Addicted to music Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 So the pot is not actually being used at all or are there other signals used to drive the volume chip ? cheers Correct, isn't that wonderful, no wear or tear and imbalance minimised to almost perfection.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jventer Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 So the pot is not actually being used at all or are there other signals used to drive the volume chip ? cheers Clay explained this to me when I visited him. The volume control sends signals to the Muses chip which does the actual volume control. (How it works technically is beyond me.) Sounds like a good idea though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 Sorry I should have explained with a bit more detail. Addicted to music & Jventer are spot on. The motorised volume control sends a varying voltage to micro controller which then controls the Muses chip which actually controls the level of the audio signal. It is a very short signal path all at the back of the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Quick update. Coding all complete. I ended up changing to a higher quality linear Alps pot which has a nice smooth volume control range. I finally dropped it into a good system for a proper listen. Straight up it sounded pretty good, four hours later - holy snapping ducks! I know I'm biased but it really sounded good. I loved the transparent sound of the LDR/LED optical control in the Konvertor but this leaves it for dead. Perfect channel tracking, no micro level jumps or clicks & perfect balance. Definately worth all hours of coding to get the Muses working properly. I need new boards due to the different pot & a few other tweaks so I will order them in the next few days. Probably two weeks away for a final product. Next step is to AB it against some serious preamps. Bills Truth & my mates AMR DP777 Spring to mind. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Looking forward to seeing it Clay. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) REALLY looking forward to the XLR-out version with sub woofer crossover. (Clay thinks- Jeeezuz). Edited October 6, 2015 by Darren69 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffinator Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 REALLY looking forward to the XLR-out version with sub woofer crossover. (Clay thinks- Jeeezuz). And the HT bypass... [emoji6] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Clay...and the HT bypass. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Hey you guys forgot to ask for a display, actually that is already sorted. Maybe I should just bring the upmarket one out first with all the above features, what do you think? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Hey you guys forgot to ask for a display, actually that is already sorted. Maybe I should just bring the upmarket one out first with all the above features, what do you think? Just give it the best to hit the market with, then you won't require an update for a while, what do ya reckon? A a pre with XLR, sub woofer bypass, HT bypass..... Soon it will look like this: https://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xmc-1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) @@Addicted to music ha! I thought that as I was typing. How to turn Clay dac into one the same as all the others. ...but they wont sound anywhere near as good. @@Gieseler Audio funnily enough, a display wouldn't matter to me...maybe a little light showing what source was active, that's about all that's required. All suggestions aside, I don't know how the things I have suggested affect your original design/introduce noise etc as I have as much electrical knowledge as a pile of cow dung. I would tend to agree with Addicted to music's thoughts. Edited October 6, 2015 by Darren69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) Out of interest I checked out the above linked equipment & it looks most impressive however on close inspection thanks to their hires photos I have discovered a weakness obi one. Parts quality. Resistors, they look like the one cent Jaycar baulk pack stuff. Output stage decouple caps, not a lot & of generic/unknown brand type. Bypass/filter caps, all polyester. Relays, budget Chinese. Now they are certainly not alone in this but in comparison my products have primitive basic controls but my parts quality is miles ahead. Resistors, all inline signal path are Japanese Koa Speer type (Kiwame supplier) Decouple caps, I use decent values, lots of them & arround audio section they are all high quality Elna Silmic II's. As recommended by Nelson Pass.Bypass/filter caps, all top grade German Wima polypropylene foil types. Relays, all high quality signal grade & Swiss made. Now I know all this sounds a bit pedantic but at the end of the day all these parts have a cumealitive effect on sound quality. Anyway I just thought I would point this out as details like this are often missed in a quick comparison of products. Interestingly NAD in their M51 used rather expensive polystyrene thru hole caps for all audio post DAC filtering & decouple areas. PS extraction link for intel related to above comments http://emotiva.com/products/dacs/electronics/dacs/stealth-dc-1 PPS I do love though the common mode mains input filter & snubber Edited October 6, 2015 by Gieseler Audio 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I don't think any comparison was being made Clay (not really apples and apples) but thanks for the info. Yes, what you describe and good power treatment within the box make a huge difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 Sorry guys, I misread the post, didn't mean to compare it. It was 6AM & I hadn't had my coffee!!! At least you know I like using good components. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Quick up date. The new boards have arrived so I had one up & running yesterday. Even without any run in time it sounded very good. The volume control has a nice range with about two o’clock as a good listening level; this can be changed by altering the gain. Good enough to take home for a test? Definitely as this would be the real test. OMG I was totally shocked at how much the sound improved compared to the Klein DAC directly into the power amp. This was a total surprise as I have a well run in SE Klein DAC at home & its output stage should be perfect to drive a power amp. I went back & forwards a couple of times comparing but there was no doubt about it, the DAC/pre combo was way better than just the DAC. Maybe bypassing Jriver’s software level control had something to do with it as well. The improvement was certainly a major step up in my system, bass tightens up, soundstage separation & resolution was in a different league. I know this is all subjective & I am totally biased but IMHO this is a dam fine sounding preamp. If I can get some panels finished in time I will do a release this weekend with the new Power Supplies. There will be photos & pricing then. Everything in stock so I should be able to ship units in about seven days. The only snag is the Muses level control chip is in very short supply. I did manage to track down the last ten at Digikey which I immediately purchased. There is more stock coming but not until January next year. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jventer Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Quick up date. The new boards have arrived so I had one up & running yesterday. Even without any run in time it sounded very good. The volume control has a nice range with about two o’clock as a good listening level; this can be changed by altering the gain. Good enough to take home for a test? Definitely as this would be the real test. OMG I was totally shocked at how much the sound improved compared to the Klein DAC directly into the power amp. This was a total surprise as I have a well run in SE Klein DAC at home & its output stage should be perfect to drive a power amp. I went back & forwards a couple of times comparing but there was no doubt about it, the DAC/pre combo was way better than just the DAC. Maybe bypassing Jriver’s software level control had something to do with it as well. The improvement was certainly a major step up in my system, bass tightens up, soundstage separation & resolution was in a different league. I know this is all subjective & I am totally biased but IMHO this is a dam fine sounding preamp. If I can get some panels finished in time I will do a release this weekend with the new Power Supplies. There will be photos & pricing then. Everything in stock so I should be able to ship units in about seven days. The only snag is the Muses level control chip is in very short supply. I did manage to track down the last ten at Digikey which I immediately purchased. There is more stock coming but not until January next year. This is very interesting. It is actually one of the areas I still want to try in my systems. Is there any reason why a preamp makes a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acg Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 This is very interesting. It is actually one of the areas I still want to try in my systems. Is there any reason why a preamp makes a difference? My guess would be twofold: like Clay says JRiver digital volume control and now not having to use it; or some issue with Clays amplifier input impedance which is better handled by the the output stage of the preamp rather than the output stage of the dac. Digital volume control can be awful if there is not enough headroom and attenuation is too great, so that may have been an issue for Clay, but I would not rule out the ability of the different output stages to drive the amplifier. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Clay, am here if you need me to test for sub crossover capabilities. Just here to help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Thanks Darren, I will bear than in mind - love the avatar. Just sipping a cold beer & having a listen to Kate Ceberano Bittersweet, preamp definitely staying - can't go back now. Enjoying the simple hardware remote again compared to the software slider. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill125812 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Very interested Clay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Deleted. Edited November 10, 2015 by bhobba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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