Rocking In The Granny Flat

[Gremrock]

I had both standard and reference 1800s, the current owner ran them after we traded speakers and it was the best I've heard them. 

 

Ill ask the question:)

[evil c]

1 hour ago, Ooogh said:

Ah Clive you Evil C! I made the offer old friend, my fault for being impatient. Very glad it lived up to expectations, would have been very disappointing if it had sucked.

 

Which CJ’s did you try? If offered a straight swap for the SS version would you take it or keep the Bryston? Was there a standout amongst them?Looking for ‘the one’ so no use stepping sideways. Was the Gryphon a better thing or just swings and roundabouts?

 

I was thinking of you only yesterday, saw that Allnic preamp and thought, ‘maybe Clive will buy it and I’ll grab his CJ!’  I still think you have the best moniker and avatar on SNA, you truly are an Evil C!

There's no looking back Hugh,  onward and upward!

Look at the time I was totally enamored with a 2100 CJ power amp which highlighted the signature magical sound they have and after that to a CA-200 Control amp which is extra special. 

At 185w/ channel certainly has plenty in the tank !

 

Back to original question- currently , out of my dead cold hands!

 

The Vitus R100 and Gryphon shared some similarities,  Very smooth sounding but liked the tad more dynamic edge and depth  with the Bryston/ CJ pre.

Edit:

Forgot to mention a friend brought over a Magtech amp and TBH I didn't know what to expect. 

It was a very capable amplifier I could easily slot into my system. 

 

But horses for courses, they are all very good amplifiers in their own right!

Edited July 18, 2019 by evil c

[Ooogh]

I see you lurking there @Tony M.  Figuring you might need a Mangus to stick 300 Watts up your Gales!

[Yamaha_man]

1 hour ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

It started with the reference one monoblocks

Well you’ve just trumped me in a single sentence.

 

[Tony M]

2 hours ago, Ooogh said:

I see you lurking there @Tony M.  Figuring you might need a Mangus to stick 300 Watts up your Gales!

Ha!  I'm older and slower than you.  No way I could keep up with the pace of your amp quests, but it's fascinating looking on and I will hopefully find my way to Happy valley soon to have a listen to whatever supects you have in custody at the time.

 

I guess it's possible the Magnus could be the holy grail, but my bet would have to be on a more mainstream solution, simply because that's the way it's worked out most often in my experience.

 

A bigger class A Passlabs would have to be a good bet, based on the evidence so far and would avoid the tube hassles you mentioned.  Unfortunately, that would be a rare beast in this neck of the woods. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Tony M

[Ooogh]

16 minutes ago, Tony M said:

Ha!  I'm older and slower that you.  No way I could keep up with the pace of your amp quests, but it's fascinating looking on and I will hopefully find my way to Happy valley soon to have a listen to whatever supects you have in custody at the time.

 

I guess it's possible the Magnus could be the holy grail, but my bet would have to be on a more mainstream solution, simply because that's the way it's worked out most often in my experience.

 

A bigger class A Passlabs would have to be a good bet, based on the evidence so far and would avoid the tube hassles you mentioned.  Unfortunately, that would be a rare beast in this neck of the woods. 

May I add that it is Tony’s Pass Labs currently residing in my rack on extended loan whilst I search for my next amplifier. Many thanks Tony. As always I am very thankful for the generosity and friendships that we have formed here in Adelaide due to SNA.  It is in my opinion that greatest asset of this site, the ability to connect people with a shared hobby to enjoy each other’s company. We have constant enjoyable GTG’s here and I have learnt more from our shared systems in the last few years than a lifetime prior mucking about with hifi. 

[Willmax]

On 18/07/2019 at 4:33 PM, Ooogh said:

And the winner is........actually none of them.

 

I love my Audions but this is a bridge too far. Via the 2 Ohm tap they do some wonderful things. Pull the speakers way out and you can walk through the sound stage. Stuff like 10CC’s ‘I’m not in love’ just cascades around the room. Again with Lou Reeds ‘Take a walk on the Wild side ‘ the girls march forward 10 feet. I am yet to hear a SS amp that nails this stuff properly. The tiny nuances that express vocal phrasing and great singers  is there, not to the point of the PSE Silver Nights but delivering the wonders of the 300B. However, the demands of the load down low are just too much. Bass lacks bounce ,drive and leading edge.

 

The 14 BSTT  Bryston is getting on. Obviously not lacking in wedding tackle but it is just too slow. Plenty of mid bass weight but no speed down low. Sounds a bit lazy. The 4B3 was a different kettle of fish, lightning fast with awesome bass control , detail in spades and true sparkle up top with no edge. That Bryston made electric guitar explode from the speakers. Bad mistake selling it.

 

Now the Pass Labs. It does so much right but just not enough. It treads the middle ground with out quite being wonderful. In the end it doesn’t do anything amazing. Great balance top to bottom but lack real sparkle up top, just plays it too safe. In my opinion great treble sits just on the correct side of getting ‘sharp and pointy’. It needs true zing, great treble has to shimmer. Bass is very good, lots of bounce and boing, fat enough and fast enough but falls short of what these speakers can do with a 4B3 and possibly shaded by a Yamaha B2. Soundstage is wide enough without extending walls like the Audions but not quite deep enough for me. Midrange is smooth and detailed but again not quite as detailed as the Audions and 4B3 are, in different ways, to me great valve detail and SS detail are capturing different parts of the equation.

 

So where does this leave me? Well I have heard these speakers do EVERYTHING I want a speaker to do. Just not all with one amp. I have the correct speakers, they dig deep < 30 Hz in room. They can be lightning fast , weighty and tonally correct down there. The mid range can seduce and capture the true essence of great vocalists, guitars can show the wood and nylon of acoustic and sheer explosive fury of electric. Treble can sparkle and shimmer. They image and soundstage with the best of them.

 

A big heavy hitting valve amp, Conrad Johnston comes to mind, might just do it. However a boat load of power valves can be a burden and the desire to continually roll valves, just to be sure,  gets expensive. I wouldn’t bother with less than a hundred Watts, probably want 200. VTL?

 

However, had a friends big Ayre blasting a pair of Gales last week and it was rocking. Hopefully get it over soon and give it a whirl.  I have a sneaking suspicion it might come pretty close to doing the business. As always, you just don’t know till you plug ‘em in.

Hey @Ooogh thanks for the detailed review, nothing like a 3 way amp shoot out to keep things interesting.

I'll have to drop by sometime to feel it in the flesh  

[Pegasus]

For what it's worth, I'm powering a pair of Ambience 1800 References with a Pass Labs X 250.5.

They sound great. The crossovers have been replaced and the bass drivers are now not out of phase.

I supplement the bottom end with a set of ported subs running 12" Peerless drivers.

[Ooogh]

20 hours ago, Willmax said:

Hey @Ooogh thanks for the detailed review, nothing like a 3 way amp shoot out to keep things interesting.

I'll have to drop by sometime to feel it in the flesh  

Sounds like a winner Willmax, GTG here soon, was awaiting the arrival of an Ayre to do battle but it has had a little problem......very sad.

 

 

[Ooogh]

7 hours ago, Pegasus said:

For what it's worth, I'm powering a pair of Ambience 1800 References with a Pass Labs X 250.5.

They sound great. The crossovers have been replaced and the bass drivers are now not out of phase.

I supplement the bottom end with a set of ported subs running 12" Peerless drivers.

You might just be talking my language Pegasus. I have just asked the question where the sweet spot in the Pass Labs range is and I have a feeling you might be sitting right in it. What are the specs on the 250? How far does it push class A before it switches into AB? How hard are you running the speakers before the needle starts to boogie showing the amp is starting to change classes?

 

Sounds like you must being enjoying some bloody good sound mate, I know what I am enjoying and that is a class up, half your luck! 

[Pegasus]

1 hour ago, Ooogh said:

You might just be talking my language Pegasus. I have just asked the question where the sweet spot in the Pass Labs range is and I have a feeling you might be sitting right in it. What are the specs on the 250? How far does it push class A before it switches into AB? How hard are you running the speakers before the needle starts to boogie showing the amp is starting to change classes?

 

Sounds like you must being enjoying some bloody good sound mate, I know what I am enjoying and that is a class up, half your luck! 

X250.5 is 15 W Class A. The Ambiences are 96db efficient, so they don't need a lot of power. Tony Moore states 75w per channel maximum.

When the bass driver inductor coil was faulty, I managed to put 768W per channel into a .5ohm resistance through them.

The Pass Labs didn't raise a sweat. In normal use, the power meter barely moves.

I also have a very large pair of SGR passive speakers that appreciate a decent amount of current to drive the 13 inch Focal bass drivers.

Have a look at https://www.queenslandaudio.club/march-2019, https://www.queenslandaudio.club/2017-january and https://www.queenslandaudio.club/2016-janu

[Ooogh]

28 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

X250.5 is 15 W Class A. The Ambiences are 96db efficient, so they don't need a lot of power. Tony Moore states 75w per channel maximum.

When the bass driver inductor coil was faulty, I managed to put 768W per channel into a .5ohm resistance through them.

The Pass Labs didn't raise a sweat. In normal use, the power meter barely moves.

I also have a very large pair of SGR passive speakers that appreciate a decent amount of current to drive the 13 inch Focal bass drivers.

Have a look at https://www.queenslandaudio.club/march-2019, https://www.queenslandaudio.club/2017-january and https://www.queenslandaudio.club/2016-janu

Big beast isn’t she. Almost as long as the Ribbons are high! I REALLY want some of that cake!

[Willmax]

3 hours ago, Ooogh said:

Sounds like a winner Willmax, GTG here soon, was awaiting the arrival of an Ayre to do battle but it has had a little problem......very sad.

 

 

Oh sorry to hear about that, hope that's not too bad?!

I'd be happy to throw my Yammy M-2 in the ring, curious how it would fare with the Gales as well given its 240 watts @ 8 ohms output.

[The Fez]

I'll just drop this pic in here if I may -- I found this whilst going through some files, and looks like people on here are mentioning Vfets, and Yamaha and various power amps such as Pass etc, etc. might find this of interest to see the size comparison of these amps. Poor little B-2 squashed between those cubes...

 

This pic was taken when I was auditioning some speakers a while back - B-2 & MF Pre are mine -- rest not.. 

[Ooogh]

On 22/07/2019 at 10:13 PM, Willmax said:

Oh sorry to hear about that, hope that's not too bad?!

I'd be happy to throw my Yammy M-2 in the ring, curious how it would fare with the Gales as well given its 240 watts @ 8 ohms output.

Sounds like a winner buddy. Ayre is back in action but depending if the owner gets the thumbs up from the missus it might be off to Melbourne for an update to hot rod status.

 

Gales unfortunately are not here, they reside with @Tony M...checked out a local pair two weeks back that almost ended up with @christosd but just not quite good enough veneers. There is a run on them at the moment!

 

If the Ayre stays in town a weekend catch up will be on the cards.

[Ooogh]

On 23/07/2019 at 5:39 PM, The Fez said:

I'll just drop this pic in here if I may -- I found this whilst going through some files, and looks like people on here are mentioning Vfets, and Yamaha and various power amps such as Pass etc, etc. might find this of interest to see the size comparison of these amps. Poor little B-2 squashed between those cubes...

 

This pic was taken when I was auditioning some speakers a while back - B-2 & MF Pre are mine -- rest not.. 

Good grief, what are they ? XA 160 or 200’s? Or even bigger? Better hope there are no cracks in the slab or they could wreck the foundations.

Did you get to have a listen?

[tubularbells]

They tell me it's not the size but how you use it that counts 

 

But good grief that poor B2 must be shaking in his boots most likely giving the poor bugger performance anxiety.

[The Fez]

2 hours ago, Ooogh said:

Good grief, what are they ? XA 160 or 200’s? Or even bigger? Better hope there are no cracks in the slab or they could wreck the foundations.

Did you get to have a listen?

These big power amps are Pass X600.5. They woulda been in there to drive some humungus Duntech speakers...

[Ooogh]

1 hour ago, The Fez said:

These big power amps are Pass X600.5. They woulda been in there to drive some humungus Duntech speakers...

Good lord, I figure they were probably up to the job, guess you could always grab an X1000 if they felt a little underpowered.

[Ooogh]

Six amps enter, only one can reign supreme. Ampapoloza 3, this time it’s personal

. Audion Silver Night push pull 300B Monoblocks. 20 Watts

M2 Yamaha 240 Watts Class AB

Yamaha B1 V-Fet 150 Watts

Ayre VX-5 150 Watts

Grant G100AS 70 Watts KT 77

PassLabs XA 30.5 30 Watts Class A 132 Watts class AB.

[The Fez]

I'm looking fwd to the outcome. Particularly with respect to the M2...Another amp that I would like to throw into that mix is the Yamaha B-2X.....Enjoy

[Willmax]

I feel for you @Ooogh. You must have had a tough weekend having to go through all those amps

This combination was probably the one that stood out for me and I think for @elcamry  as well.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Willmax

[Willmax]

On 27/07/2019 at 7:27 PM, The Fez said:

I'm looking fwd to the outcome. Particularly with respect to the M2...Another amp that I would like to throw into that mix is the Yamaha B-2X.....Enjoy

@The Fez M2 and Ambience for you.

 

 

[Ooogh]

Once again the generosity of the SNA community shines through. With many thanks to @Hazzzy (Rob) another heavy beast has arrived for audition. This time a Vincent SP-994. 60 Watts Class A, 300 Watts a/b into 8 Ohms and 600 into 4 Ohms.  Well known to punch above their price point this should be interesting with double the Class A of the PassLabs and the a/b output of the 4B3 Bryston that worked so well.

 

Review to follow, haven’t managed to plug her in yet!

[Ooogh]

Good grief, what an absolute BRUTE of an amp! This thing reminds me of watching George Foreman working the heavy bag when he was undefeated. It just wants to break things in half. Me, my speakers, the house.....

 

The bass is prodigious, heavy ,deep. Stuff is rattling around here. Real thump. What it would do on the end of a pair of 12 or 18” drivers I hate to think. Not all the detail, overtones and stuff others produce but pure rock ‘n roll weight. Not one note I hasten to add, just not all the Audiophile filigree.

 

Not at all grainy ,hard or sharp. It also doesn’t fall over itself when things get complex, it hides detail in those situations but doesn’t become a mess, just deals with the meat and gravy while ignoring the chopped parsley. Mids and treble don’t ‘glow’ but again it gives you the story, it thrusts it on you. It doesn’t explode stuff at you, again it is a heavy weight that just breaks your jaw with a hook instead of jabbing you three times on the cheek.

 

It lacks the tonal complexity of the Pass Labs but where you listen to the nuisances of the snare with Counting Crows on the Pass it just smacks a snare hard in the living room.

 

Those 60 Class A Watts sound like four times the power the PassLabs rather than two. Switching to class A/B things are not as good. The sound thins out, looses the sheer weight. No lack of juice in Class A with my speakers however, I fear I would fry my ribbons, ears or mind before it gave up.

 

Given the price point Vincent sell this amplifier at it is remarkable value. Anyone tired of insipid sound and a lack of bottom end should do themselves a favour. Personally I think Vincent should produce a pure Class A 60 to 100 Watt amp at the same price. Do away with the ultimate power of the A/B section and invest those funds into refining what they have already achieved. I think that would be a very distinct amplifier that would find a lot of friends.

 

Need to spend some time in the garden, I feel like I just got beat up by something three weight divisions above me.