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rawl99 last won the day on January 2 2014

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  1. Nor an uncommon approach to signal grounding. You will see the shield is cut off at the switch end so the grounding is effectively a bus grounding approach where the bare copper wires act as an “earth bus” for each channel. Note that the shields are connected to the bus at each of the rca sockets. There is no return ground signal running through the shield on the coax to the switch which is really the correct way of shielding a signal line. Similar concept to using a 2 core shielded conductor for a mono signal ( eg analog interconnect) where the 2 cores function as signal and ground respectively and the shield is connected at source end only. In this switchbox to isolate the grounds for each of the sources you need a switch with another wafer to switch the grounds in synchronised manner with the signal lines. Only then will the grounds be truly isolated from each other.
  2. Make one yourself if you are handy with a soldering iron. This gives you the choice if switch/connectors which you are free to choose depending on the level you want to go to to match the quality of components you have. The rca sockets and the switch can make a tragic difference to the performance of the switch box. The very vast majority of off-the-shelf units I have seen have tin plated steel sockets. The better quality ones one hopes would be at least brass connectors.
  3. Max, ‘I don’t own either (deliberately) as I have been less than impressed with what these products do. First comment: IME quality power cables/connectors/power boards are definitely not snake oil. Second comment: different brands of power devices (cables connectors, power boards) seem to have different sonic characters to them - or house sound if you wish to describe it that way. If you like what I describe as a brittle, etched and forward, somewhat overly-detailed type of sound signature these products may appeal perfectly to you. I am much more of the harmonically rich and natural sound preference and find that the Isoteks I have played with and listened to remove the sound signature I like. I have a mate in the industry who just purchased a handful of isotek products (power board and several cables) for his own rig and, frankly, he hates them. He bought them on another’s recommendation and wishes he had not. So to now appear to contradict myself. However, depending on the components you have, these cables possibly may be exactly what you are looking for. Hi Fi systems are very much a collective of signature sounds or a collective of Yin and Yang components. Getting YOUR ideal balance can involve a decent bit of experimentation. That is a good part of what makes this hobby: fun, frustrating, potentially expensive, rewarding. See if there is anywhere you can borrow a fully run-in Isotek cable/power strip to try on your system so you can make a fully informed decision. I am sure others will voice decidedly different viewpoints on these products. That is part of the challenge of Hi-Fi: i.e. In what system context have their experiences been had? Good Luck Rawl
  4. I will say then that I think you are blessed with good fortune. With off-grid situations the problem in determining whether the hash is detrimental is that you have no grid feed to compare the performance with. So ya get what ya get.
  5. Well aware of all the above. It can be an interesting experiment/experience to hear the sonic impact of a very small amount of high frequency hash on a power supply line. Clay Giesler and bhobba did some scope work with power supplies for Bills Chord DAC and Clay I believe was quite amazed by the sonic impact of a very small level of hash. Assuming that the supply is regulated. A lot of brilliant valve gear has little to no regulation. The devices rely on multiple filtering stages to clean the power to an acceptable degree with no regulation used. Accordingly, a lot of these devices are sensitive to mains quality. Interestingly, a very good number of these devices I have heard that use very little to no regulation have sounded amazing. Almost comes across as a subtle insult with you sitting at the pinnacle of audiophile purity. EVERY! amplifier adds a sonic signature. That is just a simple fact. Some hurt the signal more than others and the ones that hurt more I describe as ‘lifeless and ordinary’ If you have done some comparisons of very good amps vs more average amps (with great quality compinentry filling in the other spots) then I am certain you would understand my description. Once you have heard music that sounds ‘alive’ ( Like you would hear at a live acoustic performance such as a classical symphony) through a reproduction system then you will understand my terminology. Intetesting that less hash = better sound. ‘Standard’ practice is a wildly variable thing. A power supply that measures well may not sound good. Been there done that. And to what level is the hash filtered out?? Maybe to a level deemed to be acceptable? But ‘acceptable’ has very different meaning to different people depending on the level of excellence sought in the devices performance. Perhaps in your theory it should be. But I would posit that it takes pretty good damn setup to hear the difference so expecting to record and hear it on s $500 device could be a really big ask. What it suggests to me is that most people are unable to discern the effects of such hash on the mains( for reasons I shall not elaborate upon), plus they are possibly cognizant of the situation I refer to in previous sentence. Absolutely we are indeed. Whether you worry about it or not I figure depends upon whether you can hear it or not. Cant help you with such a recording; sorry.
  6. I think I must be broken. I are an Electronics Injuneer and I also reckon listening is what it is about🤔 Do you know anybody that could help fix me🤓
  7. But.....drum roll............ 'does it affect the sound of the system?
  8. Indee it would be expected to be substantially higher than this. You keep maintaining that an Audiophile device will generally attenuate hash to a negligible level. I am again curious as to exact;y what evidence you have to support this ongoing claim/supposition. You posted a little way back about regulatory requirements re fit-for-purpose etc and that if an audiophile device is affected by hash then it fails the fit-for-purpose requirement of the consumer acts. The interesting aspect of your comments for me is that if a device is improved in its performance by a power regenerator for example, then that device automatically fails the fit-for-purpose rule and is deemed to be essentially faulty. Ime there are very very few (essentially none that I have come across) devices that: a: sound terrific AND b: are immune to mains variance. So that suggests that there are very very few devices that are fit-for-purpose as per the consumer codes you talk about. If I consider all of the electronics in my systems, all of it is affected by the inverter hash, including something as basic as a couple of k avr with a good quality Yamaha keyboard attached to it. The difference in piano production from the keyboard through avr is significantly better without the inverter connected. Ditto (and a little more obvious) with the keyboard connected directly through the valve amp. Similarly I use a squeezebox for back-ground music through a pretty decent Dac and it is rather sensitive with its switch-mode wallwart to the mains it gets fed. That one I have to say threw me for a loop when I figured it out. I have however, heard a number of amplifiers that seemed essentially immune from mains quality but they sounded lifeless and ordinary anyway so they do not rate as good examples. The other comments you have made are that we should be able to digitally record and play-back through headphones, say, using something like the Zoom H5 and if the effect of the hash is at all relevant/significant then it will be clearly audible through such a setup? @rmpfyf had some interesting comments/thoughts on this that mirror mine to a large degree. The other quote from you is: "If the level of the error from the ideal is so subtle and elusive that it cannot be captured using the line input of a reasonable quality portable recorder then I would question whether the matter warrants further attention" I have to say that I find this to be quite an astonishing comment if you are one who seeks to create as high-a-quality music reproduction as you can. Some of us are crazy enough to want to achieve a level of reproduction that supersedes that vast majority of "reasonable quality portable recorder(s)" If what you suggest is true then why do we all spend so much time and money on high grade playback devices and why on earth do GOOD studios spend so much money on recording equipment? Could we not all just buy a $500 digital recorder/playback device because it has 24/96 or better resolution and that will then give us all of the accuracy/resolution one could ever need? Do you see my point here? If something like the H5 is accurate enough and resolving enough to show all the effects on devices caused by the hash then why is there any need to waste money on equipment any better than this for 'audiophile' playback? I am not intending to be a smart-arse with this question; just a bit of perspective, You consistently seem to come from a theory and measurement point of view. Whilst I think these are valuable tools at the end of the day it is the listening experience that captures and enthrals us. I have listened to a lot of equipment that measures and specs amazingly that is as unengaging and uninteresting to listen to as it is possible to get. So whilst the theory and measurements are useful, they are not at all definitive of what the final sound quality will be. Thank you for your interesting and thought-provoking posts good Sir. Please keep them coming. cheers Rawl as an interesting ps: a lot!! of audio nut-jobs love single ended amps and high sensitivity speakers. This combination has an amazing presence, life and naturalness to it. If we look at the measurements we will find the distortion of such an SE amplifier to be massively higher than a PP with high global feedback. Very commonly such an SE amplifier design is VERY minimilist and will be highly impacted by mains quality. Does that make it a poor amplifier??
  9. Actually do not mean it as a challenge. I am just wanting to know what the bass is for his supposition You ask a fine question here. I was not very specific was I. I guess my interpretation of super-heavy-duty is gained from the technical brains-trust on this forum who reliably state that any product that changes its sonic character with a change in power cord is poorly designed. Everything that is well-designed is apparently immune to any changes on the AC because the power supply effectively isolates the downstream from any AC effects. Accordingly everything I build or work on must be poorly designed because: Their sonic character consistently changes with changing power cords They are sensitive to mains quality eg my solar example They don't have mega-huge massively parallelled capacitor banks in their power supplies......which appears to be the cure-all for removing sensitivity to mains-related effects. Typcally I find such methodology to produce a rather flat and bland sound signature. Interested in your results as I often observe degradation with too much C I thought old-farts didn't need to sleep as much😁😁😳😳😏😏 Get to more Hifi shows where you can (apparently) listen to the pinnacle of technological developments and hear the best sound reproduction that your $ can buy.🤔 Cheers lad. Let us know how your experiment goes
  10. Perhaps. I also find it highly unlikely that Rd would get coupled through as you suggested earlier. The entire panel strings are earthed as per the spec. So we are talking rf coupling into the solid state portion of the panels. The government regulations as I understand are for radiated hash rather than what is sent back down the wires. Agree there are significant regulations Re acceptable levels. You have made the statement repeatedly across multiple threads that “Audio equipment would normally be designed to tolerate a certain amount of hash. “ . Just our of curiosity can you present any evidence to support this claim/supposition? If so, what type of hash? What frequency range of hash? What level of hash would we expect to be rejected? Then the key one: what impact does super-heavy-duty filtering and regulation have on the sonic performance of a component? The reason I mention this is because pretty much all of the very good sounding equipment that I have ever experienced has been extremely sensitive to mains issues. So much of the apparently brilliantly designed ( from a theoretical POV) equipment with mega cap banks and mega-regulation internally sounds meh ime of listening to a lot of it. The best sounding equipment I have heard has always been valve-based with typical C-L-C-R-C or C-R-C-R-C style power supplies. They have always been sensitive to mains quality. I find it very telling that a LOT!!!!! of people comment that their systems sound the best late at night —- is when all the crap from industry is at a minimum and solar is also at a minimum. I find exactly the same thing and it is not imagined. So that clearly suggests to me that the very vast majority of audio equipment with all nature of varied design philosophies is significantly sensitive to mains quality. That fits 100% with my experiences over the years. One example I will pick on is the Audio Research Ref610T valve monoblocks. They were designed with huge cap-banks on the power supplies and significant regulation of supplies: and were an outstanding sounding amplifier——and significantly sensitive to mains quality ( and power cables😷) So why with this design approach were they still mains sensitive?? cheers
  11. Have to say that I was extremely surprised as well. I actually was very surprised by the effect of the inverter, unlike you. But when I contemplate it a bit the inverter really is like a giant SMPS. No idea of the effects of adjacent property devices. Put a No Trespassing sign up for wanton waves.... 50hz only allowed access.
  12. I agree absolutely with you John that all inverters will vary. Not all inverters are created equal. I got my kit through a friend who knew I was an audio nut...so is he actually. He highly recommended the inverter I got as being a brilliant bit of gear. I am a bit saddened by the findings I had
  13. The reason for ‘imaginary friends” is because everybody else must be smarter than me given your quote as follows: “(It's inherently unlikely given that the inverter electronics would be merely monitoring the panels and the mains, and not actually operating the inverter.)” What about the inverter staying synced to the 240v AC side??? Could that attachment not cause switch mode hash?? It was quite surprising to us as we were doing regular listening tests as part of some cable development. One week at our Friday night listening session the SQ had suddenly gone to crap. Short version of a longer story is that I eventually figured out that the only possible change I could think of was the installation of the solar system that week and wondered/mused if that could be related. Went outside without telling the others what I was doing and isolated the AC connection and I heard them yell out that whatever I had just done the SQ returned to normal. I then reconnected the AC connection and within 30 seconds ( sync time) they yelled out that it had gone to crap again. I then disconnected the AC connection and went back inside and the SQ was indeed back to its normal level. I then told the boys what I had done and we all sat and shook our heads in amazement. Feel free to take that as you will. I got my sparky to put an isolator on the 240v connection so it is easy to drop the inverter offline for critical listening. The connection of the inverter causes a hardening if the sound and a distinct collapse of the soundstage in all dimensions. The subtle harmonics that create a sense of ‘airiness’ and huge dimensionalitu ’ ( for want of better terms) in the music presentation seems to disappear and the presentation becomes relatively flat, lifeless and unengaging. It a nutshell it sucks.
  14. Okidoki. i confess that I am an idiot and that I and approx half a dozen other people that have heard this occurrence are imagining it. A number of people that I have discussed this with have found the same imaginary findings as me after experimenting on their own systems. You ASSUME that because the panels are not injecting that the switch mode function of the inverter is not tracking and synchronized with grid V. From my imaginary observations I would suggest that in this assumption you be incorrect good Sir and the switch mode tracking on the grid V is injecting hash ie smps-type hash Be assured that in my imaginary universe that the effect is very real for me and my imaginary friends.
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