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Ooogh

Rocking In The Granny Flat

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42 minutes ago, Ooogh said:

 slightly more “humane” presentation. @christosd

 

Love that description mate.

I also have heard many amplifiers that suffer from a lack of humanity and a surfeit of technicality. There is a very tricky balance to be achieved in an amplifier

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The issue we had with the ME and Ambiences and M5 today was very similar to what happened when I tried pairing the Me1400 with a modwriight pre once. Rubbery bass, sound stage collapse and bizarre  unnatural accentuation with upper mids. It barely lasted a song. 

 

I still love the big ME at my house driven by the ME25 into the Duntech CPs. 

 

I know from many trials that the big ME needs the right  pre to work properly. The Bryston result at Ooogh''s is so far down such a nice path it seems a little silly to keep the ME-Ambience experiment going further by trying a more suitable pre and essentially starting again. 

 

The big Bryston with the Dunnies worked beautifully. That upper bass was really addictive but it's more humane presentation was actually a slight negative for me. Once the ME went back in,  I had clearer outlines around each of the instruments again. My guess is that the few negative points to the Bryston could be tweaked back into positives. Maybe some judicious speaker positioning or some (gulp) different cables (pause) may have brought the ME-like stage clarity back. 

 

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1 hour ago, Ooogh said:

@Addicted to music

 

Hi Peter, any thoughts on your amplifier experiences?

My ribbons are different to the Ambience.  So I can’t speak for the Ambience,  neither can speak for the ME or the Bryston.

What I can say is there is Definately an impedance mismatch as the ME are designed to have low input impedance, somits no good with preamps with high impedance. The owner of the 1400 drives it with a ME 25 so I’m at a lost as to why the ME 25/ ME 1400 wasn’t matched to drive the Ambience.  From what Trevor said to me the input impedance can be altered to suit high impedance output of preamps but that depends on what it can be altered to.

What I can say is that my ribbons are a product of Trevor Lees main drive back in the late 80s early 90s.  Let’s say we knew someone inside who could get it cheaper for us at the time.  I’ve had these ribbons for nearly 30yrs.  I’ve been using a DIY MOSFET Amp that was 240W @ 8ohms.  I have never had an issue but I knew the day will come when I need to recap a 25yr old amp that’s been driving 1.8ohms all its life.  The Magtech took over where the DIY mosfet left off and I’ve never looked back.   I chose the Magtech out of the  ME and the Bryston.  The Magtech at the time was the cheaper and an  affordable option, the ME was nowhere to be found and the Bryston was so much more expensive.    I’m not trying to sell you a Magtech,  although I do own one,  or am I promoting the other 2.  When it comes to driving ribbons it’s like I said and posted earlier, It’s all about current drive and the number of output devices sharing the load, and this usually saids more power.  

Heres some pics of my ribbons and the Magtech.

9563A23B-39B4-48E8-8193-3F1F11C4FDD1.jpeg

38369131-17DF-44B2-87A0-B418E8D6AEB6.jpeg

8CDFA6B3-BD62-4D9F-8CE1-58AD9340B124.jpeg

53D8F49E-4E22-45A8-8DC8-0DA8EDFACEB7.jpeg

409AD6AA-1F53-4FE1-AF2D-46770CF42B5F.jpeg

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8 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

The owner of the 1400 drives it with a ME 25 so I’m at a lost as to why the ME 25/ ME 1400 wasn’t matched to drive the Ambience. 

Yep. As I mentioned, there hasn't been a single pre that has sounded even acceptable to my ears as the 1400/25 combo at my house for those reasons . As with most of the Adelaide Hills GTG, it started with a text,   Hugh then had 20 minutes to drop everything, drive to my house to help me load the thing while I had a site meeting with a renderer. We then  drove another 20 minutes, unloaded it, tried it, had a cup of coffee, and I was back at work an hour later and noone knew I had gone! No carefully planned amp GTG here people, just opportunistic Hifi fun! 

Convincing Hugh to ditch the beautiful AN M5 is another thing, particularly given how nice it all sounds with the borrowed Bryston. If people really want, they can convince Hugh to let me bring the 25 pre over and confirm things for other Ambience owners. 

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11 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

My ribbons are different to the Ambience.  So I can’t speak for the Ambience,  neither can speak for the ME or the Bryston.

What I can say is there is Definately an impedance mismatch as the ME are designed to have low input impedance, somits no good with preamps with high impedance. The owner of the 1400 drives it with a ME 25 so I’m at a lost as to why the ME 25/ ME 1400 wasn’t matched to drive the Ambience.  From what Trevor said to me the input impedance can be altered to suit high impedance output of preamps but that depends on what it can be altered to.

What I can say is that my ribbons are a product of Trevor Lees main drive back in the late 80s early 90s.  Let’s say we knew someone inside who could get it cheaper for us at the time.  I’ve had these ribbons for nearly 30yrs.  I’ve been using a DIY MOSFET Amp that was 240W @ 8ohms.  I have never had an issue but I knew the day will come when I need to recap a 25yr old amp that’s been driving 1.8ohms all its life.  The Magtech took over where the DIY mosfet left off and I’ve never looked back.   I chose the Magtech out of the  ME and the Bryston.  The Magtech at the time was the cheaper and an  affordable option, the ME was nowhere to be found and the Bryston was so much more expensive.    I’m not trying to sell you a Magtech,  although I do own one,  or am I promoting the other 2.  When it comes to driving ribbons it’s like I said and posted earlier, It’s all about current drive and the number of output devices sharing the load, and this usually saids more power.  

Heres some pics of my ribbons and the Magtech.

9563A23B-39B4-48E8-8193-3F1F11C4FDD1.jpeg

38369131-17DF-44B2-87A0-B418E8D6AEB6.jpeg

8CDFA6B3-BD62-4D9F-8CE1-58AD9340B124.jpeg

53D8F49E-4E22-45A8-8DC8-0DA8EDFACEB7.jpeg

409AD6AA-1F53-4FE1-AF2D-46770CF42B5F.jpeg

Nice one Peter. Cheers for all the information. Looks like I really need to hear a Magtech, if it is good enough for you and SSZ then it must sound good.

 

Anyone got one in Adelaide? Usual bribery and corruption available for anyone who would like to bring one over.

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@christosd

 

all in good fun.. it’ll be interesting to see the results with the ME25/1400 combo.  I’m very sure it’ll be what Hugh is looking for.

 

OTOH I understand the need to keep a valve Preamp in the mix as there is an attachment to it.  I haven’t had a look inside the latest Bryston, but I’m not aware of the output impedance of the AN Preamp.  But in saying that the Magtech is like every other typical design LIKE IT FRIGGIN SHOULD BE and in my books has a high input impedance of 100K for unbalance RCA.  Note the Balance is 1k that’s supper low.

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1 minute ago, Ooogh said:

Nice one Peter. Cheers for all the information. Looks like I really need to hear a Magtech, if it is good enough for you and SSZ then it must sound good.

 

Anyone got one in Adelaide? Usual bribery and corruption available for anyone who would like to bring one over.

One brand of speakers a Magtech won’t integrate well with is the Martin Logan’s.  But then again the only thing that integrate well with a Martin Logan’s are Pass Labs.  That’s why a respected SNA member here let the Magtech go, his Pass Lab Aleph integrates super well with his pair of Martin Logan’s.    Everything with the Magtech is there like the Pass Lab, however with the Magtech it places a overpowering bass and midrange that veils the SQ on the ML.  Even at Tivoli HiFi none of there electronics integrate well either.  Apart from that the Magtech does very well on Magnaplanar such as the 1.7.    Another that’s worth considering is a Gyphon.  I heard a gryphon integrated on a pair of Dynaudio, it’s the best I heard from that pair of Dynaudio. 

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Hmmm, this might change the acoustics a bit.....50756634-BB8E-4D1C-B6A5-303DD54BCE6C.thumb.jpeg.dceeef5ef3acfb0e5b561885c2e3ab97.jpegBB7E123F-3ED9-429C-B2E1-C618915FD62D.thumb.jpeg.c605966df65b5ac318cbce821ca9c8ce.jpeg

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Well it has been awhile. Bought a  Bryston 4B3.  Brilliant.The level of detail was beyond anything I have heard.

 

AudioNote M5 to Bryston to Ambience, incredible. Bass that made a Yamaha B2 sound deficient and a 14BSST slow.  Detail to make a valve junky sit up and take notice and simply explosive dynamics. Way better than I had even hoped was possible. Then I took down the walls.....should sound better right? Well no, it sucked harder than a turbo charged Dyson.

 

Spent forever building absorption, hanging panels, moving things around circles. Just sounded worse.

 

Sold the 4B3 to that Evil C Clive. Much sadness, just stopped listening.

 

Finally got properly crazy. Bought the speakers 2.8 meters off the back wall and plugged them into the 2 Ohm tap on the Audions. You little beauty! Very, very good. Not quite what it was but dam fine.  Even better if you want you can sit behind the speakers and it sounds the same!

 

Now I just need to work out how to make the rest of the house work with the hifi in the middle of the living room.85FA39F6-DC6E-4CFA-B701-4DAF74B08A26.thumb.jpeg.2627bbae482fa5cfa67ce8ec75858df2.jpegEBA3214A-D6F7-4CD5-9017-43CD0DC5AEB6.thumb.jpeg.cf9783c5af6b95884f1ff58fe2e1f063.jpegC56A2036-8386-491F-B83C-F7CB561B2C97.thumb.jpeg.ceb36ac45f1a5984d7c7fad8dd4d083a.jpeg470F2241-69D5-41F2-8B70-C27B080DD692.thumb.jpeg.41faa766e737593e1139c9537c27a185.jpegE9B9F69B-1E08-461C-9011-6ACCF517539F.thumb.jpeg.e64760d3f2243cf54b803434c6b52a5c.jpeg696A1AF4-A9AC-4DC2-B9D1-18FB3440B194.thumb.jpeg.253a20544367e4a430066ca612970597.jpeg

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Ampapolooza 2.

 

Alright, finally figured out this new room, now it is time to see what is possible, time for ampapolooza  2.

 

The contenders. 

 

Audion push pull 300 B Monoblocks. 

Age = old

Power = 20 Watts.

Strengths = beautiful, liquid, holographic,fast. 

Weaknesses = no power and a 3 Ohm load to push.

Hiden talent = got a 2 Ohm tap.

 

Pass Labs  XA 30.5.

Age = youthful.

Power = 30 Watts Class A, lots more class a/b

Strengths = No trouble driving low impedance. Class A

Weakness = gets hot, but not big valve hot.

Hidden talent = should be a perfect match 30 Watts into 96dB and plenty of current.

 

Bryston 14BSST.

Age = no spring chicken 

Power = 600 Watts 

Strengths = Power, mid bass muscle, unbreakable.

Weakness = class a/b, not a looker.

Hidden talent = welding.

 

 

DAF7A868-DBF8-44F4-A3CB-5FFEC1A0EEB9.jpeg

5F4744DA-DB87-44CF-9ED9-8BC3BCDD51F0.jpeg

418695DD-6A75-4601-9DC9-4773105A9783.jpeg

98BDF3A1-422D-4464-B054-0D435BE35884.jpeg

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On 14/05/2019 at 7:58 PM, Ooogh said:

Now I just need to work out how to make the rest of the house work with the hifi in the middle of the living room.

I nearly spilt my coffee over the keyboard reading this, classic.

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On 04/06/2019 at 6:57 PM, Ooogh said:

Ampapolooza 2.

 

Alright, finally figured out this new room, now it is time to see what is possible, time for ampapolooza  2.

 

The contenders. 

 

Audion push pull 300 B Monoblocks. 

Age = old

Power = 20 Watts.

Strengths = beautiful, liquid, holographic,fast. 

Weaknesses = no power and a 3 Ohm load to push.

Hiden talent = got a 2 Ohm tap.

 

Pass Labs  XA 30.5.

Age = youthful.

Power = 30 Watts Class A, lots more class a/b

Strengths = No trouble driving low impedance. Class A

Weakness = gets hot, but not big valve hot.

Hidden talent = should be a perfect match 30 Watts into 96dB and plenty of current.

 

Bryston 14BSST.

Age = no spring chicken 

Power = 600 Watts 

Strengths = Power, mid bass muscle, unbreakable.

Weakness = class a/b, not a looker.

Hidden talent = welding.

 

 

DAF7A868-DBF8-44F4-A3CB-5FFEC1A0EEB9.jpeg

5F4744DA-DB87-44CF-9ED9-8BC3BCDD51F0.jpeg

418695DD-6A75-4601-9DC9-4773105A9783.jpeg

98BDF3A1-422D-4464-B054-0D435BE35884.jpeg

So @Ooogh what's the verdict?

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On 04/06/2019 at 7:27 PM, Ooogh said:

Ampapolooza 2.

 

Alright, finally figured out this new room, now it is time to see what is possible, time for ampapolooza  2.

 

The contenders. 

 

Audion push pull 300 B Monoblocks. 

Age = old

Power = 20 Watts.

Strengths = beautiful, liquid, holographic,fast. 

Weaknesses = no power and a 3 Ohm load to push.

Hiden talent = got a 2 Ohm tap.

 

Pass Labs  XA 30.5.

Age = youthful.

Power = 30 Watts Class A, lots more class a/b

Strengths = No trouble driving low impedance. Class A

Weakness = gets hot, but not big valve hot.

Hidden talent = should be a perfect match 30 Watts into 96dB and plenty of current.

 

Bryston 14BSST.

Age = no spring chicken 

Power = 600 Watts 

Strengths = Power, mid bass muscle, unbreakable.

Weakness = class a/b, not a looker.

Hidden talent = welding.

 

 

DAF7A868-DBF8-44F4-A3CB-5FFEC1A0EEB9.jpeg

5F4744DA-DB87-44CF-9ED9-8BC3BCDD51F0.jpeg

418695DD-6A75-4601-9DC9-4773105A9783.jpeg

98BDF3A1-422D-4464-B054-0D435BE35884.jpeg

Great to be in a position to have to make such a choice. Of the solid states, having heard both the Bryston and Pass labs (which I owned) I would go with the Pass labs in a heart beat. It is warm and more valve like in sound, plenty of power to drive speakers, and will keep you toasty warm in winter, looks beautiful too

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2 hours ago, Willmax said:

So @Ooogh what's the verdict?

And the winner is........actually none of them.

 

I love my Audions but this is a bridge too far. Via the 2 Ohm tap they do some wonderful things. Pull the speakers way out and you can walk through the sound stage. Stuff like 10CC’s ‘I’m not in love’ just cascades around the room. Again with Lou Reeds ‘Take a walk on the Wild side ‘ the girls march forward 10 feet. I am yet to hear a SS amp that nails this stuff properly. The tiny nuances that express vocal phrasing and great singers  is there, not to the point of the PSE Silver Nights but delivering the wonders of the 300B. However, the demands of the load down low are just too much. Bass lacks bounce ,drive and leading edge.

 

The 14 BSTT  Bryston is getting on. Obviously not lacking in wedding tackle but it is just too slow. Plenty of mid bass weight but no speed down low. Sounds a bit lazy. The 4B3 was a different kettle of fish, lightning fast with awesome bass control , detail in spades and true sparkle up top with no edge. That Bryston made electric guitar explode from the speakers. Bad mistake selling it.

 

Now the Pass Labs. It does so much right but just not enough. It treads the middle ground with out quite being wonderful. In the end it doesn’t do anything amazing. Great balance top to bottom but lack real sparkle up top, just plays it too safe. In my opinion great treble sits just on the correct side of getting ‘sharp and pointy’. It needs true zing, great treble has to shimmer. Bass is very good, lots of bounce and boing, fat enough and fast enough but falls short of what these speakers can do with a 4B3 and possibly shaded by a Yamaha B2. Soundstage is wide enough without extending walls like the Audions but not quite deep enough for me. Midrange is smooth and detailed but again not quite as detailed as the Audions and 4B3 are, in different ways, to me great valve detail and SS detail are capturing different parts of the equation.

 

So where does this leave me? Well I have heard these speakers do EVERYTHING I want a speaker to do. Just not all with one amp. I have the correct speakers, they dig deep < 30 Hz in room. They can be lightning fast , weighty and tonally correct down there. The mid range can seduce and capture the true essence of great vocalists, guitars can show the wood and nylon of acoustic and sheer explosive fury of electric. Treble can sparkle and shimmer. They image and soundstage with the best of them.

 

A big heavy hitting valve amp, Conrad Johnston comes to mind, might just do it. However a boat load of power valves can be a burden and the desire to continually roll valves, just to be sure,  gets expensive. I wouldn’t bother with less than a hundred Watts, probably want 200. VTL?

 

However, had a friends big Ayre blasting a pair of Gales last week and it was rocking. Hopefully get it over soon and give it a whirl.  I have a sneaking suspicion it might come pretty close to doing the business. As always, you just don’t know till you plug ‘em in.

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41DCB147-4AD6-4A04-9375-2F476B1C99DD.thumb.jpeg.389cd3ed40ff9bde657790f38596c5b5.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Ooogh said:

And the winner is........actually none of them.

 

I love my Audions but this is a bridge too far. Via the 2 Ohm tap they do some wonderful things. Pull the speakers way out and you can walk through the sound stage. Stuff like 10CC’s ‘I’m not in love’ just cascades around the room. Again with Lou Reeds ‘Take a walk on the Wild side ‘ the girls march forward 10 feet. I am yet to hear a SS amp that nails this stuff properly. The tiny nuances that express vocal phrasing and great singers  is there, not to the point of the PSE Silver Nights but delivering the wonders of the 300B. However, the demands of the load down low are just too much. Bass lacks bounce ,drive and leading edge.

 

The 14 BSTT  Bryston is getting on. Obviously not lacking in wedding tackle but it is just too slow. Plenty of mid bass weight but no speed down low. Sounds a bit lazy. The 4B3 was a different kettle of fish, lightning fast with awesome bass control , detail in spades and true sparkle up top with no edge. That Bryston made electric guitar explode from the speakers. Bad mistake selling it.

 

Now the Pass Labs. It does so much right but just not enough. It treads the middle ground with out quite being wonderful. In the end it doesn’t do anything amazing. Great balance top to bottom but lack real sparkle up top, just plays it too safe. In my opinion great treble sits just on the correct side of getting ‘sharp and pointy’. It needs true zing, great treble has to shimmer. Bass is very good, lots of bounce and boing, fat enough and fast enough but falls short of what these speakers can do with a 4B3 and possibly shaded by a Yamaha B2. Soundstage is wide enough without extending walls like the Audions but not quite deep enough for me. Midrange is smooth and detailed but again not quite as detailed as the Audions and 4B3 are, in different ways, to me great valve detail and SS detail are capturing different parts of the equation.

 

So where does this leave me? Well I have heard these speakers do EVERYTHING I want a speaker to do. Just not all with one amp. I have the correct speakers, they dig deep < 30 Hz in room. They can be lightning fast , weighty and tonally correct down there. The mid range can seduce and capture the true essence of great vocalists, guitars can show the wood and nylon of acoustic and sheer explosive fury of electric. Treble can sparkle and shimmer. They image and soundstage with the best of them.

 

A big heavy hitting valve amp, Conrad Johnston comes to mind, might just do it. However a boat load of power valves can be a burden and the desire to continually roll valves, just to be sure,  gets expensive. I wouldn’t bother with less than a hundred Watts, probably want 200. VTL?

 

However, had a friends big Ayre blasting a pair of Gales last week and it was rocking. Hopefully get it over soon and give it a whirl.  I have a sneaking suspicion it might come pretty close to doing the business. As always, you just don’t know till you plug ‘em in.

Ah okay, for the man that wants everything in an amplifier.....Gryphon.

 

 

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