Quad ESL 2905

[frankn]

Yes, Digital is a full PS Audio front end, PWTransport, DS DAC, BHK Pre-amp feeding BHK S300 mono-blocks. Analouge is ClearAudio Avantgarde Magnum with SME-V / Lyra Kleos & Golden Age Audio Reference tube phono-amplifier & SUT.

The Quads sit on 3 concrete pavers + a sandstone paver with acoustic felt between layers. Really these are mainly aesthetics to get the speakers centre closer to ear level and remove the need for the tilt. I think it is better that way. I prefer the bass. The speakers sit on Stillpoints SS.

Pretty good integration of overall bandwidth with good bass in keeping with the rest of the spectrum. Spatial and depth of sound-stage is improved with room treatment, mainly front wall 2D diffuser/scatter, QRD panels, bass traps and additional attenuating panels around the room.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Big Dog RJ]

nice one Frank.

 

Infact, I tried that these past few days with not much of an improvement on soundstage. I got hold of a few items, stone pavers, granite slabs, and thick blocks of MDF. Out of all three, I preferred the MDF board but the sound didn't really improve much at all. I think my room is far too small for this type of elevation. Perhaps in a larger room with ample space for listening, when elevated you do get that fantastic soundstage off these, and the stage kind of floats freely at ear level. I already get this with the speakers set in their standard way, plus I listen near field. The granite slab improved bass but then seemed to cost far more than the MDF, still haven't decided what to do with that.

 

My quest for the amplification does continue. I had the privilege of trying out the new ARC G series amplification- awesome stuff indeed! Pricing is way beyond my terms at the moment, the GS preamp costs 27 grand! The power amp is another 25 plus grand, we're looking at over 50 grand just for a pre-power. I think that is a sheer crime to pay that much. The new G series amps are currently available at Rab's for special order and can be auditioned with a line up of top quality speakers from Sonus Faber. They have three different models on demo, Maxima, Amati, and the big Aida (130k price tag!).

 

For that kind of money, I certainly prefer CJ, it has always worked magic with Quads, nothing quite beats its synergy (to me at least).

I have decided on the CAV45 for now, just to get a feel of those nice EL34's in triode mode. I am aiming for the ARTsa, which will probably be where the buck stops.

 

Thanks for the info though, will someday still like to head over there just to experience those 2905's with SS amplification and a dedicated room at its best.

Must be something special. Cheers,

RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day mates and fellow audio enthusiasts, trust you are all enjoying the crazy weather and the wonderful music!

For those who attended the HiFi show in Melbourne last weekend, trust it was better than average because the word I got was that it was "average." hence the main reason why I really didn't see it a point in attending. On the sports front- too bad the Wallabies just couldn't cross the line and this adds to another long 3 decades of not being able to beat the All Blacks.

 

On a better note- I have now fully refurbished my Quads (ESL 2905) to John Halls panels, and upgraded the transformers "made in Australia by Aussies" to spec and British standard! and they sound absolutely marvellous!

 

I have heard some first hand news of people auditioning Quads who were quite serious in considering these stats but during the auditions, panels apparently started failing... so obviously no sale ever occurred (even though under warranty).

 

This is the main reason for posting this and the point I want to make: if you're thinking of purchasing Quads (known for its spectacular sound and transparency in the midrange, from a electrostatic company that has an extended rich history of stat design originating from the UK, by the genius / founder Peter Walker) but have doubts about their reliability and the production coming out of China, you can be rest assured there are good trusted sources available in Australia who can repair these stats back to perfect original condition, sounding even better, more stable and far more reliable.

 

Please bear in mind, nothing harmfully intended towards Chinese production but I have found the original British parts and Australian made components to be far more reliable and of much higher quality- and how and why am I stating this is simply because- "I've been there!" Since purchasing my pair in 2010, I have done so many repairs on them whiles under warranty, and now with the help of electronic engineers and professionals, I have fully restored my Quads to sound at their best!

 

Therefore, we have finally arrived at a solution for "used Quads" in great condition that can still sound superb!

Cheers to all and have a good one,

RJ

[Newman]

A positive report on a local aussie service for an exotic speaker legend is always great news!

[Nada]

1 hour ago, Big Dog RJ said:

........ I have fully restored my Quads to sound at their best!

 

The 2905 are superb so I like to hear them sounding even better  - I wonder if you can break down the expenses for renovating a pair of 2905 please?

Edited October 25, 2016 by Nada

[Nigel]

Big Dog,

who done did your trannies ? I presume each 2905 has 2 (?) if so, did you replace all 4 ? and to the stock ratio or perhaps to John's recommendation ?

 

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

2 minutes ago, Nigel said:

Big Dog,

who done did your trannies ? I presume each 2905 has 2 (?) if so, did you replace all 4 ? and to the stock ratio or perhaps to John's recommendation ?

 

 

 

I had some wound a couple of years back by Harbuch. They did a great job. I only needed two, but it didn't cost much more to have four wound. Hence, I have two spares. The Chinese ones are, indeed, crap. 

 

[EDIT] It is the power transformers that cause the problems. The audio transformers appear to be quite reliable.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Nigel]

Thanks ZB,

  I forgot that Quad use trannies to provide the bias voltage. The Eraudio stats use cheap voltage multiplier circuit $40 (guess) never had a problem.

 

[Keith_W]

WOOF WOOF!!! I thought that you were going to sell your Quads and buy another speaker? 

[Newman]

er, er, woof woof?

[Keith_W]

He's a Big Dog

[Big Dog RJ]

hi mate, responding to the questions:

1. Improvements on Quads

2. transformers

 

1. Improvements: there are several ways of improving the overall sound and they can get to a level of remarkable realism.

the break is as follows:

(a) Six Panels for each speaker cost about $1500 x 2 around 3 grand for the pair (John charges around $250 per panel).

(b) replace stock fuses with high grade brands, several available from various sources (!make sure the type rating is the same!)

(c) Transformers- there are three transformers in each speaker (not two). There are two EHT (extra high tension) transformers that charge the stators on each side of the panels, and one mains Audio Transformer. It is the Mains audio transformer that is the weakest quality. I changed only the audio transformers. You can change the EHT as well but I am not sure of the level of improvement if any...

(d) Using high quality grade power cords rather than the stock supplied does improve the quality of current transfer, and is quite audible with stats.

(e) There are the PK Quads where he re-builds the entire frame with a solid thick wooden brace covering the entire panel. Taking away the aluminium struts on the sides and using extra heavy gauge frames, further strengthens the overall rigidness and allows the panel to perform more dynamically compared to the standard frames. The tension bar at the back can remain or not, that is a personal preference but not required for PK's rebuilds.

 

I have not done PK's rebuilds as the cost is quite excessive, however I have done everything else as above. I am not sure what PK charges for these but they sound superb! and are far more dynamic compared to mine. The above costs are standard for what I paid, plus John will also charge for additional labour and transport. Total cost for panel refurbishment from John would be around $3200. This may also vary according to how many panels you want to change.

 

The panels done by John and similar to PK are very different to Quads Chinese factory production. The glues he uses are stiffer and stronger and require several days to dry, giving an overall massive improvement in stiffness and longevity. The mylar used is thicker, and darker, sort of a carbon fibre form, and is black. it is not transparent compared to the Quad standard. This gives it far greater tolerances and does not arc, plus can handle higher voltages if required. I believe PK's panels do cost more than Johns. PK is not based in Australia though and shipping and handling would be another factor that I was not willing to spend extra, plus shipping these things is not an easy task for any matter.

 

I think the panel changes, plus power cords and fuses are a significant improvement over the standard and justifies the spend. But again this is quite an expense, and must be considered carefully according to budgets. There is a very positive aspect with John's panels, he guarantee's them for five years! Quad doesn't even guarantee their speakers for that long.

 

That's about it, and happy listening!

Cheers, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

yes Keith, I was going down that road towards Martin Logan as I was totally frustrated with Quads service in Melb. After John refurbished the panels and when I got my new CJ amp, not only did the sound improve but the CJ amp was also a better match with the Quads and what they could produce, was just pure music. It's only rated at 45 w/ch and can drive the Quads with such a level of musicality that I was not experiencing before even when I had higher power with separate pre-power amplification.

 

Since John is there to back me back if ever there was an issue, I am now at peace of mind. I still do want to venture towards ML's due to their reliability and the their production is far more superior to Quads. Since I paid quite a fair amount for mine, I sincerely want to keep them for as long as possible and continue to enjoy them for as long as they last. According to John, every panel that he has personally replaced and refurbished, he has never had to replace any one of his panels to date! Also according to John, he proudly proclaims that his panels are good to go for over 10 years or more, hence the reason why he offers a 5 year warranty. He is so confident that he knows his stuff and can claim this due to his vast experience in repairing Quads for several decades. He also knows their exact weaknesses and knows how to improve on every type of material they use.

 

In regards to ML's I am seriously looking at the CLX's but this is going to be a long road for me as I cannot afford the CLX right now. It would probably take me around 10 years... In the meantime I was thinking of the Ethos, but because these are hybrids and not full range stats, I strongly believe the stat bass to be superior in every aspect of low frequency articulation and speed.

I am sure the Ethos and other ML hybrids are quite good in LF reproduciton, as I have heard them. But to me it does sound sort of a box/ typical dynamic driver bass response. It does not have the speed and articulation of full range stat bass.

 

Full range stat bass simply "responds" to the signal, it does not push the speaker, and this is marvellous. Whereas dynamic drivers seem to have a push effect, and this is something I do not prefer. Hence, I would never be happy with any of ML's hybrids. I would only see them as a temporary replacement for Quads.

 

My speakers are still listed on the Sound Reference website as a special trade in offer (used). If there is someone who is very serious about Quads, and wants to buy my pair, I am still willing to part with it but I will not give it away for the ridiculous second hand price that people have dumped their Quads for, which frankly speaking I nearly did!

Considering the amount of money I have spent repairing these things and the horrible service from AVR, plus the refurbishment excellence of John, I can see that these are worth every penny spent! Therefore, I will not part with these very easily. It will be a hard deal.

 

The CLX's go for around 32 grand. A few years from now, they would probably be around 40 grand, which they were at one point before the new distributor took over ML's for Aus. I can still get a pair for around 32-35 grand but this is something I do not want to do right now. After nearly 3 years of hardship to get the Quads working back to their original condition and sounding even better, I think I might as well sit back and enjoy the music! Isn't that just what we need after all?

 

Cheers and a definite woof woof!

Big dog RJ

[Nickelle]

On 16/08/2016 at 9:53 AM, frankn said:

I hadn't heard that you can leave these speakers when not in use (an hour or wouldn't be a problem), not long term anyway.  I've checked the manual and I cannot find a statement that the speakers can be left powered up.  The manual recommends unplugging them during thunderstorms or when not in use for longer periods.  I completely agree with the OP that they should be switched off when not in use - I've always done so.  Perhaps the comment about leaving them powered up was in a review or something.

When John Hall returned my ESL 57's after restoration he advised me o leave them on permanently which I have done for the last two years plus. The still sound immaculate with NO noises apart from the music. Many thanks to John Hall.

[Big Dog RJ]

Even with all the advancements of technology and electronics, I sincerely wouldn't leave anything on permanently for a long periods unless the system was played every day. Leaving it on not only burns extra energy but also creates an opportunity for disaster in case you're not around. Lighting, electrical outages... I've been there before and it's not pretty, especially on stats. To be safe, just power up the system for about an hour before listening and shut down fully on standby when not in use. When off for more than a week, I would off completely. Just my 50cts from personal experience. 

Cheers, RJ 

[BruceS]

Another experience.

I have left my acoustat spectra 22s on continuously for almost 30 years.

Same with my quad 606s.

Only time I have turned them off is if I needed to paint the room or relocate them to another room, or to add a new component to my system - never off for long.

Can't give any specific reasons other than 'to keep them warmed up' and 'to have them ready to go at a moment's notice', or maybe 'I thought it seemed like a good idea'.

Have not had any problems.

Still going as good as new.

One thing that has amazed me though is that the (cheap) wall warts for the electrostats are also still going strong after all that time (don't really think the gold plating I had put on them when I purchased them had any thing to do with it!).

Just another experience to put into the mix.

Hope that helps.

Bruce

[Richard Brand]

On 14/08/2016 at 3:25 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Agreed. John Hall is an amazing and generous man. I serviced a pair of 2905s for an SNA member a couple of years back. One of the mains transformers had failed. After discussion with the owner, we decided to replace both transformers with custom wound Australia types. The cost was far less than if the transformers had been sourced from the Australian distributor.

Any idea how I can contact John Hall?  One of my 2905 ESLs has started popping (I live in Canberra and suspect bushfire smoke!)  As luck would have it I am driving to Melbourne on Tuesday to catch the Devonport ferry, back five weeks later

 

Cheers, Richard

0418 568 358

[Richard Brand]

Rob from ER Audio was kind enough to send me John's email.  Then when he realised I had to start my journey on Monday, he followed up with John's mobile.  Panel is booked in from Wednesday in Frankston!  Just got to remove it from the frame today.  So this week has been: Friday get home from a couple of weeks in Sydney.  Early hours of Saturday: speaker starts to pop.  Web searching starts.  Discover John, book panel in.  Sunday hopefully remove panel.  Monday start driving.  Friday start sailing

[Jumbuck]

On 01/03/2020 at 5:11 AM, Richard Brand said:

Just got to remove it from the frame today

I am curious how much work is involved in doing this and is it something the average person should attempt?

Just thinking ahead for when my panel/s will need to be shipped to Melbourne from WA.

[Richard Brand]

On 04/03/2020 at 1:48 PM, Jumbuck said:

I am curious how much work is involved in doing this and is it something the average person should attempt?

Just thinking ahead for when my panel/s will need to be shipped to Melbourne from WA.

It took me 2.5 hours to remove the grills, dust-covers and the top panel, where I thought the fault lay.  I powered the speaker up and still got the popping noise, so switched off and waited for the high voltage to dissipate.  Removed the next panel, put the first one back in its place, and the fault went.  So I am pretty confident I got the right panel!  It is important to disconnect the amplifier feed as well as the mains power.  Any signal from the amplifier is transformed to high voltage and applied to the stators.  The mains power supply charges the diaphragm to 5,000 Volts!   I have owned and dismantled ESL 63s in the past, and I know pretty well how the panels are wired and how they work.  There is (un)soldering involved and the voltages are potentially lethal.  Apart from that it is screwdriver work apart from a couple of biggish nuts.  If you are doing a lower panel, I suggest photographing where the wires run before you remove the panel.  I could not have done this so quickly except for the notes and photos here - so a big thank you.  In particular I did not completely remove the side frames, it was enough to loosen one enough to wriggle the panel out.  The dustcover screws are secured with Locktite or similar and I stripped a few heads getting them all undone.  I expect to have to heat shrink the dustcovers on re-assembly - a quality heat gun is needed.  So I think an average handyman can remove and replace a panel.  Doing repairs to a panel is another matter entirely!  Oh, I dropped the panel off with John yesterday as planned - a lovely, very knowledgeable guy who has made impressive jigs for tensioning mylar on four panels simultaneously. He offers a 5 year warranty too

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Richard Brand