Gordon Macfarlane Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Guys I realise this could be a contentious topic but it would be great if we could discuss it like gentlemen. From my own listening I have no idea whether my system is accurate or not but it is fun to listen to across a wide range of music and doesn't seem particularly coloured to my relatively experienced ears. I often get the feeling of being at a live performance if the recording supports this. Edited June 17, 2013 by Ozcall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I target getting instruments and voices to sound as realistic as I can, but what might sound realistic to myself, may not to another person. But I will adjust things to what sounds good to myself, if I dislike something. I'm not even sure what "accurate" means, it seems to be different for different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Macfarlane Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 I tend to agree Ian. One of the biggest probs on the internet seems to be having a common understanding of what terms mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yamaha_man Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I have no idea if my system is accurate but then again nor do I care. As long as it sounds good to MY ears I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candyflip Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I actually KNOW my current system is inaccurate, as my previous one was much better at it. That's OK - with the brain filter on of "it's alright for now, but don't judge any new source coming in to harshly", I'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Macfarlane Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 You bring up an interesting point Candy. Imo the less work the brain has to do in processing the sound the more we enjoy the performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnA Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 these day i prefer a system that is engaging rather then accurate. I doubt anyone can claim their system is truly accurate, all they can say it that it sounds great to them.. I have heard many systems in my travels and of late have heard some that just suck me into the music, and i find i am enjoying the music rather then sitting there wondering if it sounds like a real gibson les paul guitar using Elixir Nanoweb 10's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candyflip Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 You bring up an interesting point Candy. Imo the less work the brain has to do in processing the sound the more we enjoy the performance. I couldn't agree more - weak systems such as mine FORCE your brain to do more work, which is completely against the point of all this. Can't afford the alternative, for now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankn Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 This looks like another attempt to start the "measurement" vs "sounds good" war. If you were a component designer, say amplifier or speaker then I'm sure they might say give me an oscilloscope - I put in a tone/waveform/etc (call it "Y") to my component and I measure the output as "X" - how far X duplicates or deviates from Y = the accuracy Then you get the subjective measurement (ears/brain/room interaction/etc) - they might say is it "nice/pleasing/engaging/doesn't sound real etc" There is not necessarily a point where the two methods meet... so off we go again As long as the individual enjoys their system that is what counts. No system is perfect as previous posts alude, especially as brains are involved....they come along with all sorts of preconceived expectations, bias, good days-bad days etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Macfarlane Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 I couldn't agree more - weak systems such as mine FORCE your brain to do more work, which is completely against the point of all this. Can't afford the alternative, for now.... Deffo been there quite a few times. I have started from nothing a couple of times now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Macfarlane Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 This looks like another attempt to start the "measurement" vs "sounds good" war. If you were a component designer, say amplifier or speaker then I'm sure they might say give me an oscilloscope - I put in a tone/waveform/etc (call it "Y") to my component and I measure the output as "X" - how far X duplicates or deviates from Y = the accuracy Then you get the subjective measurement (ears/brain/room interaction/etc) - they might say is it "nice/pleasing/engaging/doesn't sound real etc" There is not necessarily a point where the two methods meet... so off we go again As long as the individual enjoys their system that is what counts. No system is perfect as previous posts alude, especially as brains are involved....they come along with all sorts of preconceived expectations, bias, good days-bad days etc frankn , it may look like that but it was not my intent. I don't believe in any single path to 'enlightenment'. I measure where I can and I listen. I want the best sound I can afford and so am happy to take onboard and test for myself any relevant info. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffnutz Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I test my system using master tapes that I recorded and am very familiar with. If it can get to what I heard in the studio, then I'm happy. It helps that I used Tannoy dual concentric monitors for the tracking, mixing and mastering and that my home system also uses Tannoy DCs. Speakers put more of a 'sonic signature' on sound than any other component. Does that mean it's 'accurate' for every recording? Hell no, but it's better than developing with no reference points at all other that sales hyperbole and misinformation; as is traditional. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hifiplus Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Listen to live orchestra & choir, then go home and listen. Ive found this is the only way for me to judge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chill3 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 90% of what I listen to, is music that is delivered live via amps and speakers ! So no not the same, better in some ways, worse in others All ways will be utill I get a bigger room, a bank of Marshal amps and some huge JBLs and some bass bins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 IMO there is no way to tell. I listen to a lot of live music, if it is Rock it is venue dependant and amplified, no reference possible; If it is Classical it is venue dependant, no reference possible; If it is Jazz or Folk they are both venue dependant, no reference possible; The only possible way would be to have the musicians recorded in your room, highly improbable. I don't believe in measurements as they are both venue and system match dependant. If it sounds right to me it is right, or as right as I am ever going to achieve. Ken 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Gordon, my 'system' low budget that it is is sitting in mothballs downstairs as I go through the pain of refurbing my library/pc/listening room/cave. I'm staring at the screen as I type this in an empty dirty dusty room mid refurb and all I have to listen too is my digital music on the pc running through my Piccolo active mini speakers with built in DAC and a 6Moons review that drips flowery language like a late spring garden. This is them >>>Click They're set up at ear level on my desk propped up by a bunch of GOT books(GOT...Game of Thrones) as the actual speakers are tiny. Accurate? Yes, I think they are when taken in context of what I'm listening to and what I expect to hear. I can reach out at arms length while comfortably seated and adjust height and toe in toe out and then at a click I change the settings on VLC player(not for the faint hearted) to manage FLAC better or adjust for those odd files that sit in between mp3 and FLAC and of course direct ripped music straight from my CD's. They sit less than a metre apart and they are no more than 700mm directly in front of me toe'd in to my ears...a very tight triangle and the sound is enveloping, it really is. If I could get this kind of reproduction while comfortably seated in my room in the future then I'd recognise that I have indeed a fairly accurate and encompassing system. God only knows if that will ever eventuate but I'm hoping I'll get close one day. This tiny pair of speakers because of their positioning and importantly my position just do it at the moment...move away and get up from the desk chair and it diminishes, goes away. I'm hearing feet shuffle around the pedals of a piano, a shift of bum on a seat, a sniffle as Maria Callas battles a cold, Frank Ocean licking his lips as he tries to do a white LA voice as he bags the super rich or pays out Islam for hating black homosexuals like him and his hands move over the cans on his ears and the engineer never cut it out of the final takes. I've never listened to any of these artists live but to me the reproduction from where I'm seated and listening sounds 'accurate'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Its all in the detail! What is accurate to me, can totally conflict what you take is accurate, accuracy may not even mean that its audiably pleasing to your ear! To measure the accuracy of a component or a rig, you must 1st record a performance, have the equipment to record it accurate as possible and then play it back on a reference system that can duplicate the recording as accurate as possible, this will require equipment that is transparent to the signal that ideally cannot introduce variations from its own discrepency. Once you have done that then you can compare it to your own rig to hear the audiable differences! To me, a component that sounds good must also make the grades in technical measurements and that may not be everyones cup of tea. However I have compared a lot of components that includes right down to the passive through the hole or SMD components, and in all cases I prefer the component that has a better electrical specification, so go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowkeyOperations Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 No doubt it's difficult to know what accurate is, but the system I use in my music studio I think is relatively accurate. A Metric Halo studio grade DAC into active Neumann KH120 nearfields in a room with 4 big bass traps and treatment at first reflection points. If mixing decisions made on them translate well to other systems, then there is a degree of accuracy. Recording vocals gives a bit of help too, although you get the microphones sound too. When set up in the living room on my Unitiqute they are certainly neutral. The PMC DB1s that I use are certainly more coloured, particularly around the 100hz region. Stereophile magazines measurements suggest that too, although room nodes and wall proximity in an untreated room will have a big effect in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddisgeek Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 No, my speakers were designed in the 1960's, I like colour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I couldn't agree more - weak systems such as mine FORCE your brain to do more work, which is completely against the point of all this. Can't afford the alternative, for now.... Yup, would be great to have unlimited funds for this hobby, but It's a journey (where have I heard that before ) to the point we want to be at and takes time. I tend to be critical of my system....but getting less so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregWormald Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 It seems to me that an accurate system should present to me a close reproduction of what is on the original source--CD, LP, computer file... Whether that file is an accurate (close) version of the original is something I have little or no control over--except by trying different versions. So I listen to lots of music and aim for a reproduction where the instruments and voices sound like what I remember real live instruments and voices sound like, and the music engages me the way the best live shows do. The closer I can get to this the better I like it. Greg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joz Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 So people is there a thing as "To Accurate"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankn Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I think you mean "too" accurate Joz. Personally I think not however that would have to be true of all components, recording, playback source, amplification, speakers and all the interconnects etc, and have the romm treated so it was neutral(or al least the total response (system+room)). Then you'd have to be sitting in the correct position to listen. Then you might notice how many "off" recordings you have, so, perhaps you'd go and purchase some tone controls or a multi-band graphic equaliser or perhaps you "tune" your system to make many recordings sound better. In other words - IMHO it comes down to the recording 1st. They your brain, mood & ears. If it sounds good to you then your system is fine. Most of us always say we would like better but have difficulty verbalising better. Sometimes I sit listening to my system and think I'd like more bass on this or that track, or I think is the soundstage good enough and I spiral off in to things I might do, the effort to try an alternative set-up (no-one at home wants to help me move stuff around and around), how WAF would this be etc... Then I'm away on business, not listening to much music or in hotels listening to bedside radio, headphones on planes etc. I get home and after settling back into home life, switch the stereo on, let it warm up, sit down and "wow" blown away all over again - immersed in the music/vocals and I think you know this is pretty special.... then several weeks later....... and I think I'd like more bass on this or that track, or I think is the soundstage good enough and I spiral off in to things I might do.....you know what I mean This is what makes this hobby so interesting AND sometimes so frustrating 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I think my system is fairly accurate. I judge this with a microphone, my ears and my brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest myrantz Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 What happens if your wife asks you if her butt looks big/flat in that dress? Do you measure her butt with a tape rule, take 3 measures to get an average. And then compare the results with a butt chart and tell her the answer she probably don't want to know? Or you just give her a hug, and say "No, you look absolutely beautiful!".. How big is big. And how flat is flat? :blink: I'm so lucky my wife never asked me this question (so far)... And I probably need to eavesdrop on my co-workers less :mellow: ... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Accuracy is only limited by the imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts