Jump to content

Gieseler Audio

Klein DAC II owners thread

Recommended Posts

Sponsor

Hi everyone,

there are quite a few Klein II's out there now so I thought I better start an owners thread where you can leave feedback

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Out of curiousity, would the klein dac II as a dac equal the dac/pre's dac section? Just really needing a dac. Also, saving the 2k+ might be problematic atm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Out of curiousity, would the klein dac II as a dac equal the dac/pre's dac section? Just really needing a dac. Also, saving the 2k+ might be problematic atm.

A similar question was asked in the Dac/pre wish list thread.

Q: "You've probably already mentioned this, but is the DAC stage in the DAC/PRE combo the same as your latest DSD DAC in terms of sonic performance?"

A: The digital/DAC circuit is the same but the power supplies have been improved a little. It terms of performance they are probably very similar. The DAC section in the DAC/Pre is a much smaller PCB than the Klein II because it has no filter/output stage, all that part is on the main preamp board. Also the main raw DC & pre filtering for the DAC is on a seperate PSU board. I think maybe because those two important sections are physically seperated from the digital part the overall sound is a little cleaner too if you follow. I will probably make a higher end DAC only based on the DAC/Pre layout/topology so suit customers who already have a good preamp or intergrated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got my Klein II a few days ago and I must say this is certainly an amazing sounding DAC. I have had 2 high end DAC's in my system over the last few years. First one was a Moon 380D (around 7k) which I didn't like the sound of at all so I sold it. My current one is an Antelope Gold DAC (around 3k) which is a great unit but I find that it pushes the highs a bit in the DAC section so it's pretty fatiguing for my ears even after a short time listening. So I'm just using the pre amp on the Antelope with the Klein. The Klein sounds very natural indeed. It's got a real nice full bodied sound and the bass is great. The imaging is so stable and the sound stage is awesome. It's super smooth on the highs which is perfect for my system. I just got new floor standers with ribbon tweeters so the detail is superb. I briefly heard a PS Audio Direct Stream early in the year and I think this is comparable. They both sound warm and not so digital. Also USB audio out of my Mac has never sounded so good. I do most of my listen on my Rega CD player using digital out into the Klein. But the Klein is so good through USB, I think I'll be playing a lot more computer audio now. It's going to be great to hear all my music again through this fantastic DAC. 

Edited by Jonny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got my Klein II a few days ago and I must say this is certainly an amazing sounding DAC. I have had 2 high end DAC's in my system over the last few years. First one was a Moon 380D (around 7k) which I didn't like the sound of at all so I sold it. My current one is an Antelope Gold DAC (around 3k) which is a great unit but I find that it pushes the highs a bit in the DAC section so it's pretty fatiguing for my ears even after a short time listening. So I'm just using the pre amp on the Antelope with the Klein. The Klein sounds very natural indeed. It's got a real nice full bodied sound and the bass is great. The imaging is so stable and the sound stage is awesome. It's super smooth on the highs which is perfect for my system. I just got new floor standers with ribbon tweeters so the detail is superb. I briefly heard a PS Audio Direct Stream early in the year and I think this is comparable. They both sound warm and not so digital. Also USB audio out of my Mac has never sounded so good. I do most of my listen on my Rega CD player using digital out into the Klein. But the Klein is so good through USB, I think I'll be playing a lot more computer audio now. It's going to be great to hear all my music again through this fantastic DAC. 

Thanks for sharing. Did you play PCM or DSD or both?

Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would interested to see some further reviews of the Klein DAC ii.  Dsd performance etc. For example Is there any benefit in upsampling from roon or hqplayer before sending to the dac? Has anyone tried the filters?

 

I am looking around at the moment but not wanting to jump in the wrong direction as i currently have 2 inbuilt dacs (moon 350p neo preamp - no DSD) and the dsd capable dac in the yamaha cd-s2100.  Trouble i now have an antipodes ds ssd (latest version) and because the yamaha doesn't like anything that isnt using the steinberg usb driver i cannot connect the antipodes to it so have gone back to the moon dac.  Also using roon.

 

Some dacs considered but not tested; giesler klein dac ii, metrum nos dac, and possibly something like mytek brooklyn.  All very different.

 

The dac obviously must work without usb drivers for linux, would like to have dsd support metrum doesnt).  The brooklyn also has internal functions i dont plan to use in the dac such as headphone preamp etc.

 

Havent come across the dac chip used in the klein dac ii are there any other dacs using that chip?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sponsor

The Klein II uses the AKM AK4490EQ

http://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4490EQ

It is the premium DAC chip in the AKM range. The link shows lots of products that use it.

To name a few 

The flagship Marantz & Denon AV Preamps/receivers, TEAC UD503 & Esoteric SACD players.

It is a relatively new design released in December 2014.

Also a interesting link that shows why TEAC picked the AK4490EQ for their UD503

 http://www.absolutesound.com.sg/news-updates/why-did-teac-use-the-ak4490-dac-in-the-ud-503/

Hope that helps

regards Clay

Edited by Gieseler Audio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said:

The Klein II uses the AKM AK4490EQ

http://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4490EQ

It is the premium DAC chip in the AKM range. The link shows lots of products that use it.

To name a few 

The flagship Marantz & Denon AV Preamps/receivers, TEAC UD503 & Esoteric SACD players.

It is a relatively new design released in December 2014.

Also a interesting link that shows why TEAC picked the AK4490EQ for their UD503

 http://www.absolutesound.com.sg/news-updates/why-did-teac-use-the-ak4490-dac-in-the-ud-503/

Hope that helps

regards Clay

Thanks Clay

 

I did go back and reread the other threads on the Klein DACII.  Lots of useful information in those which I should have read first, including pictures of the LCD screen on (not shown on the website).

 

Just out of interest someone mentioned a new DAC CHIP the AK4497EQ.  Will that replace the AK4490EQ any stage soon in the Klein DAC, I guess it would depend if that forces you to do a total rebuild of your design?  Secondly, would we notice the difference sound wise if it was replaced.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been researching the akm chips recently. From what I can gather in dsd volume bypass mode the 4490 and 4497 are identical. The improvements in the 4497 compared to the 4490 relate to pcm, may in fact be worse for dsd as the 4497 uses more power.

Also, performance at dsd512 is not guaranteed on the 4497 - they have a disclaimer. Dsd256 is no issue on either chip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sponsor

AudioGeek - you are certainly on the ball re tech details. Actually I already have a sample AK4497EQ DAC chip & have built up a prototype.

I have done some brief comparisons between the two & there does not seem to be much of a difference. In the Klein DAC I run the AK4490EQ at 6.8v (max 7v) for the analogue section & that is definitely better than 5v sound wise.

With the AK4497EQ the data sheet does not show a 7v option for the analogue section so the AK4490EQ seems to have an advantage there.

With my new upcoming DAC/Pre there will be a very reasonable cost upgrade option to change the digital board over to a AK4497EQ version if desired. It is modular with a totally separate boards so it is easy to swap the small digital board. The Amanero USB unplugs so that can be swapped over which reduces the cost. 

When I get more time I will do some more in depth comparison between the two chips & report back. I think the AK4497EQ may be delayed for commercial production - it is past the ETA now. I keep quizzing AKM about it but get no response. 

PS Demondes  this link will bring up the updated website

http://gieseler.com.au/ProductsPage/index.html

There is glitch we are working on where the old one keeps popping up

Glitch now fixed

Edited by Gieseler Audio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14. September 2016 at 2:57 AM, Gieseler Audio said:

 

With my new upcoming DAC/Pre there will be a very reasonable cost upgrade option to change the digital board over to a AK4497EQ version if desired. It is modular with a totally separate boards so it is easy to swap the small digital board. The Amanero USB unplugs so that can be swapped over which reduces the cost. 

Hi Clay,

do you have plans to use this modular approach for your standalone DACs as well?

 

Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sponsor

Hi Matt,

I had not really considered building just a a DAC like that but I will certainly look at that possibility.

With say the Klein DAC there is not enough room for modular contruction but with a larger version there would be.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Hi Matt,

I had not really considered building just a a DAC like that but I will certainly look at that possibility.

With say the Klein DAC there is not enough room for modular contruction but with a larger version there would be.

 

Thanks, I mean that both the DAC module and the PS module from your DAC/Pre fit together in one case which is much smaller than the DAC/Pre.

Matt

Edited by matth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14.9.2016 at 3:57 AM, Gieseler Audio said:

AudioGeek - you are certainly on the ball re tech details. Actually I already have a sample AK4497EQ DAC chip & have built up a prototype.

I have done some brief comparisons between the two & there does not seem to be much of a difference. In the Klein DAC I run the AK4490EQ at 6.8v (max 7v) for the analogue section & that is definitely better than 5v sound wise.

With the AK4497EQ the data sheet does not show a 7v option for the analogue section so the AK4490EQ seems to have an advantage there.

With my new upcoming DAC/Pre there will be a very reasonable cost upgrade option to change the digital board over to a AK4497EQ version if desired. It is modular with a totally separate boards so it is easy to swap the small digital board. The Amanero USB unplugs so that can be swapped over which reduces the cost. 

When I get more time I will do some more in depth comparison between the two chips & report back. I think the AK4497EQ may be delayed for commercial production - it is past the ETA now. I keep quizzing AKM about it but get no response. 

PS Demondes  this link will bring up the updated website

http://gieseler.com.au/ProductsPage/index.html

There is glitch we are working on where the old one keeps popping up

Glitch now fixed

Linn changed the chip manufacturer and use now AKM chips in their new Katalyst DAC as well.

 

Matt

Edited by matth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@scumbag Next week, I will be a proud owner of a Klein DAC II! That is once I put the money down and not before! Will definitely compare with a DAC or two like Gungnir Multibit!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Suopermanni said:

@scumbag Next week, I will be a proud owner of a Klein DAC II! That is once I put the money down and not before! Will definitely compare with a DAC or two like Gungnir Multibit!

 

This comparison I would be interested in :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can thank atsq for me getting the Gungnir Multibit! He offered me a great price for the one he had!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Intial impressions on the Single Ended Outputs of the Gungnir and the Klein DAC II is that they are both very close! 

 

Tested on ZMF Omni on a Audio GD C-2 19th Anniversary Edition amp on Low Gain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only PCM files as i do not have any dsd files and gungnir is not a dsd dac. Will try with an open headphone next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough! It would be great though if you (or anyone) could comment on DSD playback as I thought that was the main difference between the Klein DAC I and II.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got a couple of releases recorded to DSD from Native DSD Music and they sound incredible through the Klein II. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×