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Javs

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  1. You may want to try and replicate more of a BT2390 curve rather than that, your curve will result in pretty dull highlights. Also, extend it to where 1200 nits or so would sit. Trust me when I say thats a better number than 1000, more films will have content up to there on average. Make it twist a little more like these, try starting the knee at around 50% (100 nits):
  2. I dont think the 420 does Panasonics tone mapping the same as the 820 and 9000. I think it just has the slider like the UB900 has.
  3. The very fact that support page does that means JVC dont have a leg to stand on. This is bullshit and would not hold up to an ounce of scrutiny from the ACCC. Where IN THE BOX does is say you cannot update the firmware with official software? This becomes a bigger joke by the minute.
  4. They will but you have to send your projector to a 3rd party service center to have them apply the fix. If you want my advice, just dont man, maybe dont use it if the banding bothers you if you really must use CMD.
  5. Rich, you definitely want to look at the LK970 or LK990 rather than this one... Its simply not bright enough. The 990 is 6000 lumens! By the time you calibrate it will drop 30%. The 12000 or similar LED models will be dimmer than a JVC at that point.
  6. Highly sophisticated, in fact, it requires teraflops of processing power to do it. I am sorry, but I find it laughable that we have two posters here essentially stating that this is nothing more than distortion. Its just a completely narrow minded point of view, and frankly, only would really come out of the mouth of those who have not really in depth looked at where things are now, either that they have zero experience with the format due to not actually owning any real content, disk players, HDR capable devices etc, and ACUALLY compared the playing field and prefer to talk theory rather than experience. Have any of you ever looked at a real HDR passthrough on a true HDR display, and SDR Tone Mapped image IN the same room at the same time to see how close the results are? Because I have spent the past year doing it with the MadVR development which has been ongoing, that's how my theatre is set up, I have a PC here with a 1400 nit Samsung QLED and my JVC right next to me, I can look at, and compare both, the JVC wipes the floor with the Samsung OEM HDR passthrough, when I use MadVR tone mapping on both and set properly, the Samsung reaches a new level which was not previously possible, it gets much better, but extremely comparable to the JVC (amazingly so actually) especially when the true peak nits is used as the base for the tone mapping to operate which is how its designed. HDR on projectors has definitely been a journey, it has come a very long way. There is no mistake that due to those advancements the JVC throws the 2nd best HDR tone mapped image in my house behind only my OLED. We KNOW as a technicality the HDR format is SDR by definition when viewed on a projector, which is what posters in this thread simply cannot let go of, that's never really been up for dispute from me, at least due to a couple qualifiers, that's WHY its called HDR Tonemapping in about every implementation of it, but frankly, that's NOT the angle I come from when discussing the merits, hence its frustrating when talking about it, you get the common comment BUT ITS NOT HDR blah blah, ignoring otherwise the entire conversation. The format needs to be considered as a whole with all the moving parts included. The fact is, any given film mastered well in HDR, which is almost all of them today, will always surpass its SDR counterpart in the final image you get on screen due to how all those moving parts come together, this includes any display capable of say, 75 nits and up. I use 85 myself since I prefer to stick with low lamp, though high lamp would give me 120 nits, I saw zero reason to really go that way, it looks remarkable even at 85 nits.
  7. Short of an OLED, a JVC projector for eg has considerably more dynamic range than any LCD TV out there. So the only real display with dynamic range capable for HDR as a technicality is an OLED, do you agree? So, a side question, should LED LCD's be considered acceptable for HDR despite the fact the peak brightness can reach 1000 nits, they only have an average contrast ratio of maybe 3500:1. They may hit 1000 nits, but the black level is stratospheric at about 0.3nits without dimming (near black is sky high), Meanwhile a good JVC can do optimistically (at wide open iris) 40,000:1. The white level is respectable at probably around 120 peak nits for the average setup, but the black level is 0.003 nits or less without the DI. So, when talking about dynamic range, which is it? Peak nits, or actual dynamic range? Only on an OLED can you have both. Also lets talk about MaxFALL. Most all displays out there, if you put up a 100% white field at 100% size calling for 10,000 nits, the display will cap itself to maybe 400 nits a split moment after displaying full brightness, if you are lucky, they may be able to show a car headlight brighter, but anything approaching full ADL and you hit MaxFALL, the display dims to protect the panel. The real world difference here is actually much closer than people make it out to be. SDR has only about 6 stops of encoded dynamic range in it due to being 8 bit, HDR along with being 10bit encoded (not interpolated/chroma upscaled) has up to 17.6 stops. The JVC's have around 14 stops I believe. That makes them far more qualified to display an HDR encoded source than your average LCD TV does it not? Also, if I view my 'HDR tonemapped' films at 120 nits peak, does that mean its not SDR anymore, since I am past the point it was designed? Semantics indeed.
  8. ^ Finally a logical post If anyone wants to do some really interesting reading and follow the development of MadVR Dynamic Tone Mapping, I encourage you guys to have a read of this lengthy and in depth thread. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector.html Its pretty amazing the level of commitment and work that is going in to this. This is the community coming together and improving drastically upon something and problem solving. In fact, interesting things have come to light from this, namely one being that even true 1000 nit HDR displays are displaying the wrong colour all together when pixels exceed the RGB limit. That is one interesting tidbit, but also, interestingly, one of the main colours this applies to, the colour Red, it actually seems to harm the look of fire in just about every film. HDR on 'Dumb' displays tend to allow a hue shift when the pixel encode for red exceeds its RGB limit, and then it will hue shift to yellow and orange. This coincidentally creates a conundrum, do you allow the hue shift or not, which is correct? The encoded pixel, or the comparison with the SDR Bluray encode perhaps? Interesting indeed. What we have done is actually added an option for allowing the hue shift only on red, I like it myself since it makes fire look better with proper, red, orange and yellow in most cases. Thought it might be interesting for some people to see what goes on anyway.
  9. What are your thoughts on HDR? Think its worthless on projectors?
  10. Happy for mods to delete this thread if they feel, I never really asked for it to be created anyway.
  11. The images were tone mapped for 120 nits at 2.2 gamma in order to post here for a reason. That's why you can view them.. when you do that in a light controlled room, the tone mapped images look better without a doubt. Also comical you say the revenant shot looked harsh. I am otherwise not really interested in arguing with a brick wall mate. So my last comment on it is below. Its a shame you are not on AVS. Funny you said it's a waste of time, is that because there are a LOT of genuine industry professionals on there whom you don't wish to engage with?? There are not many posters on here with the far reaching knowledge to challenge you, it's tiring for me to try, maybe you don't post on there because they would set your narrow views on the subject straight pretty quickly?, maybe not. You don't like a good disscussion? 10 years is an eternity, There are lots of people who would have the patience perhaps to construct a more long term conversation and people who could articulate other points, even calibration professionals (whom you would no doubt just claim don't know what they are talking about), but you keep repeating the same few points over and over for the past couple years now so I am pretty tired of it myself. You clearly haven't paid much attention to the UHD format or done much in depth real world testing with it despite some fleeting occasions by the sounds of it, I am pretty confident in that, so I don't see how your limited testing invalidates the entire idea of HDR and projection just because you don't have a 1000 nit display. Especially when SDR is mastered for 100 nits but people have been watching it just fine at 40 or 50 nits for years. Its no different here really. I would say perhaps read up more on how the EOTF works and calibration in relation to it. After 100 nits (virtual) on the EOTF all bets are off in terms of how you want to address the rolloff granted, But you are only going to come back saying the same things over and over. Stop focusing on the dictionary definition of SDR and HDR for a moment and focus on the actual format we have and it's results, and then you will get somewhere, you have been arguing semantics this whole time. And around the world we go. Anyone else interested in HDR for projection I can assure you all the uptick in video experience is NOT subtle! It has gone from generally unwatchable on projectors 2 years ago to frankly stunning today and most definitely clearly superior (in REAL WORLD VIEWING) to the SDR versions.
  12. it is not a source device. So, you will need a way to feed it a signal of some kind.
  13. People expecting this to be something in the realm of the HDFuryu will be very disappointed. Its more likely going to cost HTPC money since it will essentially be just that, a PC underneath it all, it will also be running Nvidia graphics cards most likely since MadVR requires a huge amount of teraflops to work its magic. So, expect to part with a few thousand dollars for one most likely.
  14. I've been told the new JVC's have flipped polarisation compared to the previous models. If that is the case, then the Xpand glasses ARE the right glasses to get, even if you screen does retain polarisation. I have four pairs myself, they are brilliant. Though if you have an OZTS screen, it does NOT retain any polarisation whatsoever, not even a little bit. I've seen a SI Black Diamond 1.4 and that thing retains crazy polarisation, 3D was basically completely black through my glasses, turn my head and it came back, but obviously un-watchable.
  15. HDR is here to stay, which is why you wont see me go on about how stupid it is and will never work unless you have 1000 nit displays, that's completely glass half empty method of thinking and its very tiring to read here ad nauseam, which is a running theme with the person perpetrating those points of view! I think dynamic tone mapped HDR looks considerably better than SDR as a whole. I have been watching it long enough on enough displays to come to that conclusion. I have tested the tone mapping on most UHD players, done Samsung, done Oppo, done Panasonic (not the 820), done custom curves (there are literally hundreds of people running my custom curves on JVCs), I've even got 4 UHD HDR displays in my house right now! They all treat HDR slightly differently, Dynamic Tone Mapped HDR has the potential to be a game changer. Sorry, but HDR works even on displays which are brightness challenged to a certain degree, I run 85 nits right now in HDR and I could run 125, but I dont need to, I know if I had the choice, I would choose the HDR version of any given film so long as they did not muck up the mastering. As time goes on, these films are getting better and better. The Marvel stuff is exceptional. Infinity War especially a stand out. The glass is most definitely half full over here!
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