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QuinnInSydney

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Posts posted by QuinnInSydney

  1. I've just dropped the asking price on these, as it turns out our renovation is happening sooner than I expected and I'd like to clear as much space as possible in our living room.

     

    I'm also open to offers, and as mentioned above also open to selling them separately. Please PM me (but please keep the offers reasonable). If these don't sell soon here, I may resort to putting them up on that nasty red / blue / yellow / green auction site.... :( 

     

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  2. Item Condition: As New
    Shipping Options: Pickup available but audition is not available.
    Suburb or Town: Sydney
    State: NSW
    Payment Method: EFT, Paypal, Cash on Pickup/Delivery
    Reason for selling: No longer fit requirements

    Further information:

    I bought these Yamaha MusicCast NS-NSW100 subs in November last year, so they're only 5 months old and in as-new condition. There's also the majority of the 2 year warranty left on them. (I'll even include the original boxes and they're in great shape too!)

     

    With their small size, they physically fit into my living room setup perfectly. And using my KEF LSX's built-in subwoofer controls they integrated into my listening experience really well. At my moderate listening levels, bottom-end on all genres of music was filled in, giving feeling to kick drums, jazz bass, and electronic beats. Movie thuds and explosions were also felt, but they definitely didn't have the impact that would be had with bigger, more powerful subs. For reference, at my main listening position, these Yamaha subs produced clean-sounding test tones of 25hz at ~80db and 30hz at ~90db (with room gain, and measured on my crappy phone app and mic so YMMV). 

     

    WARNING #1: these subs do not have any controls on them other than a gain knob, nor any input options other than a 3.5mm mini plug. No phase control, no crossover adjustment, nothing. And to be honest, I do not think these subs' performance and specs are worth the Yamaha RRP. But at my asking price, these are a good choice if you want clean bass at moderate listening levels and:

    - You have a receiver or some other system with subwoofer control and adjustment tools, or

    - Most definitely if you're bought in to the Yamaha MusicCast system and can take advantage of the subs' wireless capabilities, and can control the subs from the app

     

    WARNING #2: the gloss piano black finish on these subs look great, but they show every fleck of dust and attract fingerprints even from just walking by them. People with OCD might want to stay away ;)

     

    I'm also happy to split these up and sell the Yamaha MusicCast subs individually, but ask that you pay a little extra over splitting the cost. Please PM me if you want to make an offer.

     

    Aside from pickup, I'm happy to deliver these personally within a ~20km radius of Sydney CBD. (But you'll have to wait til the weekend for me to find time to do it.)

     

    Wi-Fi    Yes (2.4 / 5 GHz)

    MusicCast Surround, Stereo    Yes

    Analog Audio Input      1 (3.5 mm Stereo mini)

    Ethernet           Yes

    Driver   20 cm (8”) cone

    Output Power  130 W (5 ohms, 100 kHz, 10% THD)

    Frequency Response  28–300 Hz

    Advanced YST Yes

    Twisted Flare Port       Yes

    Auto Standby   Yes

    Dimensions (W x H x D)           252 x 373 x 418 mm; 9-7/8” x 14-5/8” x 16-1/2”

    Weight 12.5 kg; 27.6 lbs.


    Photos:

     

     

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    • Like 2
  3. Item Condition: Fair (works great, serious physical defects)
    Shipping Options: Pickup available but audition is not available.
    Suburb or Town: Sydney
    State: NSW
    Payment Method: Cash on Pickup/Delivery, Paypal, EFT
    Reason for selling: Time to move on...

    Further information:

    I rescued these from a gentlemen using them in his semi-outdoor space a couple years ago. They've been pampered, and worked and sounded great, in my setup since then. Despite that, they definitely show signs of a hard former life...

     

    THE GOOD

    - Sound fantastic, just as long as you leave the volume knob alone

    - Look great from afar, as the high gloss bamboo finish is pretty unique and in great shape

     

    THE BAD

    - Turning the volume knob emits a static-y hiss noise from the speakers (that stops immediately once the knob stops being turned)

    - I had these connected to my computer and controlled output volume from there, so this was never a problem for me

     

    THE UGLY

    - Visible discolouration on the rubber surrounds of the mid/bass drivers (see photo)

    - Visible corrosion on the metal plate on the back of the main speaker (see photo)

    - Foam rubber pad on the bottom of the speakers has some bits eroded off (see photo)

     

    Aside from pickup, I am happy to personally deliver these myself within a ~20km radius of Sydney CBD. (You might just have to give me a couple days to find the time...)

     

    Please note these are the original A5 version released in 2008 (not the A5+ version released a few years later), so they do not have built-in bluetooth, wireless, etc.


    Photos:

     

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    • Like 1
  4. How goes the search, Tom?

     

    If you haven't made any progress, I recommend going to a place like Store DJ (depends on where you're located) and getting their friendly staff to demo some active studio monitors for you. In my own experience I've found active desktop speakers used by pro musicians and engineers to be a good step up from the "all in one" systems you've been listening to.

     

    Some examples that I've enjoyed listening to, and in your general price range: ADAM Audio T series, JBL LSR series, and Eve Audio SC series. I mention "series" because they all come in various sizes to suit your need (and budget). The best part is that there are subwoofers within those product lines so it shouldn't be a problem finding one that matches.

     

    Aside from pro studio monitors, there are some consumer-oriented active speakers that I can think of. I've had a pair of Audioengine A5's and rate them very highly. You could add their S8 subwoofer and squeak in under your $1k budget. I haven't had any experience, but Kanto have very similar offerings and I've read good things about them. What I run now are a pair of KEF LSX's, which go beyond your budget, but you may find worthwhile. (I did!) Again, the best place to start is to go to a hi fi store to get some guidance and some listening experience with the options available to you.

     

    Good luck with your search, and please keep us up to date with how things go for you 🙂

    • Like 1
  5. Our first Christmas in the new place, and the decorations are just like the Hi Fi unit: humble, discreet, and just the beginning...

     

    I'd love to see the Christmas decorations of everybody here, and how their AV equipment gets incorporated (if at all). I'll show you mine if you show me yours! 🙂

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    Yes, that's Rudolph hogging up the primary listening position. That selfish b$@#!

     

    What you're looking at: Windows PC music / video streamer > KEF LSX > Yamaha Musiccast 100 woofers (Yamaha calls them "subwoofers" but nope, they're more suited for bass, not ultra-low bass)... Like I said, humble and a beginning 🙂 By this time next year I'll hopefully have introduced some MiniDSP active crossover action, and a real subwoofer (or two).

     

    Merry Christmas everyone! 🎄

    • Like 1
  6. Summary, and statement of the expectedly obvious: The KEF LSXs, which are more than double the cost, are a much better pair of self-powered speakers than the Audioengines A5s... And ultimately I'm keeping the KEFs as my main listening partners.

     

    What I didn't expect was how my listening context - my listening intentions, positioning, and habits - get in the way. Yes the KEFs are more capable, but they require more attention and effort from me to really appreciate their technical advantages.

     

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    Being older (not the '+' version) and a second-hand purchase with some visible wear-and-tear, the A5s are at an immediate disadvantage. With that in mind, my listening notes on the Audioengines:

    - Sound immediately impressive, takes little effort to enjoy

    - Very 'pleasant' with no harshness to the treble at moderate listening levels (they get shrill at higher levels)

    - Sound 'bigger' with full-bodied bass that almost gets into the can-be-felt zone, which makes sense as they are bigger boxes compared to the KEFs

    - Actually, all the details in the music (the breath in singers' voices, details in the instruments, etc) sound 'big' on the Audioengines... But this isn't a good thing because they all sound the same size. It's almost as if they have some built-in dynamic range compression?

    - To fit in my living room the speakers are placed quite far apart, and they struggle to combine for a single, stereo image (I had to toe them in quite drastically to get them to combine)

    - The last two points lead to a soundstage that is fairly wide, but is also flat and feels like a two-dimensional wall of sound projected right in front of me

     

    image.png.15d81234049fee19dc7f1e1cbc44e10b.png

    The LSXs were a new (but thankfully discounted!) purchase, bought with the intention of replacing the older speakers. My listening notes on the KEFs show it wasn't an easy, slam-dunk decision:

    - Out-of-the-box sound is clinical bordering on harsh, with treble that is too bright for my concrete and glass living room... But this was tamed with some EQ (either from my music source or built-in to the KEFs via their Control app)

    - Bass is neither as full nor as extended as the Audioengines, belying the LSX's smaller size

    - (In the end I've connected a pair of woofer / subwoofers into my living room setup so the Audioengines' bass advantages are moot for me)

    - The subtleties of singers' voices and instruments sound less boxy, more throaty and airy

    - Soundstage is where the KEFs really separate themselves from the Audioengines

    - The LSXs have no trouble 'bridging' the large distance separating the two individual speakers

    - Moreover there is much, MUCH more dynamic range... Voices and foreground instruments sound closer to me, and background instruments are delicately placed behind at different distances... Overall a much more three-dimensional presentation from the KEFs (as opposed to the two-dimensional wall projected by the Audioengines)

     

    A very tangible example of the difference between the KEFs and the Audioengines comes from listening to the Diana Krall and Michael Buble duet on 'Alone Again'. (Forgive me, I'm originally from Canadia and have to plug my hometown crooners!) Three minutes into it there are some high-pitched string instruments that come in behind the duet's voices. On the AudioEngines, the strings are a bit more prominent, a bit more binary in that they're there then they're not. Whereas on the KEFs the strings are a bit quieter and can be easily missed. But when I do catch them, I notice they float a little more off in the distance and the way they trail on and trail off gives them an enjoyable, 'shimmering' feel...

     

    ... So why didn't I immediately choose the KEFs over the Audioengines? The answer lies in my first listening note for the Audioengines: they take less effort to enjoy. Over a week, I'll have music on in my living room for approx 30 hours. But for 29 out of those 30 hours I'm doing other things, like lying on the couch reading or working on my laptop, standing in the open plan kitchen preparing a meal, crouching on the floor stretching before a run, etc. Do all the KEFs subtleties and depth of soundstage matter when I'm doing all that? Nope. In fact that two-dimensional wall of range-compressed sound projected by the Audioengines makes it easier to catch every note - and are therefore more enjoyable - when I'm distracted with things other than the music. In other words, I'm a chronic multi-tasker and the Audioengines are a more suitable companion for the majority of my listening habits.

     

    But what about that 1 out of 30 hours a week where I am truly listening to the music? That's when I have the time to tweak and take advantage of the KEFs technical advantages, the attention span to catch all the details in the music, and the mindfulness to be conscious of all the subtleties in soundstage. That 1 hour a week is when the KEF LSXs truly, erm... sing!

     

    And it's for that 1 hour a week I'm choosing the KEFs over the AudioEngines. Am I hopeless or what...? 😋

    • Like 3
  7. On 01/12/2020 at 2:07 PM, akjono said:

    Just recently I was in a rural newsagency shop and some music was playing at low volume. After about a minute I could recognize notes in the music but not the song (99% chance it is middle of the road Rock from some era). It was really bugging me. Then I could catch a little guitar phrasing here and there that was familiar, but still nothing clear came to mind. Then I noticed that the "music" was missing the Bass to mid-mids. Like 1000hz and up only!... Finally the light bulb went on = it was "Layla" with Eric Clapton.

     

    Great story, @akjono It inspired me to run a little test...

     

    I filtered out (-30db) all frequencies below 1000Hz, and set Spotify to shuffle play from a random playlist. Then for the heck of it I tried the same but filtered out all the results _above_ 1000Hz.

     

    My completely non-scientific experiment yielded the following learning:

    - Songs that were bass- and mids-only were easier (quicker) for me to recognise, when compared to mids- and treble-only songs

    - Listening to the mids- and treble-only songs felt like an intellectual exercise (I was straining to recognise lyrics and such)

    - Listening to bass- and mids-only songs felt like a physical exercise (my feet were tapping and my head was bobbing)

     

    What does all that tell us? Absolutely nothing, I think... but it was a helluva way to spend 20 minutes 😜

     

    • Like 2
  8. 28 minutes ago, Whites said:

    I have noticed as I upgraded speakers that initially the bass seemed less, but in actual fact it was better defined. When listening to well recorded music you would actually hear differences in drums etc.

    That's my takeaway from the study. It seems that our brains are wired to pick up differences in bass tones (eg drums) more easily than differences in other, higher frequencies.

     

    I most definitely am not proposing other tones are less important. It just seems we have to work harder to appreciate them... which might actually mean they're MORE important. Because those of us listening to the higher-pitched frequencies are paying more attention and there to appreciate the quality :)

    • Like 1
  9. 33 minutes ago, eman said:

    Deep bass might be 'impressive' but overblown or non rhythmic is just bloody torture, in the real meaning of the word.

    Red Square, I completely agree. I am huge proponent of GOOD bass over MORE bass. Accurate, well-paced, nuanced bass always wins over 'boom' for me.

     

    Forgive my cheeky title to this thread - I'm fascinated there seems to be a physiological reason why most people (including myself) seem to have a more instantaneous, primal reaction to bass before they start to pay attention to all other frequencies in the spectrum.

    • Like 3
  10.  

    I came across this article and study today: Here's Why People Love Deep Bass Sounds In Music. I normally don't cite Huffington Post as a reliable source of information, but theirs is a much more readable summary of this original study from McMaster Institute

     

    TL;DR rhythm in music is typically carried by bass instruments, and we love it, because it's easier for our brains to process and follow low-pitched tones.

     

    I'm comparing two pairs of speakers at home (to choose which ones get stay long term), and I'll post about it in these forums soon. The first thing I kept on noticing was the difference in how each handled low-mids and bass. This isn't to say that's the only thing I noticed, it just occurred to me that bass was the first thing I noted when I switched from one pair to the other. My wondering why led me to googling which led me to the articles above - and I thought others may find the insight interesting.

     

    Apologies if this has all been talked about before in these forums, or is general knowledge. I'm still a bit of a newbie here :)

     

    • Like 2
  11. Looking good, Chris!

     

    12 hours ago, chris9753 said:

    I also suspect I'm not a true audiophile as other factors beside sound quality came into consideration. 

    Nonsense. I think being honest about your listening situation and habits, and not 'wasting' your gears' abilities when you're not going to pay attention to them, makes you just as much an 'audiophile' as anyone else. At least it does in my books. Admittedly I'm in the same compromise-filled situation, so my book is a little biased 🙃

     

    12 hours ago, chris9753 said:

    The only difficulty is standing on a chair to turn the AudioEngine's on and off but I'm wondering if I do this at the power point will it cause any damage??

    I owned a pair of Audioengine A2's, first generation (same as yours I think), for over a decade, and I turned them on/off at the wall almost every day. I never experienced a problem. I also bought a pair of A5's (also first generation) a few years ago, and do the same thing powering them on/off at the wall. Same story, no problems. 

     

    One thing I try to do, however, is make sure there's no signal going to them when I first turn them on. (I press play _after_566 I turn the speakers on.) I'm no electrician, so I have no idea if that actually helps or if I'm just being superstitious 🤞

     

  12. On 04/07/2020 at 8:16 PM, deafenears said:

    how about 2 Rythmik L12s? Small and compact enough and will likely fit in that space, or small enough to move around and find better placements in your room.

    Thanks for the tip @deafenears The Rythmiks' dimensions and performance specs look good... but I'm having trouble finding a dealer here in Aus. Is there a place at which I can have an in-person look and audition?

     

    On 04/07/2020 at 8:16 PM, deafenears said:

    If visual symmetry is really important, block out that space and have the sub behind it. But then again, the TV isn't  centered and you don't have two large clocks 😉

    Visual order is important. Symmetry less so. All the stuff you see in that photo is temporary - we're still moving in / painting / renovating. I have an occasional desire to wear that giant clock around my neck and relive my Flavor Flav fandom days... 🙃

    • Haha 1
  13. No More Tears, by The KLF https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqN0_1rrK2U

     

    I like this song for tuning / integrating my subs. The challenge is to get the extension and levels right so that:

    1) You can hear the full range of oscillation between low- and ultra low-bass in the reggae bassline...

    2) ... Without making anything else in the song (like the kick drum layered on top of the bassline) sound too boom-y

    3) With the right amount of SPL's the laid back waves of bass induce motion sickness in your wife (true story!) 😜

     

  14. 11 hours ago, Irek said:

    Thanks for the tip @Irek. At a quick glance, the overall dimensions of their cabinets don't work for my space. I'll try giving them a ring to see if they do custom enclosures. If not I'll definitely keep them in mind for future applications.

     

    Regardless, the fact that companies like this exist at all makes me happy 😁

    • Like 1
  15. 20 hours ago, POV said:

    So there's a lot of questions being asked simultaneously and lots of advice being given.  

    Yes, this thread has gone down some rabbit holes and I'm getting waaay more (valuable!) advice then I bargained for. Like listening to Keith Urban, I kinda hate it but I kinda love it 🙃

     

    20 hours ago, POV said:

    Sorry for the epic post, but please have a think before you spend your hard earned. 

    I really appreciate you, along with everybody else here, taking the time and sharing your experience and expertise. That's why my reply is going to end up being more epic (epicer?) - not because I'm trying to defend my decisions, but because I figure the more you know about my situation the more applicable your advice can be. So are you ready for a long one...? Strap yourself in, Gladys!

     

    20 hours ago, POV said:

    I have experimented heaps with external DACs vs onboard DAC in both the KEF LSX and LS50W with a variety of results.  In general will say that the onboard DACs in both units is very well sorted and highly resolving regardless of content... Where this is somewhat complicate for the LSX is that it does not have an asynchronous USB input.

    It's encouraging to hear that the KEF's have decent onboard DACs!  Fortunately my PC does have optical out. So the plan is to do some A/B testing between connecting the LSX's via optical -vs- via my Audioengine DAC and analog cable, and I'll keep whatever sounds better.

     

    20 hours ago, POV said:

    With regards to the LSX onboard DSP and EQ; it is very basic regards sub integration... Whilst this set of options is most likely suitable for the average punter (particularly if combined with a sub that has some degree of DSP/EQ onboard) ; it's not going to go near what's possible via a separate DSP unit like a minidsp as example.

    Acknowledged re my dependence on the sub(s)' onboard DSP/EQ. This is again one of the reasons I'm drawn towards the SVS SB-2000 Pro's above its peers, as it _seems_ to have a more granular amount of adjustability. (Hopefully I can confirm this the next time I head to the store and do some auditioning and comparing.) Regardless, I may find whatever sub(s) I bring in won't have enough adjustability to sound 'correct' in my space. So I'm very willing to subsequently bring in some sort of mic + measurement and dsp hardware/software about which you, @gwurb, and others in this thread are starting to educate me.

     

    Or maybe the speakers' onboard adjustments will end up being enough for me, and I don't need to bother with any of that. If it means I'm satisfied with the sound, I'll count myself lucky and wear my "average punter" colours with pride 🤪

     

    (By the way I've had junior chipmunk experience with this type of room correction, as my current Velodyne SPL800r has a built-in mic input and room correction function. It's been very useful, and fun to play with!)

     

    20 hours ago, POV said:

    I don't want to create total confusion for you, but I just have to tell you I really think your entire plan want's revisiting!  You are talking about spending circa $3200 on two very powerful, high output subwoofers to run with a very small pair of active bookshelfs where you are essentially spending a total of circa $1800 on DAC; Preamp; Amplifier; and Speaker.

    Trust me I confuse myself and revisit my plan every minute or three! It did dawn on me that I risk spending a disproportionate amount of money on the sub(s).

     

    First, remember that a good part of that $3200 on sub(s) is paying for their dedicated preamp and amplifier too. And if they have a decent enough EQ (a big if I know!) than the $3200 is also paying for the DSP. 

     

    Second, ~$3000 seems like the price I have to pay to get that last half-octave of bass, as evenly distributed as possible, in my listening space. Even though I only listen at moderate levels, I'm learning that it takes a lot of driver + amp + enclosure capability (aka $$$) to play 20Hz at the same perceived, moderate level as the rest of the spectrum. (This is me flexing my newfound knowledge on equal loudness contours. Thanks again @davewantsmoore for the tip!) My own lived experience with my current set up kind of proves this 2:1 (subwoofer:bookshelves) spending ratio to be true. Over the past many years I found the best 'balance' for my Audioengine A5 bookshelves is my Velodyne SPL800r subwoofer, which cost twice as much.

     

    We're talking here like I'm set on buying a pair of SVS SB-2000 Pro's. I most definitely am not. If I had the time today (alas I don't, sigh) I'd go out to audition and compare/contrast:

    - a pair of the SVS's

    - a pair of KEF Kube 12b's (thanks to your tip, POV)

    - a pair of REL HT-1205's (thanks @Irek for the tip!)

    - whatever single ported box sub the salesperson can recommend, that fits my size constraints

    The advantage the latter three have over the SVS's is that they cost less, and therefore would afford me more money to spend on things like better mains, room correction, etc.

     

    20 hours ago, POV said:

    I really think you should consider a different distribution of the $5000 to develop a more balanced system that is more room appropriate.  I really think you are going to find the LSX a bit lost and hollow sounding in that large room... As one example; you could take your $5000 and upgrade from LSX to LS50W (Circa $3000); IISO Acoustics isolation stand (since you are using on a entertainment unit circa $400)... That room is still big for LS50W but can tell you from experience it's much more able to fill a larger space, with a more rich and wholesome mid bass, and midrange.  It is a much better fit for your needs than the LSX.

    My shiny, new LSX's arrived yesterday 😁 I know they're not the ideal speaker for my space, but below is the reason why I bought them. Keep in mind, as mentioned in my post, that my needs are (in order of priority):

    1) Aesthetics and fit with the visual order of my living space

    2) Listening to movies and music at moderate levels

     

    So why did I buy the KEF LSX's?

    - I covet the way KEF's latest bookshelves / standmounts sound. I know their signature sound is divisive, but I enjoy their warm, resonate-y tone. (At least I do in auditions at the store with its ideal listening environment. We'll see if I still feel this way in my more challenging space...)

    - Looks-wise, the LSX's in green and gold are the perfect size and fit for my living space. They're the first _ever_ bit of modern electronic kit to get a "Oooo those are cute. Why can't we put those on our shelves?" response from my wife

    - I'm already quite satisfied with how my Audioengine A5's fill my listening space, at my moderate ~85db listening levels. (I admit if I crank it above that the audio starts to fall apart. Tones get shrill, voices become harsh, cats run away screeching, etc.) Size-wise I expect the LSX's to do equally well at filling my space. (But again, we'll see...)

    - Most importantly, to make up for stuffing me around, a store here offered me a deal on the LSX's at a price I couldn't refuse 😁

    - Once I hook up the LSX's I'll do some A/B comparison with the Audioengines. Hopefully they're a worthy upgrade and I'll hang on to them and eventually swap them for a pair of green and gold ones. (I could only get a deal on a white pair.) If they're not a worthy upgrade I'll sell them used and end up at break-even.

     

    Having said all that I'd _love_ to bring in a pair of LS50W's. I totally agree they'll give me more quality sound, at higher volume levels (should I ever want to go that high) in my space. So why haven't I bought them yet?

    - None of the colours in which they're currently offered excite me. The white and gold ones could kinda work in my space, but meh

    - They're too deep to fit in my bookshelves. I'd have to sit them on top of the TV bench which would somewhat violate aesthetics (but something I could overcome if they were in the right colour)

    - And sitting them on the TV bench may compromise audio quality (I'd have to angle them 5 to 10 degrees towards ears seated on the couch.)

    - Most importantly, nobody's yet offered me a pair at a price I can't refuse 😋

    - But seriously, if after comparing them to my Audioengines I decide to get rid of my LSX's, the LS50W's will be the next candidate on the 'buy' list

     

    20 hours ago, POV said:

    I think I am in a reasonable place to offer some assistance since I actually have hands on experience with the gear you are considering purchasing. 

    I see your experience and thoughtfulness, POV. And your input is very much appreciated!

     

     

    • Like 1
  16. 1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

    Yes, you can use a PC to do DSP as an alternative. 

     

    Regarding your sketch, how will you switch between music and movies?  Also, as you progress along your music journey, you may want to look at improving your PC as the source. There are many tweaks that can be done, including improving the operating system, power supply etc.

    On my PC switching between music and movies is done purely through software: Video LAN player and streaming services like Disney+ for movies, and Winamp, WMP (old school!) and Spotify Premium streaming for music. All audio is currently output via USB to an Audioengine DAC.

     

    In my reading, I may have an issue with running DSP on my computer, as the USB audio may bypass any sound adjusting software. At which point I may switch to audio being output via Toslink optical. (But that may very well bypass DSP software too!) I won't really know until I try...

     

    And yes, agreed I can look into other upgrades to the PC itself. (But my first order of priority at the moment is still getting the speakers into place first.) Endless, this hobby is... 🙂

     

     

    • Like 1
  17. 13 hours ago, POV said:

    I find this thread confusing.  You've said that you mostly listen to music at moderate levels above, if that's the case why would you target a purchase decision for subs around ultra low bass extension for occasional movie watching?  Surely it makes most sense to set up your system for the way you use it most!?

    I understand how this can be confusing (as I confuse myself plenty often!) as I do spend more time listening to music. But when it comes to reproducing low bass, I place a higher priority on doing it well for movie watching. Here's my attempt at a quasi-quantified explanation...

     

    ...Why I feel I need low bass output for only 20 minutes of music listening a week:

    - Take the system pictured in my original post, in happier days past when it was set up and positioned properly. In one given week I'd have music playing on it for a total of 10 hours

    - Of the 10 hours of music listening, I'd spend 9 of those hours doing other things at the same time (reading, chopping up food for dinner, stretching after a run, etc) and therefore not completely paying attention to the music, and definitely not noticing the depths of bass being plumbed

    - In that 1 hour of music listening in which I'm attentively _listening_ I'd say 40 minutes of that is listening to stuff that doesn't have much, if any at all, ultra low bass content below ~40Hz. Even in my larger space, my little Velodyne SPL800r does an admirable job of reproducing driving basslines with decent rhythm and impact above that point

    - It's only in that last 20 minutes a week of listening to music where I'd say to myself "gee I wish I could _feel_ Beethoven's contrabassoon" or "John William's timpani player has weak arms today"

     

    ...Why I feel it's more important to have low bass output for 2 hours of movie watching a week:

    - The same system in the same week would have movies/TV playing for a total of 6 hours

    - Of the 6 hours of movie watching, I'd still spend 3 hours doing other things at the same time, but because the medium requires my ears AND eyes it's harder for my attention to stray

    - In that remaining 3 hours of attentively watching movies, I'd say 1 hour of that is spent watching quieter fair like British murder mysteries (I'm old I know)

    - Which leaves me attentively watching 2 hours a week of escapist, action-driven fair (even worse because I'm old) where I really want to feel the thud of T-Rex's steps as he walks across my screen or the impact when the X-Wing gets torn apart by an explosion

     

    ...TL;DR I'm a chronic multitasker who doesn't pay enough damn attention, thus investing in new subwoofers purely for the few moments of joy when listen to music isn't enough. I need them to spend more time making my movies go 'boom' 🤪

     

    But at the end of the day as @Snoopy8 mentioned, I don't think I need to compromise between movies OR music. From what I'm learning from this thread, with enough extension, power headroom, and EQ adjustability, I can set up ideal listening curves for both movies AND music 🤞

     

    And I don't have my heart set on SVS subwoofers yet. They just happen to be familiar examples that I can compare in my 1 x ported box vs 2 x sealed box quandary. (Admittedly I agree with @spottie. In my own research and auditioning thus far I've found SVS to have the best specs / features / adjustability for the price.) So thank you @POV for your suggestions on the KEF's and REL's. I'm looking into them now, which means more research and auditioning before I commit... but that's half the fun of this hobby, no? 🙂

     

    • Like 2
  18. @spottie Thanks for the tip. But for me WestCoast HiFi comes up as $1999 for the SB-2000 Pro's. Maybe I missed the sale, or they adjust prices according to location 🤔 Not a huge problem as I feel it may be a bit premature to commit to a pair of subs anyway - everything I'm learning on this thread has me diving back into researching my options and I foresee the need for an audition or two before I buy.

     

    Congrats on your purchase though! I eagerly await your report on how well going dual has gone for you 💪 

  19. 15 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

    For music,  use DAC and Integrated amp to mains, as well to the subs via DSP.  For movies, feed the L&R preout to the Integrated (which acts as the amp for movies). 

    One of the main features for which I'm looking in an upgrade is DSP and adjustable EQ built into the powered bookshelf speakers, and the same built into the subs. Hopefully my system will look like this... (In fact, the KEF LSX bookshelves I have coming in supposedly have a high quality, onboard DAC. I'll do the requisite listening comparison, but that means I may even get rid of the separate DAC in the below diagram)...

    image.thumb.png.a1abb4be05a4007e2c149f977350145e.png

     

    But am I missing something here? @Snoopy8 Is there some advantage to be gained by having a separate DSP unit feeding the subwoofer(s) that I'm not getting with my plan above?

     

    I'm mentally preparing myself to spend many hours listening, measuring, and adjusting once I have the hardware in. Thus far I envisioned doing this with the aid of a calibrated mic and software on my PC (which also happens to be the source of all my audio) and/or the EQ software built into the mains and subwoofers themselves. (I'm also mentally prepared to come back to these forums to ask for help in how to best do this!) @POV @AudioGeek @gwurb Will I suffer a significant loss of quality or adjustability by relying on the speakers' onboard DSP's and EQ's instead of introducing a separate DSP / EQ unit into the audio path?

     

    Apologies to everyone if my questions here seem naive. I've only ever had a 'dabblers' level of experience in this stuff thus far, and my pace of learning can rightly be classified as 'turtle' 🙃 And thanks in advance for your continuing education of Quinn!

  20. @davewantsmoore Thank you for your understanding the importance I place on practicality and aesthetics. I wish I had the luxury of sound quality above all else but I don't (sigh) and I have to keep my living space, you know... livable. Visual symmetry then becomes a big bonus!

     

    And also thank you for linking me to the article on the equal loudness contour! Super interesting, even though it's a bit over my head and I only understood 25% of what I read :P The upshot is that I now feel less 'guilty' having occasionally boosted lower octaves when listening, especially at low overall volume levels. It's not because I'm getting old and losing my hearing - it's because we're all born this way! :)

     

    As mentioned above I feel like I'm heading towards two SVS SB-2000 Pro's. I assume their inbuilt EQ will let me compensate for their natural roll of below 40Hz? And because I'm only listening at moderate levels there should be enough headroom for the subs' high excursion drivers and 550W RMS / 1500W peak power to make up the difference?

     

    And finally thank you for your reminder about integration. The SB-2000 Pro's have an inbuilt, adjustable LPF and EQ. For bookshelves I have a pair of KEF LSX's incoming which have an inbuilt, adjustable HPF and EQ. Having said that I'm prepared for all that being not enough, so fair warning as I'll likely soon start a topic asking for beginner's advice on room correction and more 'advanced' equalisation!

     

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