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Celts88

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About Celts88

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  • Birthday 31/12/1964

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  • Location
    Ocean Reef, WA
  • Country
    Australia
  • First Name
    John

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  1. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Sorry for all the graphs, but only just starting to figure out how to do this in REW. Looks like the Crossover (38Hz 4th Order) of Mains/Sub has partly helped reduce the big spike at ~20Hz to ~30Hz. Left Speaker: Old unfiltered - Blue, New with Xover - Green Right Speaker: Old unfiltered - Blue, New with Xover - Green
  2. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Re-did the measurements this time with Crossover at 38Hz 4th Order for both Mains + Sub (still includes SAM at 67%) From the below I think it's a bit better with this crossover (I suppose I should superimpose this with the older one to give a comparison 😞 Mains - Red, Both - Green, Sub - Blue (to 20kHz) Mains - Red, Both - Green, Sub - Blue (to 1kHz) Left: Main Only - Red, Main + Sub - Green (to 1kHz) Right: Main Only - Red, Main + Sub - Green (to 1kHz)
  3. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Re-did the measurements and this time made sure to remove all Crossovers & High Pass / Low Pass Filtering (still includes SAM at 67%): Left Main's Speaker Only Right Main's Speaker Only Left Main's Speaker + Sub Right Main's Speaker + Sub Sub Only From the below I'm not really sure what good the Sub is adding or subtracting Mains - Red, Both - Green, Sub - Blue (to 20kHz) Mains - Red, Both - Green, Sub - Blue (to 1kHz) Left: Main Only - Red, Main + Sub - Green (to 1kHz) Right: Main Only - Red, Main + Sub - Green (to 1kHz)
  4. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Next batch of new measurements: Mains+Sub+SAM - 1. Left, 2. Right Mains+Sub-SAM - 1. Left, 2. Right Mains-Sub+SAM - 1. Left, 2. Right Mains Only - 1. Left, 2. Right Sub Only Crossover: Mains - 80Hz High, 2nd Filter Order, Sub - 80Hz Low, 2nd Filter Order Sub - 0deg Phase Also think I've managed to get the Volume (Frequency Levels) of the Mains & Sub a lot closer (set at ~75Hz via REW Pink Noise). Below a few graphs, and have put a couple Left Speaker only and Right Speaker only, which may be a wee bit easier to see the individual changes of each (with all looks a bit Spaghetti junction to me): REW Mains with & without Sub, and with & without SAM (10Hz to 20kHz) REW - Mains with & without Sub, and with & without SAM (10Hz to 1kHz) REW - Left Only with & without Sub, and with & without SAM (10Hz to 1kHz) REW - Right Only with & without Sub, and with & without SAM (10Hz to 1kHz) REW - Mains Only with Sub & SAM (10Hz to 1kHz)
  5. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Ok, keep methodical - change 5 things at a time and then work out what the change is . Only joking, makes sense to take small steps at a time, then easier to go backwards or forwards another small step if required (or if lucky stop and enjoy ). I will include that one next time 👍 I think I've been reading the graph back to front. I'm reading from the right (high) to left (low), whereas it's more likely it starts low Hz, up high to ~20Hz and flat(ish) to ~50Hz, then slopes down to ~100Hz and below (may not be the right way to read it, but may make more sense in my scrambled head). I've moved the Sub knob to 90deg Phase, , but also have another knob at back of my Sub1 for crossover I've moved to ~80Hz. To confuse it all the Devialet also has crossover filtering (can do Order 1 to 4). I've put Sub at 80Hz 2nd Order, but do I also do 80Hz 2nd Order for Mains? Devialet: Sub Settings Devialet: Mains - Sub Pre-Out on Setting
  6. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Dave Thanks mate, much appreciated I just stand behind my settee and run all the REW measurements on my laptop, never touch the microphone or anything else (microphone sits on top of the settee back, on a mini mic stand). Only time I move is when I have to go back and forth to either disconnect or reconnect the cables to do the different measurements (Mains + Sub, Mains - Sub, only Sub). I can give the measurements a go again, and this time will sit down and make sure I have it written down correctly what I need to do: Mains+Sub+SAM - 1. Left, 2. Right Mains+Sub-SAM - 1. Left, 2. Right Mains-Sub+SAM - 1. Left, 2. Right Mains Only - 1. Left, 2. Right Sub Only - 1. Left, 2. Right If Sub & mains out of sync then their fighting rather than embracing each other (that's me making sense of it ). As my Sub has a dial on the back could I try the Phase somewhere else rather than only 0deg or 180deg. If I tried 30deg or 120deg or other settings, would this do anything? Hopefully I can work out why their out-of-sync and if I can get them back together then things not looking to bad (I hope) 👍 Nice to know that the bad in my case (dip ~40Hz to ~120Hz) is actually good compared to others (not wishing it bad for others ). So I can either try adding a bit of EQ myself, and/or get my HAF Filters re-done for the new set-up. Below is a copy of my REW Chart with full range 2Hz to 20,000Hz, same measurements:
  7. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Changed the phase to 180deg and re-did measurements. Don't know what I did, but the mains themselves with no Sub now go until ~30Hz before significantly dropping off (not bad - I think ) PS - Listening to some music this now and Phil Collins - In the Air Tonight came on (I normally hit shuffle for most of my listening sessions). When the bit where the Gorilla starts thumping the drums I can feel the bass in my chest. Not silly/fluffy bass, but the bass where you can feel it and can hardly hear it (that's the best way I can explain it ). Don't think my measurements are very good with the big dip at ~40Hz to 120Hz, but the song sounded bloody good REW Measurements Mains with & without Sub, and with & without SAM
  8. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Dave Thanks for jumping in so quickly. When I moved the Sub from right to left handside of the room I had a go at redoing the Paradigm PBK Software Calibration ('Perfect Bass Kit' - realise you'll know what that is, just in case others not sure). I had troubles with the software, etc. and called their Product Support. When taking the readings you have to move the phase knob, etc. and then reset once done. The support chap mentioned that typically front of room position 0deg phase and rear room set to 180, so as my Sub is positioned at the front I set it to 0. Could be I should have set it to 180, so will give it another try over the weekend. Would the above also be a reason why the big dip at ~40Hz to ~120Hz has deepened (slightly wider also)? On a side note, do the measurements give any idea where I should set the Crossover for Sub/Mains. I currently have mains at 60Hz 2nd Order and Sub at 50Hz (thought someone mentioned best to have a gap in the overlay as then not fighting against each other). Cheers John Ps Just realised I may have did some measurements of Mains with & without the Sub REW Measurements Mains with & without Sub, Mains - Red, Both - Green, Blue - Sub
  9. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Pre & Post move measurements (including Sub itself). My inexperience is really showing, and from below it looks like the dip has increased, also not sure why 20Hz to 40Hz has increased in dB REW Measurements Combined, Old - Red, New - Green, Blue - Sub
  10. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Now that I've centred the TV / Display Cabinet I'll just have to use this as my new benchmark and forget about the old set-up readings (I'm not going to shift it back now, that would be committing Hi-Fi suicide with my good wife ). I'm at work this now (Perth time) and will take some new readings when I get home tonight. I'll take some readings with Left & Right Speakers no Sub, and also L+Sub & R+Sub and can then see if the Sub is doing anything. I suppose at the end of the day it makes sense to have my set-up equidistant, rather than the offset I had before. I have a wee bit of leeway where I can put the Sub, but my good lady would definitely like it to stay on the left hand side. I could try it behind or in front of the left speaker and see if there's much difference. I haven't tried changing any of the settings of the Sub, not sure if these would change anything (I suppose not, but just asking). Paradigm has there 'Perfect Bass Kit' digital room correction software, but I haven't re-ran that (it only works via Windows and I went Mac long time ago). Appreciate all your help
  11. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Noticed at the bottom of the SPL graph it shows a discrepancy of the dB's between the old and new readings (old L 66.6dB / R 65.5dB, new L 74.9dB / R 74.7 dB). Could I drop the Sound Level (Pink PN in REW) to 66dB and rerun the measurements so they are using a similar benchmark and see what it looks like from there?
  12. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Dave Same set-up as previous that's why I wasn't sure what had happened (L+Sub+SAM Filter, R+Sub+SAM Filter, all settings exactly the same). Now that isn't to say I haven't bumped a knob on the back of the Sub when moving it, but not that I was aware of. Taking the extra ~5dB out of the equation is there anything else (good or bad) that's obvious within the new measurements
  13. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Ok, so I moved my speakers & listening position yesterday (my wife has been very good about it). Speakers now pretty much centred in the room, with Sub now moved to the left (my wife would prefer the Sub over their for WAF, so off course I did as she asked). Only bugger was having to redo the wall bracket for the TV (75" so 2 man job to move the TV) and the bloody sound from the TV has went a bit wacky. I thought at first it may be the Toslink cable from the TV to my Devialet has been partly damaged, but I tried another cable and had the same issue I can still hear words, music, etc., but it's as if the tones being received are all higglety pigglety (I'll need to look into that, as it's a real pisser at the moment). My new dimensions are: Speakers from Side Walls: Left - 92cm Right - 93cm Speakers Apart - 216cm Speakers from Front Wall: Left - 111cm Right - 111cm My Room - Front (before) My Room - Front (after) I've taken a couple more REW readings tonight. Only 1 each for the Left & Right speakers, and realise I'll need to do at least 6 a piece to get a better overlay, but just for now it gives a comparison. One thing I can't understand is I set the SPL meter at 75dB Pink Noise for both old & new measurements, but there seems to be about 5dB more with the new readings (why that is I wouldn't have a bl__dy clue). To my unexpert eye it looks like the smaller dip around 200Hz has smoothed out a bit, but the large dip at 40Hz - 100Hz is actually a bit deeper (not any wider). I also did some Spectrogram graphs, but these are quadruple Dutch to me (sorry Hipper, I haven't a clue what they mean even after your explanation). Also did the Waterfall graphs, this time quadruple Swahili to me REW Measurements Combined, Old - Blue, New - Green REW Measurements Spectrogram, Old - Left Speaker REW Measurements Spectrogram, New - Left Speaker REW Measurements Waterfall, Old - Left Speaker REW Measurements Waterfall, New - Left Speaker
  14. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    AudioGeek I'm a bit of a beginner when it comes to room acoustics and REW (you couldn't guess it could you ), so all the info from Dave is gold to someone like myself (hopefully some others get something from it too). Even to myself it looks like the hole at 60-80Hz is partly filled in, so hoping if I tweak positioning of the Speakers & Sub I can get a wee bit more of an improvement (realise no guarantees here). To me it would make sense to try and smooth out the bumps / lumps / holes physically before looking at any new DSP. As you will realise I don’t really understand this stuff hence why I got on-board with Thierry and his HAF Filters, but the info I’m getting from this topic is a big help in my understanding especially when it comes to physical layout of speakers / listening position, etc. Regarding the Sub I currently have my mains set to crossover at 50Hz 2nd Filter Order and the Sub at 40Hz 2nd Filter Order (I’m sure I read it’s better to let them work into each other with a gap rather than them both trying to compete against each other if the same crossover setting). So do you think I should increase the mains to 60Hz roll-off and Sub roll-in at 50Hz? ML5 to ML3, for myself the ML3’s were a great speaker, but my ML5’s play ‘everything’ that’s thrown at them, be that good or bad (****-in / ****-out is so true with the ML5’s). The biggest change I notice is the ‘extra’ notes, sounds, etc. I can hear with the ML5’s. I don’t know how many times I thought to myself “I never heard that note /sound before in that song”, and it happens all the time. To me the mid / top end is just so clear, but I’m hopeless at putting thoughts into words so don’t really get what 3d imaging, soundstage, (all that jargon) actually means in relation to the sound. Not that I want to get any back slapping, but it would be nice if someone with more knowledge could hear my set up and give me some feedback (good or bad, all feedback is welcome). My wife’s thought of hi-fi is listening to Spotify on here iPhone so I don’t really get much feedback from her (I love her to bits, so each to their own). Regarding HAF filters, and convolution / up-sampling in HQP I’ve never tried it, but would be good to give it a try, but was hoping to get my set-up better before experimenting again. Speakers all set, Devialet amps all good, and I’ve just got a new Antipodes CX last week so all good for the music server (I don’t have phono and too much hassle & money to get into that now). Regarding needing serious processor grunt for HQP the CX should be able to handle that (I assume) so happy to give it a go. Appreciate all the info
  15. Celts88

    Acoustic Basics of my Room

    Just want to say what a great forum this is and the info given to the 'unknowledgeable' like myself is just fandabbydosey (anyone with Scottish background will know the meaning). Special thanks goes out to you Dave 👍👍👍 as I'm learning so much just from this topic, and the fact you can get some of the simple info over to a dunderheid like myself is
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