Ruffter Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Hi All, Thought I’d continue this thread rather then start another, but chasing some advice on sub integration specific to my setup. Room is medium size, 4m x 7m, stereo along the short wall, with the right hand side long wall opening up halfway along from the stereo into other living areas. I went from old Dali Ikon 6’s to new Focal 706 standmounts (some WAF in there as well). Overall I am happy with the sound but with one gripe, I need some bass reinforcement. Source is an Exposure 2010s2 which isn’t going to change anytime soon. I can see two options at this stage: 1) Get a sub (budget maybe $1000-$1500) and run it off the Exposure’s pre-outs. This means I will still be running the focals full range and into lower frequencies then they like. This is where I come unstuck a little with this idea as I’ve read a lot about integrating subs and know it can be done pretty well however have read that for the best result I would need to roll my mains off above the lower limits of the 6.5 inch mid woofer. I can’t see an easy way of high passing the focals as I have an integrated; I’d need to sell the exposure and get separates which is not going to get budget approval from the minister for finances. 2) Sell the focals and get a floorstander/larger three-way bookshelf. I got them for a good deal and am pretty confident I could get back my buy in. Then if I add in the same budget for the subwoofer as above, I’d be in the territory of something like Adelaide Audio’s summoner 1093SQTL. This gets me two 10 inch bass drivers in a TL config, with dedicated 5-inch midranges. Is there anything I am missing (an option 3)? Thoughts on options 1 vs 2? The short of it is that I’d be happy to keep the focals with a sub, but they won’t be high-passed, in this scenario am I better off getting a large 3-way floorstander sans sub? Cheers, Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinbogan Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 I have a similar size room and run Triangle Titus EZ with a REL T7i (which is roughly within your budget). The woofer are 5.25 in and the lower limit on the Triangles is 55Hz. I use the high level outputs, ie, directly from the speaker terminals, to the sub. There is a Speakon cable provided with the unit to connect this way. The sub has a very high impedance so it doesn't load the amplifier. I followed REL's setup procedure which relies on approximate settings then adjusting by ear rather than matching frequencies on the crossovers. It all works really well and I'm very happy with the sound. I'm sure there must be other subs that use a similar arrangement as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Dculture Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I'm running a pair of bookshelves with a separate sub (REL T7i too). Like Kevin said, setting up is straight forward. Reason I went this way and not floorstanding was because of the sub bass. If running passive floorstanding and I don't like the bass, I felt I will be screwed and I would then need to bi-amp or run an EQ to adjust to the way I like it. If I ran the REL, I could play with the crossover point and the gain level from the subwoofer. But that's my preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 On 19/06/2020 at 9:24 AM, Ruffter said: Hi All, Thought I’d continue this thread rather then start another, but chasing some advice on sub integration specific to my setup. Room is medium size, 4m x 7m, stereo along the short wall, with the right hand side long wall opening up halfway along from the stereo into other living areas. I went from old Dali Ikon 6’s to new Focal 706 standmounts (some WAF in there as well). Overall I am happy with the sound but with one gripe, I need some bass reinforcement. Source is an Exposure 2010s2 which isn’t going to change anytime soon. I can see two options at this stage: 1) Get a sub (budget maybe $1000-$1500) and run it off the Exposure’s pre-outs. This means I will still be running the focals full range and into lower frequencies then they like. This is where I come unstuck a little with this idea as I’ve read a lot about integrating subs and know it can be done pretty well however have read that for the best result I would need to roll my mains off above the lower limits of the 6.5 inch mid woofer. I can’t see an easy way of high passing the focals as I have an integrated; I’d need to sell the exposure and get separates which is not going to get budget approval from the minister for finances. 2) Sell the focals and get a floorstander/larger three-way bookshelf. I got them for a good deal and am pretty confident I could get back my buy in. Then if I add in the same budget for the subwoofer as above, I’d be in the territory of something like Adelaide Audio’s summoner 1093SQTL. This gets me two 10 inch bass drivers in a TL config, with dedicated 5-inch midranges. Is there anything I am missing (an option 3)? Thoughts on options 1 vs 2? The short of it is that I’d be happy to keep the focals with a sub, but they won’t be high-passed, in this scenario am I better off getting a large 3-way floorstander sans sub? Cheers, Andrew Floorstanders will rarely if ever give the same effect as a separate subwoofer, unless they are bohemith with equal to match big amps. Your Focal are a ported design with about 55Hz at -3dB low frequency extension and if you plug the ports with dense foam (perhaps supplied with them) the extension would go up to maybe around 70-80Hz giving a natural roll off similar to what a HT amp does. Set the sub to lowish crossover say around 40-50Hz and play around to find what sounds best, including speaker position. Also, check to see that the pre out on the amp to sub will work as expected, it should, not cut off something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irek Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I prefer 2.1 or 2.2 system. Not advertising anything but I auditioned Rel T7i 2 weeks ago. it was quickly set up at around 55Hz without any dsp or room correction. It just disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoHo Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Using a sub with bass limited speakers can work really well. If you like the sound of your existing speakers then adding good bass will be an obvious improvement. But to get good bass from a single subwoofer can require some work. You may need to move any of the sub, speakers and listening position around to get acceptable bass ie not lumpy or boomy or weak. You do have to put in some effort to get it to work well. If you are able to do some measurements it will make this process much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffter Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Thanks for the advice everyone, maybe I am overthinking it! Wading through lots of posts I ended up thinking I needed DSP to get the best integration (24db filters) and to also take the strain of the lower frequencies off the standmount speakers, which led me to thinking the more achievable option at this time (due to the buy in for DSP etc) may be a well designed three way with big woofers. It sounds as though I should try blending a sub into the natural roll-off of my speakers, and can try plugging the port as well (they did not come with plugs but I can make some). Then in future if I want DSP I can add that down the track. Thanks everyone! I'll have a look at the Rel's, I also see the JL dominion ads all over SNA, they look very wife friendly. Decisions decisions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffter Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Just to confirm, but if I wish to high pass filter the signal to my standmounts with my current integrated, the only way would be to buy a sub with a plate amplifier with a speaker level input and filtered speaker level output? Otherwise I am looking at getting separates and applying the filter at the pre amp (if digital DAC/pre) or between the pre and power amp? Cheers, Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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