Al.M Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) Since this post 3 years on we have diamond coated beryllium cone tweeters so what advantages do they have or is it oneupmanship marketing on the standard beryllium tweeter. Edited July 6, 2019 by Al.M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 13 hours ago, Phill said: I've heard Focal silk dome and their beryllium tweeters in the same design on very good equipment the metal dome superseded them. To my ear the metal domes are terrible in comparison, I had the option of either and went fo the silk dome, as a result my >120 Kg a side speakers used to just vanish something the metal domes didn't have the capacity do, they have a hot spot, you always know where they are. The silk also have an unconstrained airyness and are far more open immersive and unstrained. I couldn't stand listening to the metal dome for much time, they were fatiguing. Agree with you that metal domes don't disappear the same, my berylliums included. Also far harder to avoid fatigue but has been achievable for me (not in the same league as 120kg+ Focals) but maybe that's easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 7/07/2019 at 2:32 AM, Bunno77 said: Agree with you that metal domes don't disappear the same, my berylliums included. Also far harder to avoid fatigue but has been achievable for me (not in the same league as 120kg+ Focals) but maybe that's easier? My Focals have moved on to a new owner that's very happy with the result he's getting, meanwhile I wait for my order of open baffle design using eight inch AMT tweeters to arrive, hoping I haven't made a serious mistake, still concerned I won't get the utterly gorgeous top I'm used to, time will tell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOMO Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 One of the better tweeters I have used is the Infinity Polycell .Which appears to use some sort of styrofoam like material for the dome. I also think the Celestion HF2000 which is polycarbonate or mylar is a beautiful sounding tweeter.It is a key ingredient in why some of the great vintage speakers like Gale 401s and Celestion Ditton 66s sound so good. I have also heard bullet tweeters sounding excellent.Even the ancient ones circa 1963 in my Toshiba SS 30 speakers. The Usher diamond tweeters are also excellent when used in a three way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Maybe y'all need to listen to a Maggie (true) ribbon tweeter, to get a benchmark as to how a great tweeter sounds. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 I haven’t herd a better high frequency reproducer than the pure ribbon tweeters either. focal pure beryllium is also very good, but apart from that the pure ribbons rule. Gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloth Ears Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 On 06/07/2019 at 1:10 PM, Phill said: I've heard Focal silk dome and their beryllium tweeters in the same design on very good equipment the metal dome superseded them. To my ear the metal domes are terrible in comparison, I had the option of either and went fo the silk dome, as a result my >120 Kg a side speakers used to just vanish something the metal domes didn't have the capacity do, they have a hot spot, you always know where they are. The silk also have an unconstrained airyness and are far more open immersive and unstrained. I couldn't stand listening to the metal dome for much time, they were fatiguing. History - always seems to find you when you least expect it. Mind you, I prefer AMT tweeters. I've still yet to find something better than my Elac 510's to cover the 50-30k range (it might be 60Hz - I haven't checked the crossover recently). And I'm only worried about the 30K, as I'm guessing my ears' top-end is probably down to 15k by now. But the speakers themselves simply disappear (except physically) when I've got music or movies playing through them. I found soft domes a little lacking when my hearing was younger and I had the same issues with metal domes as you did. I loved the sound of Accuton when WAR came to town one time, but unless Mr Tattersalls comes to visit, I won't be going there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Ribbons are lovely but they're always romantic sounding to me. Nothing beats the accuracy of beryllium to me - just pure natural tones for everything from the clash of metal cymbals to delicate string top ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) The Accuton ceramic tweeters don’t do much for me, very tame and boring, that’s why WAR used Raven ribbons in their Ref 1 speaker. Recently heard Dynaudio Esotar D330 silk dome in 20 year old Sonus Faber Amator two way with proprietory heavily doped Scanspeak 18w/8545 woofer, incredible highs and beats a recent Magico Scanspeak beryllium I heard, incredibly detailed, natural and sweet. Edited July 18, 2019 by Al.M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryO Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Al.M said: The Accuton ceramic tweeters don’t do much for me, very tame and boring, that’s why WAR used Raven ribbons in their Ref 1 speaker. Recently heard Dynaudio Esotar D330 silk dome in 20 year old Sonus Faber Amator two way with proprietory heavily doped Scanspeak 18w/8445 woofer, incredible highs and beats a recent Magico Scanspeak beryllium I heard, incredibly detailed, natural and sweet. Agreed silk dome tweeters can sound incredibly detailed when done properly in the right set up and with mush less chance of listening fatigue, kind of defeats the main purpose of having metal domes when silk can match the metal versions perceived strength. cheers Terry Edited July 18, 2019 by TerryO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) A Scanspeak ring radiator R2904/7000 or 01 is extremely good a touch less sweet than an Esotar D330 and very detailed and accurate. Edited July 18, 2019 by Al.M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusk Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Al.M said: A Scanspeak ring radiator R2904/7000 or 01 is extremely good a touch less sweet than an Esotar D330 and very detailed and accurate. I've heard most SS tweeters Beryllium, Soft dome, Ring. Out of them all I prefer the non-ring radiator version R2904/71000 measures better off-axis than the others also. Edited July 19, 2019 by lusk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 On 18/07/2019 at 1:42 PM, Ittaku said: Ribbons are lovely but they're always romantic sounding to me. Nothing beats the accuracy of beryllium to me - just pure natural tones for everything from the clash of metal cymbals to delicate string top ends. There certainly not romantic in my magnapans 30.7s. They reveal everything in the high frequencies with amazing sound quality that no moveing coil tweeter can match. The ribbons in the 30.7s can sound romantic, but not always, they can sound crisp and clean like a beryllium tweeter. Gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 We could also be talking about differences that are due to synergy between amplification, crossovers, and tweeters. I use push pull class A valve amplification with passive crossovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Slack Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Yes, there are certainly other factors at work here, including the power of the mind to create a perception from a range of things other than just sound waves. It also crossed my mind that we are hearing a few over-the-top opinions about what sounds vastly better than what. Yes, some technologies should have inalienable advantages over others, but these advantages only materialise when perfectly implemented. That rarely is the case. So, in real life, "implementation is everything", and overrides differences in materials or technology. That is the reason why valves have survived, textile domes have survived, 'standard' paper cones have survived, elliptical stylii have survived, etc. Regards, Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthlaker Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Interesting video with Richard Vandersteen talking about different driver materials (start video at the 4 min 30 sec mark (8 min 01 sec remaining mark)): Video he refers to in the link above is below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 On 18/07/2019 at 1:32 PM, Cloth Ears said: History - always seems to find you when you least expect it. Mind you, I prefer AMT tweeters. I've still yet to find something better than my Elac 510's to cover the 50-30k range (it might be 60Hz - I haven't checked the crossover recently). And I'm only worried about the 30K, as I'm guessing my ears' top-end is probably down to 15k by now. But the speakers themselves simply disappear (except physically) when I've got music or movies playing through them. I found soft domes a little lacking when my hearing was younger and I had the same issues with metal domes as you did. I loved the sound of Accuton when WAR came to town one time, but unless Mr Tattersalls comes to visit, I won't be going there... A bit belated but. My recently H design open baffle speakers (one of four pairs in prototype) run Dayton Audio P4 Pro AMT's they are good but so far they don't compare with the silk dome Focals invisibility and air, they have a slight harshness/hardness in my opinion, in saying that the crossover design is still ongoing. I'm looking forward to closer to perfection as soon as this lock down is over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloth Ears Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, Phill said: A bit belated but. My recently H design open baffle speakers (one of four pairs in prototype) run Dayton Audio P4 Pro AMT's they are good but so far they don't compare with the silk dome Focals invisibility and air, they have a slight harshness/hardness in my opinion, in saying that the crossover design is still ongoing. I'm looking forward to closer to perfection as soon as this lock down is over... Mine are the standard JET tweeters in my Elacs, so I'd say that had the crossover worked out fairly well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) Since this post was created, I think we can now add the sound of stiffer to weight ratio Zylon material in the new Yamaha NS5000 superior to beryllium, coated diamond and others to add to the tweeter material arms race Zylon sounds as detailed as beryllium but sweeter vs the old Yamaha Ns1000 beryllium mid and tweeter driver speaker, subjectively. Edited September 3, 2020 by Al.M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 "During one of their first meetings, Oskar Heil surprised Klaus Heinz by telling him that it had actually been him who invented the dome back in the 1930s. “How was that possible? From everything I knew, Wolfgang Seikritt invented domes in the 1960s, and in Germany. Yet here was Oskar Heil who led me through the almost absurd process of his invention: “What I did,” he explained, “was that I took my mother’s silk stockings, then added a darning mushroom, drew the stocking over the mushroom, applied egg white as a thin coating, let it dry out, glued it to a voice coil – and there it was: the first dome tweeter made of wood, stockings, and eggs.”" I remember reading that Wolfgang Seikritt after coming up with the silk dome tweeter because of delivery shortages, bought a load of material for a silk tie manufacturer and used the material for the dome tweeters. I think he was with Braun or Heco at the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts