freaky1 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) So what is the sweet spot dollarwise for phono pre's ? At what point does the law of diminishing returns kick where form overtakes function ? I'm shopping for a phono pre right now, and I'd be damned knowing what to go for. Great reviews for some DIY kits costing $50 bucks, but considering others all the way to $10k bling that have great reviews. So confusing. PS. Should note I have been thinking about this very same question about DACs. Why so expensive for computer chips, which are so cheap nowadays. Edited June 30, 2016 by freaky1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 PS. Should note I have been thinking about this very same question about DACs. Why so expensive for computer chips, which are so cheap nowadays. The thought occurred to me too, except I just don't care much about DACs. But the idea is interesting Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 So what is the sweet spot dollarwise for phono pre's ? At what point does the law of diminishing returns kick where form overtakes function ? I'm shopping for a phono pre right now, and I'd be damned knowing what to go for. Great reviews for some DIY kits costing $50 bucks, but considering others all the way to $10k bling that have great reviews. So confusing. PS. Should note I have been thinking about this very same question about DACs. Why so expensive for computer chips, which are so cheap nowadays. firstly dollars is never an indication sorry to say...and value very much in the ears, eyes and mind of the beholder.... ~ So confusing. doesnt HAVE to be... your ears eyes and mind can be a very good judge to work out what is best for you...have you checked anything out yourself ? eg in my case e.g. to do with topic of this thread lived with two phono stages in about similar ball park... in the end sold one.... was a close call.... both a good step up from the much cheaper stand alone had before ... and what little unit is bullt into my pre amp.... ~ PS. Should note I have been thinking about this very same question about DACs. Why so expensive for computer chips, which are so cheap nowadays. because it rarely if ever is about the $2 CHIP... its the dac implementation that determines the end result.... the quality of the analog stage the quality of the power supply... all these things cost a bit of money.... similarly with design, R&D, testing getting to market ... it costs... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromelang Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I would really like to own a phonostage wrapped up in non metallic chassis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockeater Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I would really like to own a phonostage wrapped up in non metallic chassis Metallic chassis is good, even important for phono stages. It shields low level signals from interference. But if you really would like to, I can oblige. Get a phono stage that you like and send it to me and i will transfer it into any box that you like. Will be done professionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketfrogs Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Little Bear wrapped in acrylic $150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal beat Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Good quality pre's with 'uber' craftsmanship, a 1cm thick front plate plus external power supply and outstanding performance don't always cost heaps.........this @ $359.00 posted:Vincent-PHO-8 Front on angle.jpg At every price point there will be outstanding performance and it sounds like the German Chinese Vincent os one of them. Unfortunately in my experience not many phono stages jump price points, especially in the ops expensive phono stages.. Edited June 30, 2016 by Metamatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freaky1 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) doesnt HAVE to be... your ears eyes and mind can be a very good judge to work out what is best for you...have you checked anything out yourself ? Yeah I have auditioned at a couple of hifi places, but not in my own system which makes it pointless. Different TT and cartridges to mine so makes it difficult to judge. Edited June 30, 2016 by freaky1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Yeah I have auditioned at a couple of hifi places, but not in my own system which makes it pointless. Different TT and cartridges to mine so makes it difficult to judge. Have you tried borrowing one or two ? There are help full retailers ... One even runs s loaner program here ... There are also supridingky helpful forum members done might be kind enough to bring they're around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hergest Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I would really like to own a phonostage wrapped up in non metallic chassis I had one in a perspex case, an English NVA. Sounded good but it was virtually impossible to prevent interference from any other electrical source as there was no shielding. It would hum if it got within a foot or two of anything with a transformer. Its own power source had to be as far away as possible or away it would hum. Radio interference on some nights was dreadful too and ABC 702 would be almost as loud as the signal from the cartridge. I wouldn't touch a non metallic one again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Discussions of non-metallic chassis always bring to my mind DNM (UK) who have been doing this since the early 80's. Edited June 30, 2016 by Newman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 So what is the sweet spot dollarwise for phono pre's ? At what point does the law of diminishing returns kick where form overtakes function ? I'm shopping for a phono pre right now, and I'd be damned knowing what to go for. Great reviews for some DIY kits costing $50 bucks, but considering others all the way to $10k bling that have great reviews. So confusing. PS. Should note I have been thinking about this very same question about DACs. Why so expensive for computer chips, which are so cheap nowadays. If tube is your thing, I think if in budget the Golden Age Audio Phono Stage would be well worth checking out. lovetube a member and sponsor here makes them, good quality parts used and very well executed builds by all accounts http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/87979-goldenageaudio-reference-phono-stage/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viognier Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 For a while now I've been thinking of doing a phono stage comparison GTG. Not a shoot out as such but rather moving through various price points and designs. It would be limited to one cart though otherwise it gets too hard. Anyway if there is interest in Sydney I am more than happy to put on some food and vino. Back to the OPs question. I think most of the uber priced phono pres you are paying for the R&D and then their small manufacturing runs which are expensive. A quote from the Ypsilon website "The road to VPS-100 took many turns in our long and extensive evaluation of topologies and materials, design and implementation." I'm sure the guys at Thrax would say the same thing. I don't think it matters if it's valve or solid state though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hensa Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 For a while now I've been thinking of doing a phono stage comparison GTG. Not a shoot out as such but rather moving through various price points and designs. It would be limited to one cart though otherwise it gets too hard. Anyway if there is interest in Sydney I am more than happy to put on some food and vino. You had me at "food and vino"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viognier Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 You had me at "food and vino"! That's good mate. You can bring the vino and cook the food then.[emoji3]It is time for another GTG though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromelang Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I had one in a perspex case, an English NVA. Sounded good but it was virtually impossible to prevent interference from any other electrical source as there was no shielding. It would hum if it got within a foot or two of anything with a transformer. Its own power source had to be as far away as possible or away it would hum. Radio interference on some nights was dreadful too and ABC 702 would be almost as loud as the signal from the cartridge. I wouldn't touch a non metallic one again. Its a matter of design.... I've had a Tom Evans Microgroove which was whisper quiet. OTOH, the latest Pass Labs flagship 2-box Phonostage XP25 is well known for hum problem if both chassis are sitting on top/near each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freaky1 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 If tube is your thing, I think if in budget the Golden Age Audio Phono Stage would be well worth checking out. lovetube a member and sponsor here makes them, good quality parts used and very well executed builds by all accounts http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/87979-goldenageaudio-reference-phono-stage/ Thanks for the lead, and yes i love tubes. Without sidetracking this thread, here is Earles Artisan 300b. Would a tube phono pre work with a tube amp or would this lead to a sound too warm ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hensa Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 That's good mate. You can bring the vino and cook the food then.[emoji3] It is time for another GTG though. Definitely the former. The latter, not so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Would work why not. It's not warm, it's transparency that toobs do well. The only issue I can think of would be hum. And feel free to sidetrack. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Thanks for the lead, and yes i love tubes. Without sidetracking this thread, here is Earles Artisan 300b. Would a tube phono pre work with a tube amp or would this lead to a sound too warm ? Nice amp! Would it work? Check my sig Granted I have a different amp and phono stage but both are tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Discussions of non-metallic chassis always bring to my mind DNM (UK) who have been doing this since the early 80's. Interesting marketing hype, For a mc output of 0.2mV you are going gong down gain that can be be impacted on thermal noise. At this level with no shielding it will be sensitive to most things around it. I remember in my hey day for vinyl and took the cover off for whatever reason, the SS mc phono stage was picking up the CB radio band frequency. At this level of gain requires a case made of copper to ensure that interference like this doesn't enter the chain, if not you will have to apply RF suppression to all the sensitive area, and like they say the more complex it gets, the worst it impacts on the final outcome. So sadly I'm not to sure why anyone would want a non metallic box for a phono stage apart being able to look at the internals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromelang Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 sadly, majority of people here still ignorant of the deleterious effect of metallic chassis on audio reproduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 sadly, majority of people here still ignorant of the deleterious effect of metallic chassis on audio reproduction. Sure, jm - but I would add "and ignorant of the deleterious effect of RFI on audio reproduction". Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Discussions of non-metallic chassis always bring to my mind DNM (UK) who have been doing this since the early 80's. I've worked on a few DNM systems. They are VERY sensitive to external interference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 And then there are ones like me, who won't even consider audio electronics if it's not in a metal case. Metal casing provides more benefits that overrides all the cons added up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts