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Tobes

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  1. Chris, I'm still preferring the short wall placement for SQ and getting used to the new arrangement. I see your dimensions are very close to mine (6x4.3x2.7m) and that's a nicely shaped room, so you can get good results with both positions. I think short wall placement offers the most potential and, in the case of the ATC's I'm using, is probably more along the lines of what the designer intended. As always you have to work around domestic considerations. In terms of space usage the long wall placement was better (for me) but I'm going with the short wall setup. The biggest improvements with short wall placement (with speakers and seating position almost 2m off the front and back wall respectively) is the greater image stability and depth perspective. There is much better discrimination of acoustics/ambient sound in recordings and the relative positioning of sounds. This is not to say the long wall placement was bad in these respects, but in hindsight the comb effects created by proximity to the rear wall was messing with the sound - despite treatment to mitigate the impact. Nonetheless I was getting very satisfactory sound on the long wall. The speakers are placed very close to the classic equilateral triangle with the centre of the front baffles about 2.6m apart. After some experimentation I've ended up with the DC2 diffusers distributed around the room. Treatment is symmetrically placed left to right. Side walls now have 120x60cm Wavepanels added - originally ordered to try on the long wall setup, but I'd changed before arrival. The vertical panels are at the first reflection point (I found these to sound better than my DIY panels in this position) I said I wasn't going to bother with the back wall, but I found that some extra diffusion improved the sound.
  2. Shane, I think Joz's bad experience was with the heavier Wavepanels. The problem is not just the weight IMO, the 3M strips just work better with the more rigid DC2 panels.
  3. @joz I've found them to be very secure with the DC2 panels so far. The tab attached to the wall must be pushed home firmly to guarantee a secure attachment - this is pretty easy to ensure with the solid DC2 panels. The tabs stick very securely to the polystyrene panels and the wall side tabs would be difficult to remove except by the pull release tab. The materials being adhered to will effect the 3M tabs efficacy. I'll keep an eye on them and reply back to this thread if I get any failures. The Wavepanels are a different story, not really appropriate because they are spongy and considerably heavier. I've glued 3mm MDF backing to back of the Wavepanels (as you suggested elsewhere) but won't use the 3M strips because the sponginess of the panels doesn't allow proper pressure to be applied and click home the velcro without risking damage to the panel. I plan to hang 4 of the 120cm Wavepanels on the sidewalls with hooks into the MDF backing.
  4. Bob, they're DIY bass traps I built to John Risch's instructions (scroll down the page for the bass trap recipe). The construction is MDF ends which hold 2 concentric cylinders of fairly heavy wire mesh between which are compressed fibreglass batts (centre is void). The whole thing is wrapped in in 1" polyester blanket (to trap the fibreglass) and then finished with loose weave hessian fabric. On top of the circular bass trap I have a DIY 120mm thick absorption panel across the corner. Even though the dimensions of my room (6x4.3x2.7m) were chosen to minimise stacking of bass modes the bass traps are very effective in cleaning up the bass.
  5. @romekaff the diffusers are the Vicoustic DC2 - they sell for about $700 for six (600x600mm). They are made from polystyrene foam, so are functional rather than strictly good looking. They do also come in grey and black. I got mine for Audio Trends in Melbourne.
  6. Having listed all my excuses above - I decided to bite the bullet and try short wall placement. Bottom line: I like it! As predicted its eaten up some available space and I now longer have room for my recliner and headphone nook - not sure the less open look has been welcomed by my other half either. Now have to experiment with re-placement of the diffuser panels and other treatment. But even without adjusting any of the diffusers, and just placing a DIY panel at the first sidewall reflection points, it sounds excellent.
  7. Seems nothing remains static for long. Only just added the diffusion panels to my long wall placement (with pretty nice results) and now I've decided to make a major change moving the speakers to the more traditional short wall placement. I've been pondering trying this for some time, but being such a PITA (in terms of system upheaval) I've put it off. One reason for putting it off is short wall placement eats up some available space as the sofa is pulled out into the room - and I've had to remove my seperate headphone listening nook I had with the old setup (sofa position presently used for both). I've yet to play around with side wall placement of the diffusers, which are where I had them for the previous setup. Old setup. Room dimensions were chosen for favourable room modes - 6m x 4.2m x 2.7m : Short wall setup - sofa about 2m from the back wall and speakers 1.8m from the front wall and 900mm to side walls (centre of baffle in both cases). Absorbent panels placed at first side wall reflection point, but I've yet to adjust DC2 diffusers (which are were they were for the long wall placement). Results are very positive - more stable/consistent imaging and depth discrimination. Great sound balance. Record racks on the back wall provide pretty good diffusion - probably won't bother treating this wall, there is a 600x600mm foam absorber on the door. The diffusers on the right will be moved to more appropriate positions, possibly some to the ceiling.
  8. Thanks for the report Terry. Like I said above, in my case it isn't a matter of not hearing a difference but rather whether or not that difference is preferable or an across the board improvement. I do believe in quality cables and have heard quite significant differences in SE designs over the years. I remember back when the Monster Cable M1000 was introduced (around 1980?) and was labelled outrageously priced at US$125/m pair. Things have gotten pretty ridiculous since then, but when you look at the actual construction of cables it's hard to see how some of todays prices are justified. Confession to make, while I've tried several SE cables brand name and DIY cables, I've only really tried the Wireworld XLR's - mainly due to being highly rated and of generally neutral disposition. These sounded a bit 'bigger', warmer, possibly more dimensional than the Mogami - which may be preferable with some material. However when I put the Mogami XLR's back in I didn't feel any great sense of loss or depending on the material I might prefer the latter. This was between the Benchmark DAC3>HPA4>AHB2 which are true differential fully balanced components and are very revealing with S/N and distortion figures close to SOTA. Maybe other components vary more with different cables? In any case, even with moderately priced cables like the copper WW Eclipse, long lengths become quite expensive - enough to rule out experimentation. The more exotic cables can be crazy expensive in long lengths, just not a path I'm comfortable to travel down (unless I win the lottery). As always with these things the value is in the ear of the beholder. YMMV.
  9. Yep, still using my Celestion 3's for the living room tv system - bought them new in the early 90's - very nice sounding little speaker. GLWTS.
  10. I did envisage trying both but as as things have turned out the short wall placement doesn't offer the same practical and aesthetic advantages for my purposes. Short wall placement would mean the couch would be in front of the entry point and pushed into the room which would make the room look cluttered and less open. I'd have to place the TV against the wall with the window and it would impinge on same and be close to the heater panel. Long wall placement means I can have wide speaker placement and still have the speakers well away from the side walls - I like the spacious sound this creates. It would be more difficult to integrate my headphone nook which currently occupies the ample space at the far end of the room. So for these reasons I haven't tried it. Happy with the sound I get on the long wall and still have more options to further optimise the sound. I haven't used any measurement to assist in optimisation (yet), more trial and error. I did calculate the room modes before deciding on the room dimensions (basic dimensions follow Sepmeyers 1 : 1.6 : 2.33 ratio, then tweaked for minimum stacking at chosen size).
  11. Yes exactly. The XLR to my left speaker is 15ft - so about 5m. There is no way in hell I'd spend that type of money on interconnects. I have compared the Mogami Studio Gold to Wireworld Eclipse 7 XLR (a set of which I still own) and the Mogami stack up pretty well. They sound different, but nothing that would justify the expense of buying a 5m set. A single 15ft Mogami XLR is about $80 and comes with the industry standard Neutrik gold XLRs I think money would be far better spent on acoustic treatment that could have massive positive impact on sound quality - far outstripping gains on expensive cables. I'm not saying cables don't make a difference, I think they do, but value for money vs other options to improve sound is poor - and worse at the pointy end. Cables are icing on the cake, not fundamental like acoustic treatment. I also think that the differences between unbalanced cables are more pronounced than XLR, probably because the former are far more likely to introduce noise to input stage of the next component. Properly designed differential balanced equipment will cancel any noise introduced to the cable. BTW, here is a link to a video by Benchmark's John Siau where he demonstrates the effective noise suppression of Canare star quad cable (similar construction to Mogami). I suspect many 'hi-end' cables would be inferior to these pro cables in terms basic noise suppression.
  12. Yes I have tried various arrangements of absorbent material behind my listening position. I found that I had to be careful because too much absorption was not to my liking - too dead. I had the 60x60cm foam panels and opted to cut them in half so I could experiment with slimmer vertical arrangements with spaces in-between. I found this quite satisfactory. When I got the DC2's I tried various mixes, the arrangement pictured above - with a slim vertical absorption flanked by the DC2s is one that gave good results. I expect to do more experimenting. I'd like to try some of the Vicoustic Wavewood panels in that position - which are a mixture of diffusion and absorption (see pic below). Depending on how that goes I may then move the 4 DC2 panels from the back wall to the ceiling reflection point. I see Vicoustic also have an Ultra Wavewood panel that has some good looking acoustic properties - will check this out also: https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/vicoustic-website.appspot.com/o/vicpattern-ultra-wavewood%2Fproduct-docs%2FVicPattern_manual_2019.pdf?alt=media&token=69cd6bd7-51a0-424a-b753-9a343af9f928
  13. They look very interesting - and not expensive.
  14. I added some of the Vicoustic diffusers to my room and thought it might be worth mentioning the attachment method used. Vicoustic talk about gluing to the walls - but this arrangement is far too permanent for my liking. With acoustic treatment you need to have the flexibility to change things if needed, you may want to accomodate different speaker positioning, different speakers or even move to a different room. I used the 3M command strips - two piece sticky backed strips held together with velcro. The adhesive strips have excellent adhesion to the DC2 foam panels. The DC2 panels weigh just under 1.4kg and just two strips will hold 2.7kg - or you could use more if you wished. The velcro then allows easy removal if required and the strip adhered to the wall can be removed without leaving any mark at all. The strip on the actual diffuser is undamaged and the panel can be re-attached in a different position by simply adding a new strip for the wall side. Of course you can remove and re-attach to the same position as required via the velcro. Very convenient. I experimented without using any actual wall attachment first by propping up/vertical stacking the diffusers on objects to find the arrangement that sounded best. The setup below provides a significant improvement in my acoustics. Most noticeable is the enhanced recreation of space and recorded ambiance. While I mostly listen to music I put on a movie last night and noted a distinct improvement in sound-field precision and image steering. I have just a 4 speaker setup but results are very impressive.
  15. The SCM100's sounded great with just the DIY + other absorption panels I had in my room - but have now added some Vicoustic DC-2 diffusers, something I'd been meaning to get around to but never did. Thanks to Audio Trends in Melbourne for the excellent service - price matched and provided free expedited shipping so I could have them for the weekend - top guys! Have a few pics. Showing with grilles in place, which is how I listen and IMO they sound better that way. ATC designed the grille to fit over the protruding baffle to provide a low diffraction edge (pro models like @MarkT's have the built in rounded edge and don't require a grille).
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