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Got my Klein II a few days ago and I must say this is certainly an amazing sounding DAC. I have had 2 high end DAC's in my system over the last few years. First one was a Moon 380D (around 7k) which I

Yes new products coming very soon Stay tuned!

A similar question was asked in the Dac/pre wish list thread. Q: "You've probably already mentioned this, but is the DAC stage in the DAC/PRE combo the same as your latest DSD DAC in terms of sonic p

Out of curiousity, would the klein dac II as a dac equal the dac/pre's dac section? Just really needing a dac. Also, saving the 2k+ might be problematic atm.

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Out of curiousity, would the klein dac II as a dac equal the dac/pre's dac section? Just really needing a dac. Also, saving the 2k+ might be problematic atm.

A similar question was asked in the Dac/pre wish list thread.

Q: "You've probably already mentioned this, but is the DAC stage in the DAC/PRE combo the same as your latest DSD DAC in terms of sonic performance?"

A: The digital/DAC circuit is the same but the power supplies have been improved a little. It terms of performance they are probably very similar. The DAC section in the DAC/Pre is a much smaller PCB than the Klein II because it has no filter/output stage, all that part is on the main preamp board. Also the main raw DC & pre filtering for the DAC is on a seperate PSU board. I think maybe because those two important sections are physically seperated from the digital part the overall sound is a little cleaner too if you follow. I will probably make a higher end DAC only based on the DAC/Pre layout/topology so suit customers who already have a good preamp or intergrated.

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Got my Klein II a few days ago and I must say this is certainly an amazing sounding DAC. I have had 2 high end DAC's in my system over the last few years. First one was a Moon 380D (around 7k) which I didn't like the sound of at all so I sold it. My current one is an Antelope Gold DAC (around 3k) which is a great unit but I find that it pushes the highs a bit in the DAC section so it's pretty fatiguing for my ears even after a short time listening. So I'm just using the pre amp on the Antelope with the Klein. The Klein sounds very natural indeed. It's got a real nice full bodied sound and the bass is great. The imaging is so stable and the sound stage is awesome. It's super smooth on the highs which is perfect for my system. I just got new floor standers with ribbon tweeters so the detail is superb. I briefly heard a PS Audio Direct Stream early in the year and I think this is comparable. They both sound warm and not so digital. Also USB audio out of my Mac has never sounded so good. I do most of my listen on my Rega CD player using digital out into the Klein. But the Klein is so good through USB, I think I'll be playing a lot more computer audio now. It's going to be great to hear all my music again through this fantastic DAC. 

Edited by Jonny
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Got my Klein II a few days ago and I must say this is certainly an amazing sounding DAC. I have had 2 high end DAC's in my system over the last few years. First one was a Moon 380D (around 7k) which I didn't like the sound of at all so I sold it. My current one is an Antelope Gold DAC (around 3k) which is a great unit but I find that it pushes the highs a bit in the DAC section so it's pretty fatiguing for my ears even after a short time listening. So I'm just using the pre amp on the Antelope with the Klein. The Klein sounds very natural indeed. It's got a real nice full bodied sound and the bass is great. The imaging is so stable and the sound stage is awesome. It's super smooth on the highs which is perfect for my system. I just got new floor standers with ribbon tweeters so the detail is superb. I briefly heard a PS Audio Direct Stream early in the year and I think this is comparable. They both sound warm and not so digital. Also USB audio out of my Mac has never sounded so good. I do most of my listen on my Rega CD player using digital out into the Klein. But the Klein is so good through USB, I think I'll be playing a lot more computer audio now. It's going to be great to hear all my music again through this fantastic DAC. 

Thanks for sharing. Did you play PCM or DSD or both?

Matt

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  • 1 month later...

I would interested to see some further reviews of the Klein DAC ii.  Dsd performance etc. For example Is there any benefit in upsampling from roon or hqplayer before sending to the dac? Has anyone tried the filters?

 

I am looking around at the moment but not wanting to jump in the wrong direction as i currently have 2 inbuilt dacs (moon 350p neo preamp - no DSD) and the dsd capable dac in the yamaha cd-s2100.  Trouble i now have an antipodes ds ssd (latest version) and because the yamaha doesn't like anything that isnt using the steinberg usb driver i cannot connect the antipodes to it so have gone back to the moon dac.  Also using roon.

 

Some dacs considered but not tested; giesler klein dac ii, metrum nos dac, and possibly something like mytek brooklyn.  All very different.

 

The dac obviously must work without usb drivers for linux, would like to have dsd support metrum doesnt).  The brooklyn also has internal functions i dont plan to use in the dac such as headphone preamp etc.

 

Havent come across the dac chip used in the klein dac ii are there any other dacs using that chip?

 

 

 

 

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The Klein II uses the AKM AK4490EQ

http://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4490EQ

It is the premium DAC chip in the AKM range. The link shows lots of products that use it.

To name a few 

The flagship Marantz & Denon AV Preamps/receivers, TEAC UD503 & Esoteric SACD players.

It is a relatively new design released in December 2014.

Also a interesting link that shows why TEAC picked the AK4490EQ for their UD503

 http://www.absolutesound.com.sg/news-updates/why-did-teac-use-the-ak4490-dac-in-the-ud-503/

Hope that helps

regards Clay

Edited by Gieseler Audio
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10 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said:

The Klein II uses the AKM AK4490EQ

http://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4490EQ

It is the premium DAC chip in the AKM range. The link shows lots of products that use it.

To name a few 

The flagship Marantz & Denon AV Preamps/receivers, TEAC UD503 & Esoteric SACD players.

It is a relatively new design released in December 2014.

Also a interesting link that shows why TEAC picked the AK4490EQ for their UD503

 http://www.absolutesound.com.sg/news-updates/why-did-teac-use-the-ak4490-dac-in-the-ud-503/

Hope that helps

regards Clay

Thanks Clay

 

I did go back and reread the other threads on the Klein DACII.  Lots of useful information in those which I should have read first, including pictures of the LCD screen on (not shown on the website).

 

Just out of interest someone mentioned a new DAC CHIP the AK4497EQ.  Will that replace the AK4490EQ any stage soon in the Klein DAC, I guess it would depend if that forces you to do a total rebuild of your design?  Secondly, would we notice the difference sound wise if it was replaced.

 

 

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I have been researching the akm chips recently. From what I can gather in dsd volume bypass mode the 4490 and 4497 are identical. The improvements in the 4497 compared to the 4490 relate to pcm, may in fact be worse for dsd as the 4497 uses more power.

Also, performance at dsd512 is not guaranteed on the 4497 - they have a disclaimer. Dsd256 is no issue on either chip.

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AudioGeek - you are certainly on the ball re tech details. Actually I already have a sample AK4497EQ DAC chip & have built up a prototype.

I have done some brief comparisons between the two & there does not seem to be much of a difference. In the Klein DAC I run the AK4490EQ at 6.8v (max 7v) for the analogue section & that is definitely better than 5v sound wise.

With the AK4497EQ the data sheet does not show a 7v option for the analogue section so the AK4490EQ seems to have an advantage there.

With my new upcoming DAC/Pre there will be a very reasonable cost upgrade option to change the digital board over to a AK4497EQ version if desired. It is modular with a totally separate boards so it is easy to swap the small digital board. The Amanero USB unplugs so that can be swapped over which reduces the cost. 

When I get more time I will do some more in depth comparison between the two chips & report back. I think the AK4497EQ may be delayed for commercial production - it is past the ETA now. I keep quizzing AKM about it but get no response. 

PS Demondes  this link will bring up the updated website

http://gieseler.com.au/ProductsPage/index.html

There is glitch we are working on where the old one keeps popping up

Glitch now fixed

Edited by Gieseler Audio
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On 14. September 2016 at 2:57 AM, Gieseler Audio said:

 

With my new upcoming DAC/Pre there will be a very reasonable cost upgrade option to change the digital board over to a AK4497EQ version if desired. It is modular with a totally separate boards so it is easy to swap the small digital board. The Amanero USB unplugs so that can be swapped over which reduces the cost. 

Hi Clay,

do you have plans to use this modular approach for your standalone DACs as well?

 

Matt

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Hi Matt,

I had not really considered building just a a DAC like that but I will certainly look at that possibility.

With say the Klein DAC there is not enough room for modular contruction but with a larger version there would be.

 

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4 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Hi Matt,

I had not really considered building just a a DAC like that but I will certainly look at that possibility.

With say the Klein DAC there is not enough room for modular contruction but with a larger version there would be.

 

Thanks, I mean that both the DAC module and the PS module from your DAC/Pre fit together in one case which is much smaller than the DAC/Pre.

Matt

Edited by matth
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 14.9.2016 at 3:57 AM, Gieseler Audio said:

AudioGeek - you are certainly on the ball re tech details. Actually I already have a sample AK4497EQ DAC chip & have built up a prototype.

I have done some brief comparisons between the two & there does not seem to be much of a difference. In the Klein DAC I run the AK4490EQ at 6.8v (max 7v) for the analogue section & that is definitely better than 5v sound wise.

With the AK4497EQ the data sheet does not show a 7v option for the analogue section so the AK4490EQ seems to have an advantage there.

With my new upcoming DAC/Pre there will be a very reasonable cost upgrade option to change the digital board over to a AK4497EQ version if desired. It is modular with a totally separate boards so it is easy to swap the small digital board. The Amanero USB unplugs so that can be swapped over which reduces the cost. 

When I get more time I will do some more in depth comparison between the two chips & report back. I think the AK4497EQ may be delayed for commercial production - it is past the ETA now. I keep quizzing AKM about it but get no response. 

PS Demondes  this link will bring up the updated website

http://gieseler.com.au/ProductsPage/index.html

There is glitch we are working on where the old one keeps popping up

Glitch now fixed

Linn changed the chip manufacturer and use now AKM chips in their new Katalyst DAC as well.

 

Matt

Edited by matth
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  • 4 weeks later...
2 minutes ago, Suopermanni said:

@scumbag Next week, I will be a proud owner of a Klein DAC II! That is once I put the money down and not before! Will definitely compare with a DAC or two like Gungnir Multibit!

 

This comparison I would be interested in :)

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Intial impressions on the Single Ended Outputs of the Gungnir and the Klein DAC II is that they are both very close! 

 

Tested on ZMF Omni on a Audio GD C-2 19th Anniversary Edition amp on Low Gain.

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Fair enough! It would be great though if you (or anyone) could comment on DSD playback as I thought that was the main difference between the Klein DAC I and II.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Has anyone tried using another remote like Logitech Harmony with the Klein DAC II? I'm asking because I lent someone my Klein DAC II and forgot to give them the remote that came with it!

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Hello,

 

I am seriously considering this DAC but have a question :

I saw you can chose between the different digital filters of the AK4490 chip or select the DSD mode (volume and delta-sigma modulator bypass). But is it possible to set the DAC as "External Digital Filter" bypassing the internal DF of the chip in order to use HQaudio filters with PCM files ?

Thank you very much !

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Eluxe,

no the "external digital filter" mode is not available in this current design. It would only require a simple change to the the firmware to implement this mode though. I guess I could do a custom firmware version with it set to "external digital filter mode" but I would probably need to check with my programmer first. 

regards Clay

Edited by Gieseler Audio
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  • 1 month later...
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@Conch Blowa Thanks for the link to the drivers.

I think this thread is more appropriate.

With the Singxer SU-1 I could not pass DSD to the Dac but was using a coax cable and I think this was why.


With the drivers installed now running USB (Curious cable) from PC with a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery USB Reclocker.

Must say it is sounding impressive. DSD sounds excellent too.

Super great Dac. :)

 

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On 04/03/2017 at 11:35 AM, peterhocking said:

Hi

 

I'm interested in a Klein II DAC. Does anyone know if it supports gapless playback?

 

TIA

 

Peter

Gapless has nothing to do with the dac it is the streaming device that will determine wether its gapless or not

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  • 4 months later...

The sample rate is only displayed if using the USB input. The Amanero USB board outputs this info which I use to control the display. To add the S/PDIF sample rate info would need quite a bit more complexity in the design so I gave that a miss.

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2 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

The sample rate is only displayed if using the USB input. The Amanero USB board outputs this info which I use to control the display. To add the S/PDIF sample rate info would need quite a bit more complexity in the design so I gave that a miss.

Thank you, no real issue was just wondering. Only using toslink for Xboxone and Spotify now anyway, it really lifts spotify to some real serious audio.

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  • 1 year later...

Hi All,

 

First time poster, long time lurker and occasional impersonator of my father-in-law :)

 

I just purchased this DAC and the sound is amazing, particularly DSD64. I can really hear the difference in sound stage compared to FLAC. At the risk of starting a flame war I dare say sounds better than a record . . . For another thread . . .

 

A few technical questions though. No matter what I do I can't seem to get anything to play greater than 192K or DSD64. This includes PCM 384 and DSD128. Using FooBar2K I get unable to play. I've installed the Windows driver and tried both SPDIF and USB inputs (USB with and without a re-clocker). Can anyone point me in the right direction as to what I might be doing wrong? FooBar2K is setup to output to ASIO4ALL which goes to the Gieseler DAC. Interesting ASIO4ALL says maximum bitrate is 384 which can't be right.

 

Is there a specific Gieseler ASIO driver required for this or another updated Windows driver? Or should I look at the Foobar ASIOProxy plugin?

 

I can't help but think this is a software setup. I'm running Windows 7 x64 if it helps.

 

Thanks.   

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