~Spyne~ Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 What kind of "upgraded" Klein is this - a precursor to the "Limited" coming soon or something entirely different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 What kind of "upgraded" Klein is this - a precursor to the "Limited" coming soon or something entirely different? I purchased an early version of the Klein from Clay but he is always tweaking and offered to bring it up to his new version. He has two versions - a limited and a standard - he could have upgraded it to either but I chose the Limited. That the one I picked up yesterday, but Clay was kind enough to also lend me a standard AKM DAC purely for comparison and I picked that up as well. Most people seem to prefer the AKM version, but a few preferred the PCM. I have done a preliminary comparison over at Steve U's place that I will do a separate post on following this. Thanks Bill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Hi Chris - thanks for the tips. Actually ordered a hot air rework station on the weekend so looking forward to trying some new technique's with mounting the DAC & S/PDIF chips. I will definitely practice on some dud Denon & NAD HDMI pcb's first! I love HAKKO but their new hot air pencil is around $1100 so I'm giving a Atten 850D a go first http://www.gratten.eu/solder-rework/at850d-hot-air-rework-station.html Element 14 has the Metcal HTC2-120 for about $650 so if the Chinese job is no good I will probably go with that - what do you think? Cheers Clay Hi Clay, Bit off the topic... I've been procrastinating but I would be interested in what your thoughts are after using hot air reworks. I solder SMD as well and my eyesight is failing me big time, I have to take my glasses off and move in to see these tiny suckers because I don't have a big stationary magnifier, only because there too much crap everywhere. I'm about to purchase a real cheap one just to have a play! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenehan Audio Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Good evening fellow philes I can report that the Klein DAC Limited prototype that I am playing with in the factory at the moment sounds just plain excellent . it drives my upgraded Prima Luna Dialogue Premium power amp perfectly. Clay tells me there's more to happen to this beast so he'll be picking it up in a day or two for upgrades. All in all it's performance top to bottom is superb ! very dynamic,smooth and alive. Although I didn't listen to any high rez files when comparing the 1794 version to the AKM version I can report a significant preference for the 1794 version. Your not going to be able to build enough of these yourself mate !! Regards Mike Lenehan LenehanAudio 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Hi Guys I popped on over to Steve U's place with the two DAC's. One was my PCM DAC that is now at Limited level. The other was a newly minted standard AKM Klein. A number of people have heard both and most preferred the AKM. Here is information about his system: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/60562-well-you-have-to-start-somewhere/page-3 Steve is comparing my Killer to his Direct Stream at the moment. They are two entirely different DAC's but either is a tough test for both of the Klein DAC's being statement DAC's that are much more expensive. This was a quick initial listen so we chose one DAC to compare them to, the Direct Stream. It has been upgraded to the latest firmware and with each upgrade it definitely is a step forward. I have heard the DAC many times at Steve's and down at Southport Hi Fi. At Steve's in his system I always liked it, but initially at Southport Hi Fi I wasn't that impressed - I thought an early version of the Klein better. However with each Firmware upgrade it got better and their were upgrades to the server so that now I think it pretty darn good. First up was the AKM DAC. It sounded pretty good - but for me slightly dry and a bit thin. For comparison we tried a turntable. Much richer and more organic and easily better. Then was the Direct Stream. It wasn't quite as organic as the turntable, but still pretty good. It was however obviously more detailed with killer bass. IMHO it was better than the turntable but its the analogue vs digital thing - I am in the digital camp. We went back to the AKM - it was obviously thinner, dryer, bass shy, and lacking in detail. Sorry not in the same class for me - but its hardly an earth shattering revelation - this is a $750.00 vs a $7.5k DAC. OK - next was my PCM Limited DAC. It was quite impressive - organic, not quite the detail of the Direct Stream (DS) - but still pretty good, bass - strong, not thin or dry. This thing was actually close to the Direct Stream. Yes the DS was better - greater detail - but other areas were close. We have a giant killer. This was just a quick initial listen. I left it with Steve who will be doing further comparisons over the next few weeks. But if you want to check it out Steve is happy for people to come and listen on his system. Southport Hi Fi sell both the DS and the Limited DAC - you can check it out down there as well. Stay tuned. Thanks Bill Edited February 25, 2015 by bhobba 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Just before I gave the AKM Klein DAC to Bill I swapped the output devices from the Metal Can TI LME's to some new Analogue Devices (SMA's on adaptors) I received. I did this as I felt in some setups it was too laid back. Anyway with the new devices in the top end picked up quite bit but I thought the bass may have dropped off a bit. I might see if Bill can drop it back & then I will refit the Metal Can LME's. That what was in when Doggie listened & he loved it. Got to stop tweaking! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve u Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I can drop it back if you want Clay, but with about 15 hours on it now, I would not say that it is light in the bass department. Seems to be opening up nicely now. Haven't played the PCM again, giving this one a chance to bed down a little. Cheers, Steve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jventer Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 @@bhobba and @@Gieseler Audio What is the difference in specs and price between standard and limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Hi Steve - that's good news. The Analogue Devices that are in it now are very highly rated & should stack up against the previous TI LME's without a doubt. I know in the factory it was often at least three or four days before any of the DAC's seems to reach maxium sound quality. I found the bass from the AKM version a bit deceiving, the first reaction was that it was a little light on & then the more I listened it seems be extending down very low in natural way with no boom. Are you feeding it upsampled or hi Rez material, I set Jriver to output 192k on everything & that worked well. Johannes - hey how is the Mac Mini PSU going? Klein DAC Limited price - not quite finalised but probably $1200 to $1300 I will shortly start a dedicated topic for the Limited but briefly here is the difference. Compared to the standard it has different I/V & output stage with no feedback. I/V is using a diamond CFB device. The output stage is much beefer too. It would actually drive headphones but in this model I have adjusted it for line level out. There are a lot more components needed (compared to standard) to eliminate dc offset ect so it takes quite a lot longer to build. Also it will only be available through Hi-Fi dealers & not via my webshop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jventer Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Johannes - hey how is the Mac Mini PSU going? I am waiting for you to offer: mac mini mods mac mini power supplies usb spdif converters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) Let me think about it - I'll do a bit of R&D on it & get back to you Edited March 1, 2015 by Gieseler Audio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sum1 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Just curious, Is there a picture of the plug pack? Since its a linear one I'm assuming its quite bulky that it might take up 2 slots of power board space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yes it is a bit bulky & you usually lose the socket next to it on a power strip unless it is a small plug beside it. I have actually found a new one that has the 240 v plug on a cable & it has a higher capacity so should be better. I just have to do a bit of testing but it looks like I will swap over to that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Hi Guys Just a quick update on the AKM. I was over Steve U's place for another reason and had a quick listen to the AKM version. It sounding a lot less dry - just maybe a slight bit of dryness now. Didn't get a chance for an in depth comparison with the limited - but Steve has kindly offered me the opportunity to come on over for a better comparison later. Hopefully I can report in a few days. Thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I was pretty fond of some of the older AKM chips like the AK4396 and one a couple of version previous, I haven't heard the latter ones though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sum1 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Hi Guys Just a quick update on the AKM. I was over Steve U's place for another reason and had a quick listen to the AKM version. It sounding a lot less dry - just maybe a slight bit of dryness now. Didn't get a chance for an in depth comparison with the limited - but Steve has kindly offered me the opportunity to come on over for a better comparison later. Hopefully I can report in a few days. Thanks Bill Is this the standard AKM version that was previously mentioned to sound like a modded oppo in a meet awhile ago? It will be interesting to have another comparison of the standard PCM and AKM instead of comparing it with the limited edition PCM version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Is this the standard AKM version that was previously mentioned to sound like a modded oppo in a meet awhile ago? It will be interesting to have another comparison of the standard PCM and AKM instead of comparing it with the limited edition PCM version An AKM version was at the Oppo GTG. Mike thought it was slightly better than the Oppo - I thought the Oppo had a slight edge. I wouldn't say it sounded like the Oppo. The Oppo has a sweet slightly laid back sound - the Klein is more vibrant and alive. But it has been tweaked since then. This is the version Clay was kind enough to lend me when I picked up my Limited PCM that had been upgraded to that from an earlier version I owned. Clay may be able to lend me the normal PCM version next time I am down there - but that depends on what he has available. Thanks Bill Edited March 17, 2015 by bhobba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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