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What stone is best for TT's: Marble/Granite/Slate?

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Goodaye all

 

Our yard at Nunawading does stone.

They do a lot of Bluestone and get custom made stuff done in China.

 

l have a Bluestone plinth under my Sansui AU70 with  a fan built in.

 

In the new year l am going to build a new Hifi rack and TV stand.

Its going to involve 2 1500*500 slabs fitted to a steel frame.

Just havent come up with ends, stone, steel or wood.

 

regards Bruce

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9 hours ago, ninjagaijin said:

Does anyone know where I could find some stone appropriate for a Technics 1200 to absorb bass vibration (from a bass speaker) - I need an 'odd' size of 45cm x 50cm (due to having oversized 'boots' for my feet, and wanting even bigger ones - the MKstands over feet). I've been looking around but can only find other sizes. 45 x 50 (x2) is the only size that will easily fit on my DJ booth. I looked at some paving slabs from Bunnings but they didn't seem level, the bottom wasn't smooth at all. I figured I could have sanded it off but I don't have any tools for that..

For bass vibration forget the stone and get these: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Isonoe-Turntable-Isolation-Feet-Set-Of-Four-Silver/264308175589

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The only thing stone will do is make what ever your turntable is sitting on more heavy, which may help with vibration coming from the turntable stand.

Best to have a very solid well anchored stand and isolate the turntable away from the speakers best you can.

My stand is mounted on a wall stud that goes to a bottom plate sitting on concrete and I have sound insulation panels surrounding it. Not perfect but pretty good for what I have.

You can test out how well isolated your turntable is by putting the stylus on a record without it turning and slowly turning up the volume till you get noise. The louder you go the better the isolation. You can also use this method to test for footfall. I have to jump to get any vibrations from my suspended wooden floor. 

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3 hours ago, sloper said:

Goodaye all

 

Our yard at Nunawading does stone.

They do a lot of Bluestone and get custom made stuff done in China.

 

l have a Bluestone plinth under my Sansui AU70 with  a fan built in.

 

In the new year l am going to build a new Hifi rack and TV stand.

Its going to involve 2 1500*500 slabs fitted to a steel frame.

Just havent come up with ends, stone, steel or wood.

 

regards Bruce

Bruce, do you work at Nunawading Slate and Stone near Bunnings? 

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ColSmith at Doncaster but Nunawading does stone.

 

regards Bruce

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Mike Lenahan makes a excellent isolation platform for turntables, not cheap but at least it’s designed for purpose where as most stone or wood plinths I have seen look more like they are there to look good.

 

cheers Terry

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I'm now keen on this thread.  I'll be placing my TT into (not on) a custom built cabinet as a wall mounted shelf won't work for me.  Looking to isolate the TT from the cabinet, so currently thinking some (yet to be determined) isolation feet under a slab of ....

 

  • Travertine/limestone;
  • Bluestone;
  • Granite;
  • Sandstone;
  • Slate.

 

Is thicker better, or not really going to make a difference with isolation feet?

Will the material really make that much of a difference?

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2 hours ago, Kaynin said:

I'm now keen on this thread.  I'll be placing my TT into (not on) a custom built cabinet as a wall mounted shelf won't work for me.  Looking to isolate the TT from the cabinet, so currently thinking some (yet to be determined) isolation feet under a slab of ....

 

  • Travertine/limestone;
  • Bluestone;
  • Granite;
  • Sandstone;
  • Slate.

 

Is thicker better, or not really going to make a difference with isolation feet?

Will the material really make that much of a difference?

Which turntable?

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29 minutes ago, Peter_F said:

Which turntable?

Music Hall MMF 7.1.

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3 hours ago, Kaynin said:

I'm now keen on this thread.  I'll be placing my TT into (not on) a custom built cabinet as a wall mounted shelf won't work for me.  Looking to isolate the TT from the cabinet, so currently thinking some (yet to be determined) isolation feet under a slab of ....

 

  • Travertine/limestone;
  • Bluestone;
  • Granite;
  • Sandstone;
  • Slate.

 

Is thicker better, or not really going to make a difference with isolation feet?

Will the material really make that much of a difference?

 

In a previous house, I did exactly what you are wanting to do.  :thumb:

 

My thoughts are as follows:

  • sandstone/slate is better than marble or granite (there is a description of the type of stone the former is ... but I forget it :( )
  • thickness doesn't matter - as long as it's at least 25mm
  • yes, the material you use does make a difference.

 

I chose a 25mm slate slab under my LP12.  With 8 squash balls underneath it.  IOW air isolation.

 

The isolation I was able to get with this setup is confirmed by the following:

  1. I have an Ortofon ultrasonic stylus cleaner.
  2. you rest this on the TT mat, rest the stylus on the pad ... and switch it on, to clean the stylus.
  3. it emits a 'buzz'.
  4. knocking the benchtop with my knuckles ... you could hear the buzz modulate with the (transmission of the) knuckle raps.
  5. once my slate slab + squash balls was under the LP12 ... I could hit the benchtop with a hammer - and the stylus cleaner's buzz wouldn't modulate.
  6. so perfect isolation!  :)

Andy

 

 

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5 hours ago, andyr said:

 

In a previous house, I did exactly what you are wanting to do.  :thumb:

 

My thoughts are as follows:

  • sandstone/slate is better than marble or granite (there is a description of the type of stone the former is ... but I forget it :( )
  • thickness doesn't matter - as long as it's at least 25mm
  • yes, the material you use does make a difference.

 

I chose a 25mm slate slab under my LP12.  With 8 squash balls underneath it.  IOW air isolation.

 

The isolation I was able to get with this setup is confirmed by the following:

  1. I have an Ortofon ultrasonic stylus cleaner.
  2. you rest this on the TT mat, rest the stylus on the pad ... and switch it on, to clean the stylus.
  3. it emits a 'buzz'.
  4. knocking the benchtop with my knuckles ... you could hear the buzz modulate with the (transmission of the) knuckle raps.
  5. once my slate slab + squash balls was under the LP12 ... I could hit the benchtop with a hammer - and the stylus cleaner's buzz wouldn't modulate.
  6. so perfect isolation!  :)

Andy

 

 

 

 

Great information Andy, thanks for sharing.  I do recall you have previously mentioned squash balls.  I take it you just place the 8 balls strategically to ensure a level slab?

 

One dot, two dot, larger or smaller squash balls?  9_9

 

It's certainly made my choice easier, slate or sandstone it is.  I'll have 60mm to work with, so 25mm thick is fine.  :)

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Forget sandstone, it gives off grit.

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1 hour ago, t_mike said:

Forget sandstone, it gives off grit.

 

Will sealing it prevent this, or does that have to be re-applied over time?

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10 hours ago, Kaynin said:

 

Great information Andy, thanks for sharing.  I do recall you have previously mentioned squash balls.  I take it you just place the 8 balls strategically to ensure a level slab?

 

 

There is an optimum weight load on each squash ball ... ~3kg per ball.  So use 4, 6 or 8 - depending on how heavy your TT is.

 

I made (and painted) little oblong 'fences' for mine - which could take 2 balls each (so I probably actually wasn't putting enough load on each ball), however, resting each ball on a plastic milk bottle top works well, to keep them from rolling around.

 

10 hours ago, Kaynin said:

 

One dot, two dot, larger or smaller squash balls?  9_9

 

 

Sorry, I can't remember (actually, I'm not sure mine had any dots??).  Squash balls are surely one size ... maybe 'racquet balls' are larger?

 

10 hours ago, Kaynin said:

 

It's certainly made my choice easier, slate or sandstone it is.  I'll have 60mm to work with, so 25mm thick is fine.  :)

 

 

'Sedimentary' rock was the word I was trying to think of.

 

In terms of t_mike's comment about sandstone giving off grit - I can imagine this is probably true.  But sealing it will prevent this - and I would've thought would last for ever.  Oiling slate makes it look more attractive.

 

Good luck,

 

Andy

 

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Hi guys

 

If I may respond to various bits and pieces of this thread, and to no-one in particular, other than the thread-starter.

 

Squash balls come in 40, 45 and 60mm,  but it's safe to assume 40mm is the general purpose ball.

 

Squash ball dots come in blue, red, yellow and double yellow, in order of increasing energy absorption.  Unfortunately, squash balls are deliberately designed to change their energy absorption with temperature, which is the opposite of desirable under a turntable. But with good climate control in your listening room, plus patient vibration measurements with the various ball colours under your TT, you could find the right 'dot' for your needs and stick to it.

 

Stone is inherently not a good material for a turntable support. Slate is absolutely terrible, and its good reputation as a turntable support is a 'ringing' endorsement of the power of suggestion and groupthink.  The idea, that metamorphosed mud behaves like mud, fails logic in the same way as the idea that diamond behaves like wood. I once saw some patient measurements of the damping of many materials, including a number of stones, and slate was one of the biggest ringers. Of course, there is no accounting for actually liking the effect of adding resonances to one's hifi. That is, as they say, a matter of taste.  But, if you are interested in resonance control, slate is the opposite of what you need. Same for stone in general.  

 

Personally, I think that the engineering principles are much better applied if you mount your TTs directly on an anti-vibration material, and that goes directly on your shelf. A custom-designed anti-vibration material, like Angelstep that I use, is going to be much more consistent than squash balls, in various room temperatures, and in situations like sunshine coming through a window onto the TT at certain times. The supporting shelf and its characteristics will then be isolated from the TT, and its materials become much less important, as long as it is basically steady and level.

 

Remember that, if Rega's Roy Gandy is right (and no doubt he used measurements to get these numbers), then the structure-borne vibrations are 40 dB below the air-borne vibrations impacting a TT, unless you literally stand the TT on the same springy floorboards as the speakers. So, as long as the fundamentals are not ignored, the modern trend to emphasize very heavy supports and, even, active isolation platforms, is unnecessary. Much bigger gains will come from moving the TT into another room, or putting it in a sound-isolation box, like the noisy old dot-matrix printers used to have in offices. Whether they are willing to do this is the "test of truth" for many TT owners, where they are forced to decide if they are willing to sacrifice convenience and visual appearances for sonic gains. In my experience, the majority can't pass this test. 😊

 

cheers

Grant

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@Grant Slack  I like the humour in your post. 

 

Yes squash balls do vary in size, and energy absorption to dampen bounce.  The 2 dots are competition level, and provide the least bounce when playing, so the most energy absorption.  I was considering those...

 

Angel Step looks interesting.  Their Angel Step 630 is "acoustic underlay for vinyl" - perfect!  lol

 

Do you recall which one of their products you used?

Do you have a section just for underneath the TT feet, or the whole plinth/shelf?

 

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Guest Muon N'

When I compared Sand Stone to a Bamboo block, the result was better with the Bamboo.

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33 minutes ago, Kaynin said:

Yes squash balls do vary in size, and energy absorption to dampen bounce.  The 2 dots are competition level, and provide the least bounce when playing, so the most energy absorption.  I was considering those...

 

But they are meant to be used at elevated temperatures.  For cold use, maybe they will be too soft.

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13 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

But they are meant to be used at elevated temperatures. 

 

...for playing squash.  It's still plausible that they will be very effective for this alternate purpose though.

 

I certainly don't discount @andyr's testing and effective results, and how he achieved it.

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22 minutes ago, Muon N' said:

When I compared Sand Stone to a Bamboo block, the result was better with the Bamboo.

 

Did you have those supported in any way?  And, if so, were they supported the same?

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7 minutes ago, Kaynin said:

 

...for playing squash.  It's still plausible that they will be very effective for this alternate purpose though.

 

 

I agree, K - but at low temps ... maybe the dots don't matter?

 

Quote

 

I certainly don't discount @andyr's testing and effective results, and how he achieved it.

 

 

My testing simply showed that with a heavy slab (needed to get the squash balls to "work" properly) and air isolation ... hitting a hammer on the benchtop did not transfer vibrations up into the TT plinth.

 

IOW - it was a very effective 'isolator'!

 

I did not do any comparative listening of what type of heavy slab is best for sound.

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr

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12 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

My testing simply showed that with a heavy slab (needed to get the squash balls to "work" properly) and air isolation ... hitting a hammer on the benchtop did not transfer vibrations up into the TT plinth.

 

IOW - it was a very effective 'isolator'!

 

I did not do any comparative listening of what type of heavy slab is best for sound.

 

Andy

 

 

Yep, a simple test with an effective result.  I think I'll stick with one type of stone as well, namely sandstone. 

 

This is all very good food for thought.  I'm also considering a block of acoustic material to compare against squash balls and stone, as @Grant Slack has discussed.  This wouldn't really be too expensive to trial.

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Guest Muon N'
5 hours ago, Kaynin said:

 

Did you have those supported in any way?  And, if so, were they supported the same?

On white's anti vibration blocks.

 

Yes

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Just now, Muon N' said:

On white's anti vibration blocks.

 

Yes

Good to know Muon, thanks.

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On 12/01/2020 at 11:04 AM, t_mike said:

Forget sandstone, it gives off grit.

 

On 12/01/2020 at 12:41 PM, Kaynin said:

 

Will sealing it prevent this, or does that have to be re-applied over time?


I use Sandstone under my turntable and find no issue with grit and would be my recommendation for vibration absorbing.

 

@Red MacKay knows the best place to get sandstone cut to your desired size and thickness.

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