TSA Tube Sound Audio Issues

[Sned]

Hi all

Just a bit of a warning about a guy in the Blue Mountains going by the name of Tube Sound Audio. He sells himself as being very high quality.

I went to his "Amp Camp" to build his SP14. Please don't get me wrong, he did alot of things correct, but there are a couple of major issues I would like people to be aware of.

Firstly his quality control. The whole reason I went to his amp camp was for the finish which i explained to him before hand. I could have ordered the VTA SP14 kit from the US which would have been a lot cheaper but not the timber finish.  I'm a licenced electrician by trade and Senior Electrical Site Engineer for a large company.

As you can see below, the laser etching for the volume pots don't line up by a fair bit. Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to finish the pre amp and this wasn't obvious until it was posted to me after the camp and the knobs were attached. His time estimation of 1 day was a bit lean.

 

 

A quote from an email.

"In the case of your SP14 this also included dual handmade mono stepped ladder attenuators constructed on beautiful Japanese switches using very fine tolerance resistors." was part of a baffle with bull email he sent rather than ring me. The attenuators are using fine tolerance resistors, BUT he decided to use Jaycar resistors (the packet was still sitting on the bench) to modify the attenuators characteristics. Will have to work out what he has done now.

 

 

My biggest concern though is the electrical safety side of things. There is no bottom attached to the chassis, leaving 240V AC supply and the stepped up side of the transformer exposed, which i haven't checked the voltage yet. When asked about the IP2X of the chassis he cut me off on the phone and hung up. There is a high potential to kill someone. Even if you have RCD's there are a lot situations where they won't protect you.

 

 

I have asked him on the phone and in writing about the safety of the preamp which he blatantly avoided.

 

And to show his attitude towards his customers he signed off his email as following.

 

"Perhaps you are suffering what is commonly referred to as buyer’s remorse?  I suggest you prescribe yourself a bunch of therapeutic listening time and remind yourself of what a fine amp you’ve made. 

 

Cheer up!"

Got to love condescending.

 

I don't believe he has any electrical qualifications at all. He has no understanding of the Australian Electrical Standards or Certification for electrical equipment but the NSW department of fair trading. IMHO he is woodworker who can put together amp kits from the US.

 

As he is the OEM I have requested a copy of the Certificate of suitability from the NSW Department of Fair Trading for the preamp. This should be interesting.

 

For your safety, please DO NOT go to Amp Camp. I believe he preys on people who have no idea about electrical equipment and likes to use BIG fluffy audio jargon.

 

Buy the kit from VTA. At least you know the chassis is complete and you get support from them. 

 

[wartman]

Thanks for the information.

Have considered doing this if I ever got the time.

Might just buy the kit as advised.

 

Cheers

[dwbasement]

I had issues with TSA too but with other stuff they are selling, won't go back again for sure.

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

[Sned]

Just a bit of a laugh.

To sort the issue of the laser etching not lining up he has offered me his 12 month old preamp as a replacement for my brand new preamp. Ironically, this one doesn't have laser etching and also doesn't comply with Australian standards.

I have also been offered a refund which I think I'll take. I have tried to sort out the issues, but when asking basic design questions about how he intended to enclose the under side with out cooking it he got upset and proceded to lecture me about the heat generated by the tubes. Concern was the components underneath.

Anyways, pretty disappointed.

[Sub Sonic]

That's just plain lethal. There is certainly enough room to fit the standard test finger anywhere in the chassis.

[Sned]

Hey all, bit of a follow up on Tube Sound Audio 

So in a back flip he has decided that my preamp does comply with Australian Standards even though there is no protection from direct contact underneath. He was even clever enough to put this on a company letter head to the NSW Depeartment of Fair Trading.
Let's be perfectly honest, there is no way exposed terminals will ever comply. This is one of the very basic levels of electrical protection. Ensuring that there is no chance of direct contact with live terminals.
Ironically he has offered to fit a cover to the bottom of the preamp as a "gesture of good faith". The timber cover would enclose the 2 large heat sinks. With this fitted there would be absolutely no air flow and eventually the components would be destroyed. 
Let's face it, heat isn't a magical entity that just disappears.

This is an extremely dangerous attitude to electrical equipment, especially due to the fact it is aimed at people who don't have electrical/electronics experience.

To top it off I was told I was in his workshop for 8 hours apparently i had ample opportunity to assess appropriateness of materials. So from this am I to engineer my own amplifier? Lets be honest, I didn't finish the amplifier in 8 hours and was completed by TSA. Whereabouts does TSA take responsibility for there poor actions?
Just to add to the irony, TSA had the preamp for another 3 days before dispatch. In this time he couldn't even make the attenuation pots line up to the laser etching.    
It also makes me wonder what else he missed in the final check over. 

In this episode with TSA I have been accused of 
Making threats but when i asked what the threats were I didn't get a response
I have been threatened with legal action for posting my "experience" with TSA

The Managing Director has no electrical qualifications and this is evident in the design of this preamp enclosure. 

Again I emphasise my initial warning about TSA. 

I would like to finish with what I believe sums up the after sales service you receive from TSA

"Perhaps you are suffering what is commonly referred to as buyer’s remorse? I suggest you prescribe yourself a bunch of therapeutic listening time and remind yourself of what a fine amp you’ve made. "

Edited July 5, 2016 by Sned

[Sned]

That's just plain lethal. There is certainly enough room to fit the standard test finger anywhere in the chassis.

LOL. You could lose the test finger in there.

[Sned]

As a follow on, if you have built electrical equipment with TSA and you don't feel that it is safe, it would be worth reporting this to the NSW Department of Fair Trading. The potential for someone to get fatally hurt is very high with this type of electrical equipment if it isn't compliant with Australian Standards.

Think about any time you have been to a reputable electrical/electronics retailer. When have you ever seen internal wiring on a piece of equipment, no matter which way you turn it. You should require a tool to get access.

[matt200sr]

I'm surprised everything is on a PCB.

 

What's to build?

 

I guess I assumed everything would be point to point. Thus giving the builder a greater insight into how the circuit works. 

[tesla13BMW]

I can highly recommend VTA - being Vacuum Tube Audio or tubes4hifi.  I built the PH16 and it is a wonderful amp and the kit was great.  Instructions were very good.

 

But as you say you either get there steel chassis or have to do your own.

 

I did my own in a "audio research" type 18" rack with the handles on the front.

 

Roy Mottram communicated effectively via e mail and gave useful advice.

 

Gland I didn't go to amp camp!

[Sned]

I can highly recommend VTA - being Vacuum Tube Audio or tubes4hifi.  I built the PH16 and it is a wonderful amp and the kit was great.  Instructions were very good.

 

But as you say you either get there steel chassis or have to do your own.

 

I did my own in a "audio research" type 18" rack with the handles on the front.

 

Roy Mottram communicated effectively via e mail and gave useful advice.

 

Gland I didn't go to amp camp!

Tesla

I actually contacted Roy as it is a VTA Preamp. He was really helpful, sent me through all the schematics and answered all my questions. I didn't buy the preamp directly from him so it was really appreciated.

[tesla13BMW]

@Sned  I think Roy is very proud of his product and may like to know what may be occurring to product he is supplying to someone, particularly if it is made known of its origin!

[Equaliser]

Actually there are a lot of C, A tick and worldwide CE approved tube amps and tube amp kits out there that don`t have bottom covers for the sole purpose of better heat dispitation. The one problem with that kit you`ve built is a lack of a true ground to it being a full wooden enclosure.

[TeslaPardubice]

I am reading all those comments and than it striked me. You guys are either a bunch of snobs that pretend to love  HIFI music or you have forgotten what it is to be custom radio or HIFI builder. It supposed to be imperfect. It supposed to be unique. It supposed to be different. If you LOVE IT there is nothing to solve. Enjoy journey of discovery and if you want “perfection not” buy BOSSE and call friends drinking champaign. In a meant time I am going to listen to my own “inperfect” valves and even more “inperfect” NiRvana speakers in even more “inperfect” room. Total perfection when it comes to time spending. 

[tesla13BMW]

@TeslaPardubice I am neither a snob or forgotten.

 

The amp in question must be legal and fit for purpose and one would expect up to a certain level of quality.  One can see this was not the case and the company had a reluctance to rectify this.

 

Can't see why you have made the comments you have - perhaps your custom radio or HIFI builds are of a similar standard and you see no issue with this? 

[audiofeline]

I had a look at the website, http://www.tubesoundaudio.com.au/ampcamp.asp

He has a "as reviewed in StereoNet.au" graphic on his amp camp advert.

  @Marc  - In the light of this discussion, I wanted to bring it to your attention in case his use of the StereoNet brand is inappropriate.

[Marc]

Thanks @audiofeline - it's referring to https://www.stereo.net.au/features/amp-camp-australia-build-your-own-tube-amplifier

Which, technically, I guess is an overview of the concept rather than a review of the product or attending the camp.

It's an OLD logo too - what were we thinking?

[Sned]

8 hours ago, TeslaPardubice said:

I am reading all those comments and than it striked me. You guys are either a bunch of snobs that pretend to love  HIFI music or you have forgotten what it is to be custom radio or HIFI builder. It supposed to be imperfect. It supposed to be unique. It supposed to be different. If you LOVE IT there is nothing to solve. Enjoy journey of discovery and if you want “perfection not” buy BOSSE and call friends drinking champaign. In a meant time I am going to listen to my own “inperfect” valves and even more “inperfect” NiRvana speakers in even more “inperfect” room. Total perfection when it comes to time spending. 

It's funny how you turn up and stand in defence of TSA. Very similar to when I was verbally attacked by someone with a vested interest in TSA on another audio forum. Took the advice of using a proxy?

 

Steven from TSA was arrogant enough to send an email to the NSW Department of fair trading stating that the amp complied with all applicable Australian standards.

 

One of the basics of electrical standards is the protection against direct contact. Unless he put a magical coating on the amp to stop direct contact.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Sned
Pressed post too soon