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Rec. 709

ISF Calibration Photos

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Hi all!

 

In addition to writing reviews here, I'm also an ISF Certified Calibrator with 7 years experience and the owner of clarity audio & video calibration, in Adelaide SA (although I do service some other states). With Marc's kind permission, I thought I would start a thread to share some of the photos of actual TV's and Projectors that I have calibrated. If people are interested, I will pop back from time to time and add more photos. 

 

To get things started I have attached a couple of photos, taken directly from a calibrated LG 65EG960T (4K OLED). Scenes are from the latest Spears & Munsil calibration disc (which the kind authors have given me permission to use). 

 

 

 

post-141768-0-55767400-1472011118_thumb.

post-141768-0-33987800-1472011119_thumb.

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I think it would be of more interest if there was a 'Pre' & 'Post' calibration photo.

 

Just saying, as I'd hazard a guess, that a lot of people here would be viewing the photos on un calibrated screens, making any difference observable by them, small at best.

 

But if like me, that does have calibrated screens, and , we are more than interested on how you found calibrating the newest 4K OLED screens, and what your procedure is for 3D calibration.

 

I'm not in any sort of competition with you, I'm just a old CRT projector owner that has moved on, and decided to bite the bullet on getting some reasonably accurate calibration gear, as you do.

If you have ever been tortured with 3 lens CRT PJ set up by yourself, purely with a AVIA test disc and a couple of printouts of Guy Kudo's calibration posts from the AVS/ HTPC forums, I'm sure you can appreciate when I'm coming from.

Edited by Tweaky

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I saw the first pic before I read the post and I thought it was an actual photo of a lighthouse, so well done.

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Hi Tweaky,

 

Sorry it took me a little while to get back to you.

 

I have to be careful with taking photos, as I really have to pick the client before asking. I have a few purely 'post- calibration' photos I will share in the future, but I agree with you pre/post calibration comparison photos are a great idea and I will start doing this in future. Frankly, I'm not sure why I hadn't already thought of this! :-)

 

I'm always happy to help where I can. If you would like to shoot me a PM when can arrange a time to have a chat over the phone if you like?

 

 

 

I think it would be of more interest if there was a 'Pre' & 'Post' calibration photo.

 

Just saying, as I'd hazard a guess, that a lot of people here would be viewing the photos on un calibrated screens, making any difference observable by them, small at best.

 

But if like me, that does have calibrated screens, and , we are more than interested on how you found calibrating the newest 4K OLED screens, and what your procedure is for 3D calibration.

 

I'm not in any sort of competition with you, I'm just a old CRT projector owner that has moved on, and decided to bite the bullet on getting some reasonably accurate calibration gear, as you do.

If you have ever been tortured with 3 lens CRT PJ set up by yourself, purely with a AVIA test disc and a couple of printouts of Guy Kudo's calibration posts from the AVS/ HTPC forums, I'm sure you can appreciate when I'm coming from.

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Thanks so much  Sime. Although I have been doing this for a while, I still love getting feedback! hmm.... does that make me vain? ;-)

 

I saw the first pic before I read the post and I thought it was an actual photo of a lighthouse, so well done.

Edited by Rec. 709

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Accurate calibration is critical for any decent display ,TV or projector imo.

I had my JVC X500 4k e shift projector professionally ISF calibrated earlier this year and the improvement in picture is stunning !

Not just more accurate colours but clarity and sharpness are also significantly improved.

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Thank you so much for sharing.

Could I also please ask for pre and post photos. 

A bit of commentary on the pre and post photos won't hurt either.

I have three Panasonic plasmas, I better get of my bum and get them calibrated.

Edited by Jventer

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This client  had been told that he could get a much better picture from his Samsung JU7500, but was a little skeptical as he already thought the picture was great. After a nice little drive through the Adelaide hills, I was shown the JU7500 in question. First impressions were not good... the picture was way too cool, which skewed all of the colours significantly. To top it all off, there was significant edge enhancement, which robbed the picture of detail. Although the photo (pre-cal pic) didn't capture all the edge enhancement  the excessive blue is quite obvious.

 

After profiling my colorimeter against my i1pro2 spectro I took some initial measurements, which confirmed what could be seen (pre-cal measurements). You can see in the second diagram that the white point is shifted towards blue and it has also skewed magenta and cyan significantly.... actually I'm not quite sure that we could call it Magenta anymore! In addition, the gamma was way too low, which resulted in lousy black levels,increased noise and an overall 'flat' lifeless picture.

 

After configuring the basic controls and completing grayscale, gamma and CMS and then double checking everything, things were looking a lot better a better...on paper at least (post- cal measurements). With my test scenes the JU7500 looked dramatically different.  Gone was all the noise (I did need to touch up the sharpness control a little by eye) and colours looked far more natural (the main colour control by was touched up by eye). (post-cal picture). Another benefit was the extra detail... after disabling all of the usual 'nasties' in the user menus and dialling in black levels and gamma, there was a lot of extra detail to be found in the picture and overall there was a great amount of depth to the picture. All in all the client was very happy!

 

I hope including a bit of commentary and pre & post calibration photos has been of some use to you guys? This JU7500 was a bit extreme on how far it was out before I arrived, but nonetheless serves as a good example (particularly when you take into account the photos didn't capture everything).

 

pre cal pic.jpg

pre cal measurements.gif

post-cal-measurements.gif

post cal pic.jpg

Edited by Rec. 709
Grammar

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6 hours ago, Rec. 709 said:

Always happy to travel if there's enough interest.

 

 

I had that chap from Melbourne here in March, forgotten his name …………

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Thought I would share some photos that I managed to snap during the calibration of a JVC projector. While I can get away with some ambient light in the room when calibrating a TV (the meter sits flush against the screen as seen in my profile picture), when calibrating a projector the meter is tripod mounted and aimed at the screen, so there needs to be no ambient light in the room. If it's not a dedicated theatre room, this means the calibration needs to be completed at night... needless to say, I'm not a fan of daylight savings! ;-)

 

The meter is a display 3 colorimeter, which has been profiled against my i1pro2 spectroradiometer to ensure accuracy. The first photo was taken during greyscale calibration and the second during gamma (EOTF) calibration. When calibrating greyscale and gamma, it's a case of going back and forth as one effects the other... touch up gamma and it can throw out the greyscale and vice a versa. The third photo is CMS (colour management system) calibration, where all the primary colours (red, green & blue) and secondary colours (cyan, yellow and magenta) are adjusted to achieve the HD standard for colour (Rec. 709). Once all the steps are completed it's time to make sure everything is working as it should be and none of the adjustments have thrown out any of the earlier adjustments I made. Lastly, everything's checked to make sure it looks good with actual viewing material.

 

 

JVC greyscale.jpg

JVC Gamma.jpg

JVC CMS.jpg

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You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with *&%^$#* laser beams attached to their heads! Now evidently my cycloptic colleague informs me that that can't be done. Ah, would you remind me what I pay you people for.? Honestly? Throw me a bone here! What do we have? Epsons Elite EH-LS10000 LCD laser projector. First shot is prior to calibration, second two shots are after calibration. Please forgive my poor sense of humour, it is Friday after all!

20160915_180100(0).jpg

20160915_175923.jpg

20160915_175750.jpg

Edited by Rec. 709

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Thank's for the before and after shots, they are far more revealing of what people are happy to think is 'OK' TV setup wise- compared to what it should look like.

I'm not surprised with that Samsung being too cool and way high in the Blue, I find every Samsung TV I see is setup the same, the usual fix by those who don't know anything about this calibration stuff is to turn the colour up :( which makes the TV look like some artificially coloured Ice cream.

 

Sony's TV's [which I own] on the other hand tend to be shifted to the Red.

 

The Epsom Laser PJ looks OK colour wise uncalibrated, it's sort of a Kodachrome [uncalibrated] V's Ecktachrome look [showing my age ]

I'm guessing grey tracking was the biggest change maker, followed by a Red/Magenta reduction of a few points

 

I use ChromaPure Pro calibration software and a Xrite i1Display pro meter, it works well enough for my needs and relatives /  friends that I occasionally offer to calibrate their visuals for them.

 

How are you finding peoples reaction to the new 'Calibrated TV/PJ' ?

Do you leave a preset of their previously uncalibrated TV settings programmed on the TV so they can compare the differences?

I've found quite a few people somewhat underwhelmed when seeing their newly correctly calibrated display, it seems to take them a few days, if not a week for them to get used to it.

I always keep a copy of their previous settings hidden away on another preset on their display, then around 2 weeks in I'll tell them about it and get them to switch between the two..... then they understand what they were watching before was unrealistic

 

I also use a inexpensive LUX meter to measure in room ambient light before I start calibrating, I put the meter at the viewing seat, then ask the home owner to set the lighting to what would be the norm, I find it best to do this fist to get the Grey tracking correct, after all, evreything else you do calibration wise, is built onto that base, so you might as well get the brightness/ contrast correct for those lighting conditions...... quite a few times I've calibrated a PJ,only to later find that the owner usually has a corner lamp on etc when viewing, which they haven't previously told you about.

Edited by Tweaky

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15 hours ago, Tweaky said:

Thank's for the before and after shots, they are far more revealing of what people are happy to think is 'OK' TV setup wise- compared to what it should look like.

I'm not surprised with that Samsung being too cool and way high in the Blue, I find every Samsung TV I see is setup the same, the usual fix by those who don't know anything about this calibration stuff is to turn the colour up :( which makes the TV look like some artificially coloured Ice cream.

 

Sony's TV's [which I own] on the other hand tend to be shifted to the Red.

 

The Epsom Laser PJ looks OK colour wise uncalibrated, it's sort of a Kodachrome [uncalibrated] V's Ecktachrome look [showing my age ]

I'm guessing grey tracking was the biggest change maker, followed by a Red/Magenta reduction of a few points

 

I use ChromaPure Pro calibration software and a Xrite i1Display pro meter, it works well enough for my needs and relatives /  friends that I occasionally offer to calibrate their visuals for them.

 

How are you finding peoples reaction to the new 'Calibrated TV/PJ' ?

Do you leave a preset of their previously uncalibrated TV settings programmed on the TV so they can compare the differences?

I've found quite a few people somewhat underwhelmed when seeing their newly correctly calibrated display, it seems to take them a few days, if not a week for them to get used to it.

I always keep a copy of their previous settings hidden away on another preset on their display, then around 2 weeks in I'll tell them about it and get them to switch between the two..... then they understand what they were watching before was unrealistic

 

I also use a inexpensive LUX meter to measure in room ambient light before I start calibrating, I put the meter at the viewing seat, then ask the home owner to set the lighting to what would be the norm, I find it best to do this fist to get the Grey tracking correct, after all, evreything else you do calibration wise, is built onto that base, so you might as well get the brightness/ contrast correct for those lighting conditions...... quite a few times I've calibrated a PJ,only to later find that the owner usually has a corner lamp on etc when viewing, which they haven't previously told you about.

If you're not going to get your Epson projector calibrated, "Natural" is probably the best choice. I actually spent quite a lot more time than I'm used to on greyscale with the projector. After calibrating using 30% and 80% windows, there was still a HUGE amount of error at 10%. Trying to reduce this as much as possible without messing up the rest of the range took some time. While bias/gain controls usually interact a far amount, with the Epson it was more so than usual. Once greyscale was right, there was very little left to do with the CMS.

 

I think what you're doing with getting them to compare a couple of weeks later is a great idea. I try to talk to people about what they can expect from a calibration, more natural looking picture etc. I also spend a bit of time with them after the calibration to explain the differences and go back and forth between their un-calibrated mode (when available) and the calibrated mode. When I first started I used to keep pre-calibrated settings, but I don't anymore. 

 

Thanks for the feedback Tweaky, have a great weekend!

 

 

Edited by Rec. 709

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on previous epsons eco-thx i found was actually very close to calibration results…. main problem with epsons where people go off eco to higher lamp outputs all of which send colour accuracy out the window...

 

709 wish were in melb would give you a run on my jvc….even though have what i need to do an auto cal…. just been time poor . similarly still yet to get my mind around bt2020 and HDR setup beyond some basic setup for uhd which gives great result but am sure could go further :)

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I ended up calibrating this one in THX mode. My client wanted much more light than I would normally use. When I arrived he was running it in high lamp mode

Hehe... one day :) al. Marc keeps asking when I'm coming to Melbourne to do his projector too.

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Rec.709, a few questions for you.

1] How do you go about calibrating for different sources in a typical HT setup, that being all sources run into a surround amp that only uses the one HDMI out from amp to display ?

I'm expecting the answer of 'You can't', unless the source has independent controls that allow adjustments to be made.[Or using a outboard visual processor ]

If that is the case, what source do you 'Normalize to' - to use a Pro Audio term.

 

I use Playstations 3 & 4 for disc playback, for which the Display has been calibrated for, as that is what I view the most, but when viewing from my Panasonic HD recorder, the colours are over saturated, and there is nothing I can do about it .... well I suppose I could make a exception running independent audio to the amp, and visual direct to the display via a different input, but that just a total PITA, if only for remembering the input switching dance I would end up having to do.

 

One would have hoped that all sources using HDMI would be at the same level, but this clearly isn't the case.

I find it surprising that some of the more up market HT amps that have separate chips used solely for video processing, don't have any user controls that could be used to 'Normalize' all video sources to look the same via a single HDMI output, it would certainly make life easier for those that had calibration gear.

 

2] Any recommendations on calibrating Displays for 3D Playback ?

I haven't attempted a separate calibration for 3D, as I'm not sure where to start.

Basically any new Bluray that comes out in 3D I get, so I do watch 3D quite a lot

The huge jump in the brightness levels any display is asked to output when playing back 3D content are obvious, so I suppose that is where one should start...but how to go about it ???....is there a 3D test disc?

I suppose if I knew the precise level jump in Brightness/Contrast 3D discs tell the display to turn to, when receiving a 3D signal, I could calibrate grey tracking at those higher output levels, and try and get it the best I could on a separate preset on the display, then send it out via my HT amp via a 2nd HDMI output, into that separate display input calibrated solely for 3D playback.

 

3] Best practice for calibrating a PJ with Dynamic Iris.

I have a 'Now Dead' Sony PJ [Ironically bought a new Lamp for it 2 weeks before it died ] that has a Dynamic Iris.

I never got to use the ChromaPure / i1Display Pro calibration gear on it, it died while I was waiting for it to warm up to calibrate ....sad but true ....since Sony has NO official service centers [it out sources everything, same for it's cameras] getting it repaired is basically not worth my while, I might as well buy a new PJ...which will still have a Dynamic Iris, so the question is still relevant

 

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21 hours ago, Tweaky said:

Rec.709, a few questions for you.

1] How do you go about calibrating for different sources in a typical HT setup, that being all sources run into a surround amp that only uses the one HDMI out from amp to display ?

I'm expecting the answer of 'You can't', unless the source has independent controls that allow adjustments to be made.[Or using a outboard visual processor ]

If that is the case, what source do you 'Normalize to' - to use a Pro Audio term.

 

I use Playstations 3 & 4 for disc playback, for which the Display has been calibrated for, as that is what I view the most, but when viewing from my Panasonic HD recorder, the colours are over saturated, and there is nothing I can do about it .... well I suppose I could make a exception running independent audio to the amp, and visual direct to the display via a different input, but that just a total PITA, if only for remembering the input switching dance I would end up having to do.

 

One would have hoped that all sources using HDMI would be at the same level, but this clearly isn't the case.

I find it surprising that some of the more up market HT amps that have separate chips used solely for video processing, don't have any user controls that could be used to 'Normalize' all video sources to look the same via a single HDMI output, it would certainly make life easier for those that had calibration gear.

 

2] Any recommendations on calibrating Displays for 3D Playback ?

I haven't attempted a separate calibration for 3D, as I'm not sure where to start.

Basically any new Bluray that comes out in 3D I get, so I do watch 3D quite a lot

The huge jump in the brightness levels any display is asked to output when playing back 3D content are obvious, so I suppose that is where one should start...but how to go about it ???....is there a 3D test disc?

I suppose if I knew the precise level jump in Brightness/Contrast 3D discs tell the display to turn to, when receiving a 3D signal, I could calibrate grey tracking at those higher output levels, and try and get it the best I could on a separate preset on the display, then send it out via my HT amp via a 2nd HDMI output, into that separate display input calibrated solely for 3D playback.

 

3] Best practice for calibrating a PJ with Dynamic Iris.

I have a 'Now Dead' Sony PJ [Ironically bought a new Lamp for it 2 weeks before it died ] that has a Dynamic Iris.

I never got to use the ChromaPure / i1Display Pro calibration gear on it, it died while I was waiting for it to warm up to calibrate ....sad but true ....since Sony has NO official service centers [it out sources everything, same for it's cameras] getting it repaired is basically not worth my while, I might as well buy a new PJ...which will still have a Dynamic Iris, so the question is still relevant

 

Hi Tweaky,

 

1) Correct,  if there are no other calibration controls in the video path, you're calibrating for the best source, usually bluray. While it's great to have controls elsewhere in the video path, the controls can sometimes be quite course and end up being creating more problems than they fix.

2) 3D calibration is pretty much the same as 2D calibration, with the exception that you want to aim the metre through the glasses. This will take into account the drop in brightness and any colour shift the glasses are introducing. The downside of this is it's awkward and you need a completely light controlled room (darkness).

3) Dynamic Iris can really mess with gamma measurements. I tend to evaluate if it's needed on a case by case basis. Rule of thumb is to turn it off prior to calibration and then re-engage it after calibration. If you take measurements with and without dynamic iris engaged, you get a much better idea of what it's up to.

 

Cheers,

 

Tony

Edited by Rec. 709

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Thanks for that info.

I could see metering though 3D glasses working with Passive 3D, like on LG TV's, but the constant flickering of active 3D specs would surely throw the meter into a confused state.

 

On further thinking about this problem, I think I've worked out a suitable solution to it.

Basically different active 3D spec's seem slightly lighter or darker compared to each other, when in their OFF/DARK position, having sat on and destroyed several different models of Sony 3D specs, I know this as a fact.

 

I experimented with a cheap photographic variable neutral density filter [like one in the link below], and eyeballed it till I got both the filter and the glasses when at their darkest, matching, which took under 15 sec, since this is only for getting Grey scale correct, the slight colour cast the cheap filter adds doesn't effect the readings.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/58mm-Slim-Adjustable-ND-Fader-Variable-ND2-4-8-to-ND400-Neutral-Density-Filter/131907178958?_trksid=p2045573.c100506.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555014%26algo%3DPL.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190705%26meid%3Db50f0af2bd494299b501711608462db3%26pid%3D100506%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26

 

Now I can put the filter in front of the meter and not worry about the glasses flickering and effecting the readings, it's also easy to have the filter sit flush against the meter.

 

But, in saying that, to account for the colour cast of the glasses ...... well again I'd probably use my photographic gear,.... shoot a photo of a colour chart from the TV straight through the lens, and another of the same chart through the glasses, both in RAW, then have a look at them side by side in Lightroom and note the differences in the readings for Red, Blue and Green.

 

With those readings I could create a overlay filter that exactly mimics the colour cast the specs add, then run metering as normal with that overlay filter engaged, emulating the 3D spec without all the hassle.

 

Edited by Tweaky

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16 hours ago, Tweaky said:

Thanks for that info.

I could see metering though 3D glasses working with Passive 3D, like on LG TV's, but the constant flickering of active 3D specs would surely throw the meter into a confused state.

 

On further thinking about this problem, I think I've worked out a suitable solution to it.

Basically different active 3D spec's seem slightly lighter or darker compared to each other, when in their OFF/DARK position, having sat on and destroyed several different models of Sony 3D specs, I know this as a fact.

 

I experimented with a cheap photographic variable neutral density filter [like one in the link below], and eyeballed it till I got both the filter and the glasses when at their darkest, matching, which took under 15 sec, since this is only for getting Grey scale correct, the slight colour cast the cheap filter adds doesn't effect the readings.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/58mm-Slim-Adjustable-ND-Fader-Variable-ND2-4-8-to-ND400-Neutral-Density-Filter/131907178958?_trksid=p2045573.c100506.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555014%26algo%3DPL.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190705%26meid%3Db50f0af2bd494299b501711608462db3%26pid%3D100506%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26

 

Now I can put the filter in front of the meter and not worry about the glasses flickering and effecting the readings, it's also easy to have the filter sit flush against the meter.

 

But, in saying that, to account for the colour cast of the glasses ...... well again I'd probably use my photographic gear,.... shoot a photo of a colour chart from the TV straight through the lens, and another of the same chart through the glasses, both in RAW, then have a look at them side by side in Lightroom and note the differences in the readings for Red, Blue and Green.

 

With those readings I could create a overlay filter that exactly mimics the colour cast the specs add, then run metering as normal with that overlay filter engaged, emulating the 3D spec without all the hassle.

 

 

To get an accurate gauge on what's happening in 3D it's a good idea to calibrate through the glasses. The flickering of active glasses won't mess with a spectro and it shouldn't mess with a decent/accurate colorimeter. As the amount of colour shift introduced through the glasses can be substantial, it's important to know exactly what's going on. I still get surprised by just how much colour shift glasses introduce and often check with a spectacled eye to make sure my meter's not lying to me! ;-)

 

When you're calibrating for 3D shoot through one of the lenses of the glasses (make sure they're on if their active) and use 3D test patterns. Don the 3D glasses from time to time to make sure you're happy with what the meter's telling you. Oh... you may also find that you don't have as many calibration controls to work with in 3D mode.

 

 

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On 17/09/2016 at 9:41 AM, Rec. 709 said:


I ended up calibrating this one in THX mode. My client wanted much more light than I would normally use. When I arrived he was running it in high lamp mode

Hehe... one day :) al. Marc keeps asking when I'm coming to Melbourne to do his projector too.

 

I'll have a new one soon so we might need to find you some more PJs for you to calibrate at once while in Melbourne.

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I'll have a new one soon so we might need to find you some more PJs for you to calibrate at once while in Melbourne.



Will have to get over soon, have been talking about it for a while now. :)

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