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Rocking In The Granny Flat


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  • 1 month later...
45 minutes ago, Tony M said:

Hmmm - can you read the volume level from across the room?

 

If so, I like it already!  

 

Funny ( actually sad :() how priorities change with age.

Indeed you can Tony, no need for a Mr Magoo magnifying glass to see this one.

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59 minutes ago, evil c said:

Oooh that looks familiar!

(No not mine! ) 

We demand more information,  pretty please!,?

Well my Evil friend......

I understand why so many speak so fondly of the Conrad Johnston sound. It is full, with plenty of weight through the upper bass and lower mids. Very smooth. Nothing offensive across the spectrum. Dynamic, but not explosive. Rich.

 

However......To me it is very deliberately voiced. The lower registers have a ‘tubbyness’. No doubt designed with the idea of ‘tube sound’ but it lacks the insight of skin and string great valves display. I find the leading edge a little slow. Not the king of fine detail, paints with broader brush strokes. Percussion is good but snares don’t ‘crack’ properly. My wife describes it as ‘sparkley’.  A bit like a fairytale , everything is very enjoyable.

 

Not the sound for me.  Really, really nice, but I would miss the fine detail, startling dynamics, taught bass.  Similar to Cary,  I don’t like equipment that has a tailored tone. A bit like finding out the girl you dig is using the same cute ploy to keep others on the leash.

 

Tonal truth is held in fine detail, true detail , not the forced incorrect type, is a commodity that is difficult to find.

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19 minutes ago, Ooogh said:

Well my Evil friend......

I understand why so many speak so fondly of the Conrad Johnston sound. It is full, with plenty of weight through the upper bass and lower mids. Very smooth. Nothing offensive across the spectrum. Dynamic, but not explosive. Rich.

 

However......To me it is very deliberately voiced. The lower registers have a ‘tubbyness’. No doubt designed with the idea of ‘tube sound’ but it lacks the insight of skin and string great valves display. I find the leading edge a little slow. Not the king of fine detail, paints with broader brush strokes. Percussion is good but snares don’t ‘crack’ properly. My wife describes it as ‘sparkley’.  A bit like a fairytale , everything is very enjoyable.

 

Not the sound for me.  Really, really nice, but I would miss the fine detail, startling dynamics, taught bass.  Similar to Cary,  I don’t like equipment that has a tailored tone. A bit like finding out the girl you dig is using the same cute ploy to keep others on the leash.

 

Tonal truth is held in fine detail, true detail , not the forced incorrect type, is a commodity that is difficult to find.

 

Very interesting comment, O!!  :thumb:

 

So what are the great valve amps which display "the insight of skin and string ", IYO?

 

And do you think ss amps lack this attribute?

 

Andy

 

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A little bit of clarification. The ideal sound I am comparing the CJ to costs far more. At the second hand price for this integrated amplifier it is an absolute bargain. Many of us happily pay more for just a preamp. Add the cost and complexity of finding the right interconnects and this is a sonic beauty. Can I think of a combination of pre/power at this price point that would compete? Nope.

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7 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Very interesting comment, O!!  :thumb:

 

So what are the great valve amps which display "the insight of skin and string ", IYO?

 

And do you think ss amps lack this attribute?

 

Andy

 

Hate to hark back to Audions, especially 300B based ones which have always been seen as ‘weak’  in the lower registers. However I find they capture parts of the equation that I love. It is the illusion of the actual vibrating string, the ‘tension’ of the skin and volume of the resonating vessel. Given they require the correct set up to shine. A pair of Golden nights connected to three way concrete horns and a back wall built with 20 tonne folded concrete horns with 15” drivers was still the finest sound I ever heard. I have heard some big Lumleys and AudioNote amps really capture these attributes. It is not all wins however, recent listening to quality SS has shown just how many swings and roundabouts there are.

 

No I don’t think that all  SS lacks this attribute. The bass of the Bryston 4B3 was magnificent. As a total picture of bass reproduction it was just spectacular. The simple speed, rise time, leading edge and dynamic range changed my perspective. The level of detail gave so much more insight. In terms of electric guitar strings, amazing.

 

Would a huge class A Krell capture the best of both? I don’t know, haven’t heard one!  The PassLabs I have been enjoying captures the skin, crack and vessel of snare drum beautifully.

 

I think with the CJ it imparts it’s tonality on the performance, rather than the performances tonality imparting on the system.

 

Combine the finest attributes of the Bryston, Audions and PassLabs and I will die a happy man.

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34 minutes ago, metal beat said:

Don't forget, the cj inverts absolute phase.

 

The more recent cj models have less of the golden glow. 

Indeed. First thing I did was to make sure I wired it up wrong! Does anyone know why an amplifier manufacturer would deliberately invert absolute phase and then spend two pages of the owners manual telling you have to overcome it? Seems insane to me!

 

This model is about 5 years old, would it have the old or new school CJ sound?

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1 hour ago, Ooogh said:

Well my Evil friend......

I understand why so many speak so fondly of the Conrad Johnston sound. It is full, with plenty of weight through the upper bass and lower mids. Very smooth. Nothing offensive across the spectrum. Dynamic, but not explosive. Rich.

 

However......To me it is very deliberately voiced. The lower registers have a ‘tubbyness’. No doubt designed with the idea of ‘tube sound’ but it lacks the insight of skin and string great valves display. I find the leading edge a little slow. Not the king of fine detail, paints with broader brush strokes. Percussion is good but snares don’t ‘crack’ properly. My wife describes it as ‘sparkley’.  A bit like a fairytale , everything is very enjoyable.

 

Not the sound for me.  Really, really nice, but I would miss the fine detail, startling dynamics, taught bass.  Similar to Cary,  I don’t like equipment that has a tailored tone. A bit like finding out the girl you dig is using the same cute ploy to keep others on the leash.

 

Tonal truth is held in fine detail, true detail , not the forced incorrect type, is a commodity that is difficult to find.

Ouch, a very insightful appraisal after a mere few hours of listening!

I did in fact agonize about whether the CJ would be the right fit for you, Hugh.

 

The tonality of the mids is one of the strengths of CJ, the question is if it's the style that you're seeking!

We are never static in this game, always seeking nirvana or new truth in what we seek.

 

Therfore it can come down to the timing - 

Might have been perfect for you a year ago, then you had to get fixated on the joyful qualities of bass reproduction with the 4B3 !

 

Very hard to replicate with anything less than an arc welder ME or Krell! ?

 

Maybe just reset the initial assessments/ prejudices and let things settle in and perhaps try tweaking with interconnects etc.

 

The CA200 is a very smooth sounding amplifier on first impressions sure, but after lengthy listening I've ascertained that there's very little missing from the musical equation - harshness or an edge can be very quickly fatiguing!

This is an attribute never applying to CJ amps.

 

Maybe you just need to change your speakers, they're possibly incompatible! ?

 

 

 

Edited by evil c
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29 minutes ago, Ooogh said:

Indeed. First thing I did was to make sure I wired it up wrong! Does anyone know why an amplifier manufacturer would deliberately invert absolute phase and then spend two pages of the owners manual telling you have to overcome it? Seems insane to me!

 

This model is about 5 years old, would it have the old or new school CJ sound?

 

The CA 200 is close to 13 years old - released last 2006/early 2007 .  It's old school cj sound but also the start of the new. the CA200 does not have an active line stage, its a passive stepped attenuator which to me makes it lack the snap and drive that cj tube preamps generally have.  long term listening is what cj are all about.

 

Why does invert absolute phase - because it is a single voltage gain stage.  cj believe the single gain stage sounds better as its more pure/direct. 

 

All cj preamps invert absolute phase as they are based on a audio amplifier stage consisting of a single-ended triode amplifier provides the voltage gain.

 

 

 

 

.     

Edited by metal beat
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10 minutes ago, evil c said:

Ouch, a very insightful appraisal after a mere few hours of listening!

I did in fact agonize about whether the CJ would be the right fit for you, Hugh.

 

The tonality of the mids is one of the strengths of CJ, the question is if it's the style that you're seeking!

We are never static in this game, always seeking nirvana or new truth in what we seek.

 

Therfore it can come down to the timing - 

Might have been perfect for you a year ago, then you had to get fixated on the joyful qualities of bass reproduction with the 4B3 !

 

Very hard to replicate with anything less than an arc welder ME or Krell! ?

 

Maybe just reset the initial assessments/ prejudices and let things settle in and perhaps try tweaking with interconnects etc.

 

The CA200 is a very smooth sounding amplifier on first impressions sure, but after lengthy listening I've ascertained that there's very little missing from the musical equation - harshness or an edge can be very quickly fatiguing!

This is an attribute never applying to CJ amps.

 

Maybe you just need to change your speakers, they're possibly incompatible! ?

 

 

 

Don’t sweat it Clive. Frankly it is amazing sound for the price. I was keen as mustard to sample the CJ sound having never heard one. Remember I am comparing it to pre/power combinations that would cost considerably more. The AN Bryson combo second hand would be more than twice the price and the PassLabs / AN close to twice as much. They should bring a whole bunch more to the table!  Also these are beautifully voiced speakers. Most speakers usually crave some extra fullness and a rich midrange. These particular girls seem to revel in very neutral detailed amplifiers. No regrets here.  I can very happily resell at the purchase price and have absolutely no reservations that it is a great buy. It also has remote control! 
 

Listening to Anouk, the vocals are exquisite, there is a real solidity to the performance. I am sure many listeners would prefer the presentation of the CJ to both the PassLabs and Bryston. Horses for courses.

 

I will drag the speakers further into the room tomorrow, it will probably suit the CJ’s less forward presentation.

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On 30/08/2019 at 4:38 PM, Ooogh said:

Good grief, what an absolute BRUTE of an amp! This thing reminds me of watching George Foreman working the heavy bag when he was undefeated. It just wants to break things in half. Me, my speakers, the house.....

 

The bass is prodigious, heavy ,deep. Stuff is rattling around here. Real thump. What it would do on the end of a pair of 12 or 18” drivers I hate to think. Not all the detail, overtones and stuff others produce but pure rock ‘n roll weight. Not one note I hasten to add, just not all the Audiophile filigree.

 

Not at all grainy ,hard or sharp. It also doesn’t fall over itself when things get complex, it hides detail in those situations but doesn’t become a mess, just deals with the meat and gravy while ignoring the chopped parsley. Mids and treble don’t ‘glow’ but again it gives you the story, it thrusts it on you. It doesn’t explode stuff at you, again it is a heavy weight that just breaks your jaw with a hook instead of jabbing you three times on the cheek.

 

It lacks the tonal complexity of the Pass Labs but where you listen to the nuisances of the snare with Counting Crows on the Pass it just smacks a snare hard in the living room.

 

Those 60 Class A Watts sound like four times the power the PassLabs rather than two. Switching to class A/B things are not as good. The sound thins out, looses the sheer weight. No lack of juice in Class A with my speakers however, I fear I would fry my ribbons, ears or mind before it gave up.

 

Given the price point Vincent sell this amplifier at it is remarkable value. Anyone tired of insipid sound and a lack of bottom end should do themselves a favour. Personally I think Vincent should produce a pure Class A 60 to 100 Watt amp at the same price. Do away with the ultimate power of the A/B section and invest those funds into refining what they have already achieved. I think that would be a very distinct amplifier that would find a lot of friends.

 

Need to spend some time in the garden, I feel like I just got beat up by something three weight divisions above me.

I have the SP-994 in my Collection, is it possible for you to audition the SP-998 Mono Blocks? They will give you more of the refinement and subtilties you require while keeping the Weight & Power.

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20 hours ago, initforthemusic said:

I have the SP-994 in my Collection, is it possible for you to audition the SP-998 Mono Blocks? They will give you more of the refinement and subtilties you require while keeping the Weight & Power.

Unfortunately not, I have been very lucky to have been able to sample such a wide variety of SS amps in my home over the last few months.

 

Truth be told I think I will purchase the PassLabs that does so much right and wait for another Bryston 4B3, PassLabs 60.5 or Mangus 300 to come on the market. All three seem to show their faces very rarely!

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  • 4 weeks later...

A big box arrived today. Full circle we go. Fabulous. Nothing I have heard does bass, dynamics and detail like Bryston. Treble has sparkle, so rarely heard. Not as completely translucent as the 4B3, the new input section is just cleaner with an unbelievably low, non existent, noise floor. Found a keeper. If you own Ambience Speakers, you simply have to hear their synergy with late model Brystons.E2BBAF5C-4AB8-43CE-896C-8F519915C296.thumb.jpeg.5047ce2cad567f6b451beb292451f373.jpegA66A4C57-1443-486A-9405-E98358149712.thumb.jpeg.97ab5f25c650e009c84d763e1e72676e.jpegAFB6D46C-DB77-46A6-82AA-632D3D21F3CB.thumb.jpeg.1776a9e33d53dc4fa65efdd4f9970d9a.jpeg

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17 minutes ago, Ooogh said:

A big box arrived today. Full circle we go. Fabulous. Nothing I have heard does bass, dynamics and detail like Bryston. Treble has sparkle, so rarely heard. Not as completely translucent as the 4B3, the new input section is just cleaner with an unbelievably low, non existent, noise floor. Found a keeper. If you own Ambience Speakers, you simply have to hear their synergy with late model Brystons.E2BBAF5C-4AB8-43CE-896C-8F519915C296.thumb.jpeg.5047ce2cad567f6b451beb292451f373.jpegA66A4C57-1443-486A-9405-E98358149712.thumb.jpeg.97ab5f25c650e009c84d763e1e72676e.jpegAFB6D46C-DB77-46A6-82AA-632D3D21F3CB.thumb.jpeg.1776a9e33d53dc4fa65efdd4f9970d9a.jpeg

Great stuff Hugh, my pangs of guilt have been assuaged - while wallowing in the rich dynamic tones of your old 4B3.

The cosmos sure took it's time but! ?

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1 hour ago, evil c said:

Great stuff Hugh, my pangs of guilt have been assuaged - while wallowing in the rich dynamic tones of your old 4B3.

The cosmos sure took it's time but! ?

Must say I like the handles Clive, adds a bit of panache. It looks rather demure next to the PassLabs. Strange how attractive a seemingly bland box can be. Really good industrial design. Everyone seems to want black though!

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1 hour ago, Ooogh said:

Must say I like the handles Clive, adds a bit of panache. It looks rather demure next to the PassLabs. Strange how attractive a seemingly bland box can be. Really good industrial design. Everyone seems to want black though!

TBH I was quite taken with one of these on loan , probably like the silver more and looks to have blended in well on your rack!

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4 hours ago, Darryl said:

Wow, you've taught your chicken to lay it's eggs directly into the frypan?.

Indeed Darryl. It took some intense training, basically I followed the whole Clockwork Orange therapy doctrine.

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