davewantsmoore Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 They wanted to make waves, and they used their own tech. To be clear, what I mean by this is that didn't want to wait for HDMI2 and/or other standards to be set (and also wanted to use bigger number in their standard) .... and so they used their own hardware. There's been a possibility mooted, that eventually they'll be able to do away with their own hardware, once SMTPE / UHD / HDMI standardise enough to enable the remapping. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 look forward to something referenced that supports that 2.0b is specifically required for dynamic meta data for HDR. Dynamic metadata is not in 2.0a. It will be utilised in 2.1 for the remapping which is (close to being) standardised in ST2094 .... and for any other remapping that devices want to do. ... but it's really the content timeline which makes that useful, and that looks like 2019. 2014 = ST2048 std adopted 2015 = ST2048 in products 2016 = HLG std adopted 2017 = HLG in products 2018 = ST2094 and ITP colour std adopted 2019 = used in products ... but really the reason why "wait for 2.0b" was brought up (in the context of device incompatibility) was due to high resolutions and rates (50/60+) which are better standardised. Essentially I was just trying to propose way which consumers can try and duck some of the current issues (ie. wait for 2.0b [or 2.1 next year], and use a premium certified cable) Sorry. Still looking for a detailed explanation of the metadata changes included in 2.0b. (I don't have the detailed docs for B - I think I'll have to find someone who'll provide them on the sly). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 the thing to keep in mind with hdmi its a continually evolving thing. and so it will keep changing. just as someone back in the day with a denon machine finding it wouldn't pass dvd a over hdmi v1.0 and it needed update... to v1.1 and then someone even wiht a v1.1 machine finding they needed 1.2 to pass sacd over dsd. its continually going to evolve. what ever bugs we have now with the mine field people are negotiating now am sure, there'll be some different mine field in 3 years time ... will it suck then as sucks now ...one can only hope not ! though I wouldn't bet on it ps re hdmi v2.0b any info from hdmi org has shown to understand specifically about a release e.g. if looking for info on 2.0b you actually need 2.0 and 2.0a info as well as need to cross reference to actually know what is specific to the release.but yeah it remains a little bit of a mine field and some will indeed at present and likely in the future find it to suck ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Some voices within the industry .... cynically imply that these types of things are done on purpose to keep people buying new devices. I'm sure manufacturers love people buying new devices ..... but at the start of a new long-term standard (UHD), there's a period where we know what we will want/need for the next decade or two, aren't yet quite ready for prime time ..... and so early adopters can get a bit burnt, when manufacturers get ahead of the standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 there is absolutely no doubt oems are always looking for the next best thing to turn over the tills at the retailers by getting people changing over their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 This is very good article setting out details of where and when the gap between 10.2 and 18gbps capable equipment matters. http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 http://www.avsforum.com/hdr-calibration-evaluation-seminar-ce-week-2016/ At CE Week 2016, a one-hour clinic on HDR calibration and evaluation was held by Samsung for the press and AV pros in attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 http://www.avsforum.com/calibrating-hdr-part-2/?utm_content=more1 In this episode, I continue my discussion with Florian Friedrich about high dynamic range and wide color gamut, including a recap of the fundamentals of HDR and WCG, the importance of a bias light, the importance of metadata, problems with BT.2020 color primaries, the “golden reference†for consumer TVs in SpectraCal’s CalMan software and why Florian thinks it’s not the best approach for calibrating consumer TVs, static versus dynamic metadata, Florian’s SEIEdit software and free sample video, answers to chat-room questions, and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 http://www.avsforum.com/hdr-calibration-evaluation-seminar-ce-week-2016/ At CE Week 2016, a one-hour clinic on HDR calibration and evaluation was held by Samsung for the press and AV pros in attendance. not really to do with "hdmi sucks" but just for your info we are getting great results with HDR setup utilising the test patterns provided in sony uhd blu-ray discs, something have documented myself in my jvc redux thread. quite a few have been looking out for the samsung info however their test patterns and discs used have not been made available to general public as yet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 It explains many of the issues that were being discussed earlier in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 It explains many of the issues that were being discussed earlier in the thread. I've watched it already. i am not sure if you have had the opportunity to watch a display with HDR setup for uhd blu-ray if havent id heartedly encourage to do so. it is nothing short of stunning the picture achieved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 "Well I can add to this thread! Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI FAIL! Have 4 10ft ones and 3 15ft ones and not a single one will pass 18Gbps. Monoprice Luxe does pass though. I tired the 25ft version and it works fine. I still need a passive 15ft wire that will pass 18Gbps, gonna try amazon basics next" well the end user comment above is rather scary, with the high hopes I think most have had for hdmi certified.... it seems that even is no guarantee... I asked for context as that in my experience so far seems as important as cable in itself - turns out this is wiht a htpc feeding through signal rather than uhd blu-ray. I have been lucky so far my kordz prs still is faultless and there have been close to 25 or so UHD blu-rays gone through feeding 4k uhd through so far...will keep fingers crossed the luck remains. as an aside, mono price is for some reason turning out to be quite a source of disappointment for many as well. with the hit and miss nature of their cables, some failing some even not performing when sent as a review sample. they have always had a good rep for good honest cables so dissaponting to read the issue after issue people seem to be having with reliability of their cables. I do wonder if this failure being reported is due to reliability again or perhaps a base design issue. ore really related to context which I suspect as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Kazz Posted October 28, 2016 Volunteer Share Posted October 28, 2016 1 hour ago, al said: I have been lucky so far my kordz prs still is faultless and there have been close to 25 or so UHD blu-rays gone through feeding 4k uhd through so far...will keep fingers crossed the luck remains. My Kordz PRS has been faultless so far as well, definitely worth the dollars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 <<<<<<<<THREAD UPDATE>>>>>>>> have updated the original post, latest testing ... round 2 from David Vaughn - Courtesy of Sound and Vision magazine, http://www.soundandvision.com/content/uhd-blu-ray-vs-hdmi-–-pt-2-which-cables-can-actually-pass-hdmi-20#goOHOeY1Pjeqy3KP.97 good to see some cheap options there ! that do indeed pass in the long cable category, and also the ones that dont ! oh and incase wondering none of this has changed Dave Vaughn's opinion that Hdmi Sucks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted December 17, 2016 Author Share Posted December 17, 2016 in recent times with fun its the new oppo uhd player, the below table am finding a really useful one. also reminder its not actually real material pushing things to limit eg uhd blu-ray like blu-ray is in the 4:2:0 color space and at best 13.4 Gbps which most cables down have a problem with...however makers ae still doing their best with stupid things like main menus putting them in 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 color space to push close to the limit i.e. maxing out to 17.8 Gbps which is getting people into trouble cable wise as of yet we are still to have a premium certified hdmi cable beyond 7m but are still options to get by, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 well hdmi has finally.... updated the hdmi spec... now for v2.1 so yeah ole 2.0b just by the wayside...and skipped over ... http://www.soundandvision.com/content/hdmi-forum-announces-version-21-spec#sMdrgfA850r2iQPb.97 and finally ! the cable spec... for 48Gbps yes 48gbps I hope they get there given current supposed cables that are meant to do 18gbps cant do it ! and 10k yeesh ?... these guys are on drugs ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 On 1/5/2017 at 3:10 PM, al said: and 10k yeesh ?... these guys are on drugs ! Do you mean 8K? Edit: Hmmm... Interesting. If so, it was always the end-game for UHD (Like 1080 lines was for HD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Thankfully dynamic HDR and eARC will work up to 4K with lower bandwidth (lower than 18gbps depending on colour space). I wonder whether by the time 2.1 is being adopted (2018) whether wireless will be more popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukynas Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 why the hell we need 18Gbps connection? even 10Gbps? there's no other way how to transfer 4K content over standard/existing cables or air in the future? how these big guys expecting more people jumping on the 4K content if not everyone's willing to invest into UHD players and changing discs especially if streaming is more and more popular? did they ever heard about codecs such as HEVC? more processing power is necessary to cope with codecs but is it problem these days when we have 8 core processors in our phones? I hate anacondas hanging on the wall between TV and cabinet, 20 remote controls on the table to be able to operate simple tasks like playing movie in my TV... sorry for my Friday's moaning but hdmi sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 11 hours ago, kukynas said: HEVC It's lossy. That isn't appropriate for HDMI. 42gbps is the unfortunate reality of what is required for the specs of HDMI in future (8K+ 16bit colour, 120hz refrshes) .... wireless standards already exist which can transmit this (60gbps). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 16 hours ago, kukynas said: why the hell we need 18Gbps connection? even 10Gbps? there's no other way how to transfer 4K content over standard/existing cables or air in the future? how these big guys expecting more people jumping on the 4K content if not everyone's willing to invest into UHD players and changing discs especially if streaming is more and more popular? did they ever heard about codecs such as HEVC? more processing power is necessary to cope with codecs but is it problem these days when we have 8 core processors in our phones? I hate anacondas hanging on the wall between TV and cabinet, 20 remote controls on the table to be able to operate simple tasks like playing movie in my TV... sorry for my Friday's moaning but hdmi sucks as it happens epson do provide a wireless hdmi for 4k uhd... it is however not 18gbps and the projector even though being uhd doesnt have a 18 Gbps chipset. however that is not required for uhd blu-ray and hence why they get away with it. obviously this is all absolutely meaningless if we are talking hdmi v2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukynas Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 On ?1?/?13?/?2017 at 3:05 PM, kukynas said: especially if streaming is more and more popular? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-30/sony-says-it-will-take-1-billion-writedown-on-movie-business “The decline in the DVD and Blue-ray market was faster than we anticipated,” Takashi Iida, a Sony spokesman said by phone. maybe first of big guys start realize impact for the future? not directly linked with capabilities of HDMI connection but once we got enough powerful TVs/projectors and their connection to online movie content there won't be any need for cables and their standards, I believe this will happen in the near future...and I think future trend is given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 On 1/14/2017 at 5:27 PM, al said: obviously this is all absolutely meaningless if we are talking hdmi v2.0 Wireless HDMI v2.0 products have been out since 2013. (sorry if I've misunderstood something) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukynas Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) On ?1?/?14?/?2017 at 2:11 AM, davewantsmoore said: It's lossy. That isn't appropriate for HDMI. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_HD_Blu-ray again, why do we need 10Gbps cable if standard 4K UHD BD bitrate is 128Mbps can you imagine optical drive reading speed of 10Gbps? , can you imagine any drive reading 10Gbps? even the standard SSD disk won't read faster than 3-4Gbps... Edited February 13, 2017 by kukynas edited speed of SSD disk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukynas Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 current distribution format/codec of 4K UHD BD is HEVC with up to 128Mbps, uncompressed via BD player to raw 4K 10/14bit signal which has aprox 2-3Gbps at 25fps or 5-6Gbps at 60fps + audio and additional data. it goes back to my initial question, if we are done (and I believe pretty soon) with physical disks and media why do we need HDMI cable with such high bandwidth if we just exchange BD player HW with our current TVs capable of unpacking and streaming same format/codec as today's physical disks. It's seems to me like HDMI association keeps producing new standards for dead technology...and I don't see (in the near future) wifi capability of +10Gbps for wider range of audience so I believe codecs will stay with us for little bit longer and now shut up Daniel you said enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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