First speaker/amp system - need help

[cduff1]

I've been using my computer for playing music for a while now, but I'm looking to move up from computer speakers to something that'll do a little more justice to the music.

I'll still be using the computer as the source, and will rely on my soundcard for the DAC for now (supposed to be a relatively decent one in the auzen prelude, but may look at getting a separate box for this in future and switching to spdif).

My budget for an integrated amp and a pair of bookshelf speakers is $1000 - $1500.

I listen to a lot of different music, but I suppose it would mostly fall between classical/vocal and various types of rock. Nothing needing really heavy bass.

The speakers I've been looking at, just from reviews, are the Usher S-520s which can be had for $575. Is there anything else around that price that I'd be better off considering though?

I have even less idea about amps, let alone how to match them to the speakers. I was thinking maybe the NAD 325/315 as they're apparently decent for headphones as well (not crucial but would be nice). Also maybe the Cambridge Azur 640A, but I really don't know. Is there even a significant difference between budget amps, or is it all much of a muchness at this price point?

I'm mostly going to go by recommendations/reviews, as I wouldn't rely too much on my ears at this point. Just want to get something solid, then can use that as a basis for finding something that might sound better to me personally when I'm ready to look at upgrading further down the track. So, any help would be much appreciated.

[4heckssake]

Welcome to SNA.

It sounds to me like you are approaching this in very sensible way. A nice soild budget and reliable choice of products on your list so far. I'm sure the others will chip in with suggestions.

Have you looked at some of the secondhand offerings available on here. You could save some dollars, get better gear and have some $ ready for a DAC purchase sooner.

Anyway enjoy the fun. Sorry about what is about to happen to you wallet.

[emesbee]

Yes, I'd have to agree with 4heckssake. It sounds like you are approaching things the right way. There certainly are differences between amps, even at the budget price point, but the two you mention are certainly worthy of consideration. They would be on my list. You could certainly do a lot worse in that price range.

I'm not familiar with the speakers you mention. I haven't really looked at bookshelf speakers myself, but what I would suggest is to make a list of speakers in your price range, and then spend some time having a listen to them.

As far as matching with a suitable amp is concerned, one thing to look at is the sensitivity rating of the speakers. A speaker with higher sensitivity will sound louder at a given amplifier volume setting than one with lower sensitivity, so can be driven more easily by a lower powered amp. It might be a consideration in that price range.

[4heckssake]

when I was looking in a similar price bracket (new and second-hand) for speakers about a year ago I found a few offerings from Quad, B & W, Wharfedale and a couple of others i forget now. ended up going for the ones that sounded nicest to me which in my case was the B & W 602 series 3.

when in one of the same shops lately i was stunned to see the prices on many had gone up considerably over the year...although i read somewhere Quads are on sale as new models are on the way. worth checking out.

[Drizt]

I picked up a set of Usher S520's for $475 from CAV in melb. Good price, and good performance for the price.

[bennos28]

i recently went down this path and may be able to offer few suggestions. i bought the amp you mention in the NAD c325BEE and love it. i cant comment on the headphone aspect however. this amp can be found for around $600 and a few hundred less 2nd hand. great sounding powerful amp.

i was using what was considered a great soundcard for pc music in the chaintech av-710, but like yourself wanted to get more and sought advice from the excellent people at coem audio who suggested super.DAC at less than $200. a huge step up from the soundcard.

as for speakers i havent heard too many bookshelves, however the paradigm atoms and titans have great reviews, and would fall in your price bracket(maybe not the titans) and definately combine really well the with NAD. Duratone is the official importer and have a listing on their website as do a place in victoria called penthometheatre.

hope this helps

[cduff1]

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm certainly open to buying second hand - had a look over the ads here but nothing's jumped out at me as yet (probably because I mostly don't know what I'm looking at). Will keep an eye on them over the next few days though, before making a decision.

B&Ws might be a little out of my range since the dollar dropped, otherwise may have been a good option. I checked out a special on Quads I saw linked to earlier, but it had already ended. D'oh.

Checked out the Atoms which might have been a good option too, but in the course of doing so I learned that I'd probably be best off going for 'forward-firing' speakers, as space constraints are going to have them pretty much up against a wall. Checked the Ushers again and they fit the bill there too, and look to have a decent sensitivity, so the amps I'm looking at should drive them fine. Had a look at CAV but they're $550 there now, plus whatever postage to perth would be (if they do that), so probably the $575 delivered from Wicked Digital will have to do, if I do get the Ushers. Don't seem to be available many places.

I might have to look more into DACs now... given me something to think about there, so thanks for that. If it's a big improvement for only a few hundred, I suppose the budget can be stretched (and thus it begins....)

[4heckssake]

I think Ushers were (and maybe still) stocked in Perth at Simply Hi-Fi?

[Poita]

Glad to see you are doing some good research before parting with your cash!

Both amps (NAD and Cambridge) are a good choice. I have the 640A V2 and am very pleased with it. It is powering 2 towers that are a hell of a lot bigger than a pair of bookshelf speakers. You could possibly even get the 540A as you won't need so much grunt for a pair of smaller speakers.

Another option for speakers:

http://www.adelaidespeakers.com

Firefox 622 and 822 would be good starting points. He is fully flexible and will edit any of his designs to suit your needs/wants/tastes.

My towers are from him and several of my friends have his towers/bookshelves. A few people on here have his speakers as well. All are extremely happy with them. Their reproduction of detail is superb. They sound as good as brand name speakers costing a lot more. They might not have the classy look of the brand name gear, but value for money you would be hard pushed to beat them.

And yes I would recommend upgrading to an external DAC in the future. The soundcard will be ok for now though. A bit at a time

[cduff1]

Well, jumped the gun a bit and went and got a 640A. Eastwood Hi-Fi had one in their 'scratch and dent' list for $590 which seemed worth grabbing. You're probably right that the 540 would have been more than sufficient, but this way it should see me through to a speaker upgrade further down the track.

Thanks for the link to adelaide speakers - found a couple of threads here and elsewhere about them that made for interesting reading. I think that what with being a newbie and all I'll stick to something a little more mainstream to start with, but I've got them bookmarked. I moved over here from SA, and would like to get back down there for a visit in a year or so, might be able to check them out then. If I've got my setup in a bigger room by then too some of those Ascensions might look tempting .

Now that I've ordered the amp I'm getting a bit of an itch to hurry up and order some speakers, so I'll probably just be lazy and go the Ushers. Will check out Simply Hi-Fi, would be good to be able to get them locally.

One thing I hadn't thought about until now... cabling. If I start with soundcard line out -> amp -> speakers what's everything I'll need to get going? Would I be able to get that sorted for under $100? Although I'm still looking at maybe getting a DAC (will have about $300 left in original budget, before cables), which I guess would need a bit of different cabling, so I should probably try and make my mind up there first....

[Rockman]

Be assured the extra power of the 640A will not be wasted !! And don't be led to believe that small speakers need less power than large speakers, indeed the opposite is generally the case.

In speaker design, more than any other component, there is no such thing as a free lunch & to get acceptable bass out of a small box, designers usually trade off efficiency. Most noteworty small speakers are notoriously insensitive - witness Ls3/5a, Linn Kans, Proac Tablette, Sonus Faber, ATC SCM10, etc, etc., whilst large speakers like Tannoy, Kef, JBL, Duntech, etc are a very easy load for even low powered valve amps.

There is one piece of advice i would like to pass on, & i'm assuming your setup is similar to mine where you are sitting very close to the speakers. When you audition different models be sure to listen to them at close quarters as most speakers sound very different near field than they do at the more normal lounge room distance. You will hear less bass up close for a start.

The small kefs with the dual concentric driver would be a good choice as they should have less balance anomalies up close, but there are others & the Ushers would certainly be on my list of possibilities. Also the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 is amazing value for money & you see them new on eBay for less than $300.

For cables, Jaycar & DSE, have a meter long mini phone jack to 2 RCA plugs cable pretty cheap & that's good enough for your PC soundcard to get you started. Some Silver Anniversary QED, you won't need much, would be a good choice to connect the speakers at this level, again good value.

Have fun !!

[frodo]

try the B&W 685's . i have these and love them !. i am using a NAD 325 BEE amp but i am sure they will sound great with your CA amp.

Even if they are a little above your budget - i am sure you will appreciate what they deliver

[frodo]

Oh. And I also highly recommend the QED silver anniversary speaker cable, they made a huge improvement

[Gabba]

Hi, I'm in a very similar situation to the OP. I'm looking at around the same budget for the mean time (also wishing to buy an external DAC late 2009). I was wondering how the 540a would sound with a pair of Orpheus Aurora 1's in my bedroom.

It is 3.5m (L), 2.5m (W), 3.4 (H) with hardwood floors, pretty bare walls, minimal furniture (most of my stuff is in the wardrobe), soon to be audio rack and my bed obviously.

I plan on getting out and auditioning some speakers (must be front-ported) and amps in January. Money is an issue as I'm only 18 and need a new job. I also am willing to look at second hand gear and I have also been researching all of this for a couple of months now. Oh, and I live in Melbourne.

Cheers, Gabba

[Qualitydb]

Hey,

This is my first post on here and i will not even pretend to know nearly as much as anyone on here. I know i love music though and appreciate good sound. I have just purchased myself a system comprising of NAD amp and monitor audio rs2's. I listened to a lot of speakers and absolutely loved these and the amp had plenty of power and was very crisp and clear. It cost more than 1500 but in looking at the system i got i also listened to some that may fit quite well for you.

Monitor Audio Bronze BR3 - these sound great and won best speaker in the price range in some stereo magazines. These are only about 600dollars.

NAD amp as you've stated, get the most powerful one you can afford but you'll be happy with either of those.

With reference to Cambridge audio amps - ive never heard a bad thing about them in terms of quality of sound etc. The store where i bought my gear supply cambridge and nad though and said NAD will outperform cambridge at the same price point (but they dont look as nice) but the big thing he said is that he was having a lot of trouble from them with after sale service. So that may be something to query on here and see if theres truth to the claim- its at least something to keep in mind.

Hope this helps a little,

At least audition some monitor audio, very nice sounding speaker

[A9X]

One thing I hadn't thought about until now... cabling. If I start with soundcard line out -> amp -> speakers what's everything I'll need to get going? Would I be able to get that sorted for under $100? Although I'm still looking at maybe getting a DAC (will have about $300 left in original budget, before cables), which I guess would need a bit of different cabling, so I should probably try and make my mind up there first....

The Cambridge gear seems good and the price was too.

Speakers have by far the largest sonic fingerprint than anything else in the chain, so try to get to as many stores as possible and listen to as much as you can so hopefully something will 'grab' you.

As for cables, they are massively over rated, so just use whatever is at hand.

For soundcard, I'm using a Squeezebox at the moment and like it. Got it for <$150 from sleazebay NIB.

[tricka]

I second A9X's post. Get to as many hi fi shops as you can and let your ears tell you what to buy. Ignore reviewers and most sales people: they speak with forked tongue. Be your own judge.

Speakers first, the rest follows. I second a SB3 esp - great source and you can upgrade with a DAC later if you feel so inclined. Cables - bah humbug at this point.

Don't think that more expensive = "better". Often a nice set of inexpensive bookshelves and an entry level SS amp will amaze. You sould get going for under $1200.

I would caution against buying second hand for your first system - much better to hear what you will be buying.

Cheers

tricka

[Guest m2catter]

Good day mate,

try and have a listen to Elac BS63, a little bit more expensive then Usher s-520, a bit larger but capable to play louder, without sacrifying quality.

They only come in two boring colours, black and brown. At this pice point to me the way to go, and should be fine with NAD. Quite punchy, airy and detailed. cheers and good luck,

[Chickenism]

G'day cduff,

Good going on the Cambridge amp. The 640 is well reviewed and said to be one of the big guns in the budget amp market right now. It should be good enough to upgrade around as well.

Regarding speakers, I see two choices for you. Firstly, the Ushers already mentioned. I can't comment on their sound, not having heard a pair, but at least two forum members have these (that I know of) and their past comments seem positive. That's a good thing...we're a tough crowd to please...

Second speaker suggestion (but my preference) would be the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1. These I have direct experience with and they're definitely all they're cracked up to be. Some loony audio reviewers have even run these on the end of megabuck setups and been very pleased with the results.

Having a more laid-back presentation, they should mate well with the slightly bright sounding (to my ears) CA amp, and they're not bothered by being placed against the wall if space is an issue.

I'd also suggest doing things incrementally...it's a bit of fun and educational to tweak a setup and hear differences (good or bad) along the way. Here's what I'd do:

1. Amp/speakers (single-wired) and standard soundcard first, use whatever cheapo cables you can find.

2. Next, an outboard DAC, using the same cheapo cables. Should be a big improvement.

3. Cable upgrade. Interconnect (DAC to amp) first, then later, speaker cable. You should notice a further improvement (or you may not).

4. Biwire the speakers. Contentious, but again, the potential exists for further sound quality gains.

Doing things one bit at a time allows your ears and components to settle in, and gives you the opportunity to learn what works for you and what doesn't. A grounding in these things helps later should you decide to get really serious about this stuff.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Dave:)

[SilverWolf]

Glad to see you are doing some good research before parting with your cash!

Both amps (NAD and Cambridge) are a good choice. I have the 640A V2 and am very pleased with it. It is powering 2 towers that are a hell of a lot bigger than a pair of bookshelf speakers. You could possibly even get the 540A as you won't need so much grunt for a pair of smaller speakers.

Another option for speakers:

http://www.adelaidespeakers.com

Firefox 622 and 822 would be good starting points. He is fully flexible and will edit any of his designs to suit your needs/wants/tastes.

My towers are from him and several of my friends have his towers/bookshelves. A few people on here have his speakers as well. All are extremely happy with them. Their reproduction of detail is superb. They sound as good as brand name speakers costing a lot more. They might not have the classy look of the brand name gear, but value for money you would be hard pushed to beat them.

And yes I would recommend upgrading to an external DAC in the future. The soundcard will be ok for now though. A bit at a time

+1 for Edwards speakers, I've just got a new set of speakers he made me and falling in love with sound all over again. He was more than happy to highly custom them to my wants/needs and I must say I'm in awe at the SQ & level of detail. I've not heard his bookshelf models but I would bet they are very good. For my taste I think his speakers are better looking than most others but thats a personal thing I guess.