypermarket where there are alot of cheap fans for them to kowtow to...

 

And to those who do not believe in the B&W brand and have a weak mind, why are you in this thread anyway??  This place is for those who appreciate more then just sound, and a place to honor the B&W ownership.

 

And a note to Jason, I know some of your prices is below international price and some are above.  I can never understand it despite my many years in sales distribution.  It will be great to see some adjustments ;) so that I can upgrade my speaker, maybe in the next few months.

 

By the way, your sales guys are great, compared to some (not all la) ah-bengs in Adelphi.

 

cheers

righteous

[righteous_terre]

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S

2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)

3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)

4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )

5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s

6) TYF : 2xCM1

7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s

Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62

9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)

10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)

11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601

12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)

13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s rear, CDM CSE center

14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.

15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)

16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62

17) infernosix: 2 X 805S (Rosenut), 3 X M-1

18) raysusan: 2x N805S {cherrywood}

19) rahul: 2x DM602 S3

20) righteous: 2x 803s, 2x 685s, HTM4s

 

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):

a) Wyvern: CM1x2, 686x2 (new addition)

b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,

c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610

d) Petetherock: 805s

 

[watchthewaves]

I was evaluating and I was tempted. I am still being tempted...... ;D  more in love wif 800s, coz of its build and spec  ;)

 

Unlike Onky AVR and BD and CDP, replacing my current front & ctr (good old Mission 774) means a massive investment that I need to replace oso my int amp (good old Audiolab) and CDP, importantly the amp. And this easily mean ard $10k-$15k or MORE  :o ::)

 

I am still weighing my options: Int amp/Preamp + Power amp, Fronts & Ctr

 

Y I ask abt Cyrus, bcos the 'better' ones wif more juice will defintely sky rocket to >$20k. Not tat Cyrus is cheap, but kinda affordable. Of coz there are better 'matching' amp wif B&W.........at a price; 一分钱，一分货.

 

You looking at which end of the 800 range?  At the lower end, I don't think you need like $10-20k for your amp.  In fact, I think even for the higher end, depending on your philosophy, can do under $10k.

 

YMMV, but I go with spending more on speakers compared to the other components because that's the voice of your system.  Then for power, I go for lots of good, clean power ... and that can be found with pro audio stuff.  If you explore that realm, cost effective options beyond your usual consumer brands open up.  Possibly can also consider digital amps, but I haven't kept up with developments there, so can't say anything about that.

 

Even if you don't extract the last ounce of quality sound from your speakers, you would have gotten a price to performance ratio for the entire system already.

 

Why don't you lug your Audiolab down and hear how it performs with the 805 or 804?  I have heard a relatively "puny" Linn Classik drive a pair of 804 and it was putting out quite "PRATty" sound.  One option is that if your present amp or a cheaper interim amp produces a sound you can more than live with, then get the speakers first.  Upgrade the rest of the system bit by bit later.

 

Enjoy the music  ;)

[Doggie Howser]

I have been reading this thread for a while and it was previously due to some information on this thread that made me decide to purchase the speakers a while back.

 

Then perhaps I might request that you re-read some of the same posts to refresh your memory :)

 

Here's what I wrote of the B&W sound signature.

"warm mellow"

"works particularly well with female vocalists"

"quite good at softening the edginess in recordings, especially not so well mastered ones."

"warm comfort"

(I thought those were good qualities!) :)

 

And here's what I wrote of Thiels

"critical"

 

I believe other forummers here have had similar comments. If your choice of music and listening patterns work better with one speaker then that speaker is the right choice of you. Irrespective of what other reviewers said. You should not have to feel "reassured" with what reviewers say, more what your heart and soul tells you when you listen to the music.

 

then Thiel would have been one of the big speaker brands..but Thiel is not and B&W is still considered one of the great loudspeaker legends.

 

Up until a couple of years ago, I had never even heard of the Thiel brand :) but if "popularity" or "brand awareness" is an indication of greatness, then I guess the Golden Arches would be the authority in cuisine.

 

And as to why I post here, it is because I too own B&Ws and I feel that it is good for consumers to have a voice. If you read watchdog and yihyan's posts, among countless others, it might be of concern to most other distributors to see if some changes are needed. Feedback is an important channel for business improvement.

 

 

 

[DJQ]

As always i am a B&W fan from day 1 since i joined this forum. the only regret is not getting the B&W 603 S3 made in UK. tell me more about those newer 6series, parts from UK, assembled in China. under the QA from B&W personnel. to me those made in UK is just that tingling little bit better. but thats just me, so no need to quote me.

both brands are totally made in different countries, UK and US. both types share different genre of music foundations.

the B&W owners here share that same feeling when it comes to music. But there is so many brands out there, not many willing to pay premium for it. if my budget permits i will still go for the B&W. Buy what you like? or Like what you buy? Its very different.

i was once told off by someone: "The world is so big out there and you are living in your own world." Take it with a pinch of salt, follow your heart/mind/soul. peace.

[celowsg]

Same as righteous_terre, I have been reading this thread for some time. I am myself a B&W owner and all my speakers are bought from TEG. I did not reply till now because I agree to some of the comments from DH and disagree with some. Same feeling for Jason as well. Somehow, righteous_terre's reply made me want to voice out too. :) I have to declare I am on neutral ground though.

 

B&W's branding had been tarnished by the previous distributer imho. They had overpriced B&W's products and provided bad service(personal experience and friend's). The damage remains till today which I believe why most of the seniors here had their reservations with TEG. With TEG, the pricing has already become more competitive than previously. I compared TEG's pricing with overseas especially in UK(trying to take advantage of the weak pounds) and they are slightly higher(by few hundreds) for most current models. But buying from TEG will enjoy local waranty and on top of these, TEG provided good customer service. Of course, there are some models that you can get from UK at cheaper price now. We have a choice to buy elsewhere if it is cheaper there. In this context, I agree with DH that pricing can still be improved. But I do have to take into account that Jason being a distributer had to take his dealer's interest into consideration and therefore being "forced" to hold the pricing for those models that his dealers carry. And that's why Jason would like us to talk to them personally and he will help whenever possible(I hope). Do give them a fair chance. On the other hand, I do hope Jason can improve the current situation. This is surely turning many of the customers away.

 

In audio, I believe everyone by now had realised that it is very personal. DH have his own preference as well (evident from his many posts). B&W does have its strength and weaknesses as does all other speakers. But I think B&W speakers does appeal to most in general in terms of it sounding as well as design and quality. Just like what DH and others had done, if you feel a particular B&W's model it is overpriced, move on to another speaker from other manufacturer. In time to come, the distributer will be "punished" for overpricing with falling sales and profit. But do give due credits if the distributer had done well.

 

Lastly, I do hope the future of this thread is for the many B&W owners to discuss their experiences with their speakers or update the community of any new products.

[DJQ]

thumbs up bro celowsg! now how about some pictures of your setup? heheh.

[celowsg]

Hi Bro DJQ, I will try to take some pictures of my humble setup. Need to tidy up the mess first :P.

[wyvern]

Recently had some dealings with TEG (by the way, I bought all my B&W speakers from KEC not TEG). There are always good and bad points for every dealer, distributor. To be fair to TEG, I had to relate my pleasant experience with them.

 

If you followed this thread, you would have noted that I 'complained' about the delivery of the tweeters for my CM1 sometime back. My CM1 tweeters were dented by my son then and I had to approach TEG for help to replace it.

 

Intially, I paid for both the parts and labour charges and certainly understand that warranty doesn't cover acts of neglience. However, when I went back to collect the speakers, I was surprise that they refunded me the labour charge as matter of goodwill despite the fact that I did not get the speakers from them.

 

As far as I can remember, I have never got such treatment from any service centre.

 

 

 

[jasonteong]

Hi all,

Was considering to post in my personal capacity (as a assurance to all the cynics, I have not used my personal ID for 3 years already) but decided against it or people will think I have double standards.  So i again place this message on behalf of TEG.

 

I think all the arguement fundamentally goes down to the issue of pricing. 

 

On this, TEG can only say that we view all developments in the long run and we will and need to take things, one small step at a time.  We need to protect the investments of past owners and will juggle between the interests of multiple stakeholders in the near future.

 

Thanks

Jason Teong

General Manager

The Experts Group Pte Ltd

Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei

Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore

e. & o. e.

 

[cstanxpl]

Well, I have to admit that I was very much interested in the B&W 685 as well.

 

Love the design of the Kevlar woofer since the beginning it was used.

 

But the high pricing kept me from purchasing it.

 

Monson quoted me S$9xx previously, while TEG quoted me S$10xx. Both before GST.

 

This led me to think, I could get the MA RS6 at S$12xx (before GST). The 685 is priced at £3xx while the RS6 at £6xx.

 

Therefore, the RS6 appears more VFM to me.

 

This is the same reason why I choose to purchase the marantz SA8003 at S$6xx instead of the NAD C545BEE which is also around S$6xx odd. The SA8003 is priced at £7xx and the NAD at £3xx in UK.

 

So there are customers like us that go for VFM stuff. Especially in times like these.

 

Unfortunely, this makes me (at least) unable to be a owner of B&W speakers, as it simply does not makes sense to purchase it.

 

My heart says yes, but my mind (and pocket) said no. My mind (and pocket) won. ;)

 

As others had commented, we can simply bring our hard earned money elsewhere. And this is what I will be doing.

 

::)

[jasonteong]

Monson quoted me S$9xx previously, while TEG quoted me S$10xx. Both before GST.

 

 

 

Hi,

Sorry, but I know that 685 is one of the models that we adopted the prices from Monsoon (due to various reasons).  The list prices was S$1120 in the past but we recently adjusted our list price down to S$1070 including GST. 

 

As for quotation, I cannot comment as it will be verbal and I guess you have not stepped into our showroom as well.

 

Regards

jason

 

 

 

 

[DJQ]

Well, I have to admit that I was very much interested in the B&W 685 as well.

Love the design of the Kevlar woofer since the beginning it was used.

But the high pricing kept me from purchasing it.

Monson quoted me S$9xx previously, while TEG quoted me S$10xx. Both before GST.

This led me to think, I could get the MA RS6 at S$12xx (before GST). The 685 is priced at £3xx while the RS6 at £6xx.

Therefore, the RS6 appears more VFM to me.

This is the same reason why I choose to purchase the marantz SA8003 at S$6xx instead of the NAD C545BEE which is also around S$6xx odd. The SA8003 is priced at £7xx and the NAD at £3xx in UK.

So there are customers like us that go for VFM stuff. Especially in times like these.

Unfortunely, this makes me (at least) unable to be a owner of B&W speakers, as it simply does not makes sense to purchase it.

My heart says yes, but my mind (and pocket) said no. My mind (and pocket) won. ;)

As others had commented, we can simply bring our hard earned money elsewhere. And this is what I will be doing.

::)

 

Hi bro, sorry that you felt that way. but if prices aside, did you actually do a A/B comparison on both speakers on the type to music you listened to? plus the type of equipment you are going to pair with? there is this price to performance ratio at work too.

IMHO if the new series were to be still geninuely made in UK. i will buy them at the mentioned $1k price tag. the VFM issue kicked in for me when they were assembled in China(which everyone thinks is supposed to reduce price with cheaper labour rental and production costs) but did not bring down the price but more with out 7%gst.

Never will anyone think production plants in China lets B&W continue to be more competitively priced to manufacture the entry level 6series to a wider market with also possible cheaper shipping costs. i never heard the MA RS6 before so i wont comment on it. since its priced higher it shouldnt be compared to the entry level 6series anymore, but more to the higher range CM series.

[cstanxpl]

Hi,

Sorry, but I know that 685 is one of the models that we adopted the prices from Monsoon (due to various reasons).  The list prices was S$1120 in the past but we recently adjusted our list price down to S$1070 including GST. 

 

As for quotation, I cannot comment as it will be verbal and I guess you have not stepped into our showroom as well.

 

Regards

jason

 

 

Nope, never step into your show room as yet. Travel past your showroom many times though. My office very near your show room.

 

But the price kept me away from even thinking about stepping in. Each time I went past your show room, there is an urge to step in. But unfortunately, my mind (and pocket) again, plays that silly trick on me. Telling me it's not VFM.

 

Again, in times like these, VFM products are those that I look for.

 

I'm not looking for prestige or history on a product. If it sounds good, I'm OK with it.

 

A

Nope, never step into your show room as yet. Travel past your showroom many times though. My office very near your show room.

 

But the price kept me away from even thinking about stepping in. Each time I went past your show room, there is an urge to step in. But unfortunately, my mind (and pocket) again, plays that silly trick on me. Telling me it's not VFM.

 

Again, in times like these, VFM products are those that I look for.

 

A £6xx speakers, I would say, would sound better than £3xx speakers?

 

Anyway, the RS6 is the one I'm aiming for now.

 

Using marantz SA8003 & PM8003 integrated amp. The B&W 685 and MA RS6 sould be a good match for them.  ;D

 

 

[Crazyfrites]

I remember walking into the TEG showroom with my wife for the 1st time last year. It was rather 'intimidating'  initially as my wife put it (cuz of bad experiences with other audio shops). But I believe we were served by Jason and I have to say that he was really friendly n patient with us even though we were clueless about what we were looking for.

 

To sum up it was a very positive experience even though we didn't buy anything. In fact, till today, my wife is still bugging me about getting the pair of CM7! Somehow women's hearing is better than men! They can somehow hear details that otherwise is missed by us!  ;D I am sure 1 day I will fulfill her wish of having that pair of CM7 (think by that time, CM7 stop production liao)  :P

 

The whole episode goes to show that sometime pay a little bit more (if not need abit more even better...hahaha) for sound of mind and strong customer service goes hand in hand. I have bought items from shops selling me at better discount but crappy after sales service is a nightmare. Like buying car n insurance, before buying, can see the salesperson's  ;D; after sales is done, you can't even reach them or see any teeth!   >:(

[jasonteong]

hi CStanxpl,

Perhaps when you drop by, I tell all sales person that we will not sell you anything.

 

I think VFM has wide definitions.  Perhaps you will listen to the 685 and tag a value to its sound after you have heared it.   685 again won the group tests in What Hifi's latest April issues.  

 

No one will pitch any sales.  Just declare you are CSTanxpl... :) no one will push any sales. 

 

cheers

jason

[cstanxpl]

Hi bro, sorry that you felt that way. but if prices aside, did you actually do a A/B comparison on both speakers on the type to music you listened to? plus the type of equipment you are going to pair with? there is this price to performance ratio at work too.

IMHO if the new series were to be still geninuely made in UK. i will buy them at the mentioned $1k price tag. the VFM issue kicked in for me when they were assembled in China(which everyone thinks is supposed to reduce price with cheaper labour rental and production costs) but did not bring down the price but more with out 7%gst.

Never will anyone think production plants in China lets B&W continue to be more competitively priced to manufacture the entry level 6series to a wider market with also possible cheaper shipping costs. i never heard the MA RS6 before so i wont comment on it. since its priced higher it shouldnt be compared to the entry level 6series anymore, but more to the higher range CM series.

 

The B&W 685 and MA RS6 both should be MIC. Can't remember where I read that before. But Jason should be able to confirm that. Therefore, I do expect them to be more VFM actually. Just like the marantz SA/PM8003 that I have. They are MIC and compared to UK prices, it is VVFM in S'pore.

 

You mentioned that the RS6 should be compared to the CM range. The problem is, if you compare the price in S'pore, the 600s range already looks like a higher range than the RS range from MA. The RS6 should be compared to the 684. The 684 is £7xx while the RS6 is £6xx. How much is the 684 selling in S'pore? I dare not even ask for a quote. Really.

 

Anyway, no point arguing and comparing about all these. The fact is the 685 cost S$10xx. The RS6 coast S$12xx. There is no doubt about th eprices here. I think whether VFM or not depends on the individual.

 

:)

 

 

 

[cstanxpl]

hi CStanxpl,

Perhaps when you drop by, I tell all sales person that we will not sell you anything.

 

I think VFM has wide definitions.  Perhaps you will listen to the 685 and tag a value to its sound after you have heared it.   685 again won the group tests in What Hifi's latest April issues.  

 

No one will pitch any sales.  Just declare you are CSTanxpl... :) no one will push any sales. 

 

cheers

jason

 

Hi Jason, either I am reading this the wrong way or I am actually raedling what I am reading.

 

If this is your respond, you can be sure I will never step foot into your show room. Neither will I even take a look at any B&W speakers from your dealers.

 

End of story.  :P