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NAD M51 & C390DD Owners & Discussion Thread


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 Thanks for your fast reply, missed it.

I did have a M51 previously which I sold due to lack of use. I did like it and was contemplating buying another, however given it is a 5 hear old design somebody else should have come up with an improvement by now.

I would be interested in the audio performance, using files from a nas device. The volume controls aren't important to me.

Edited by LockedoutofCraigC
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Guest scumbag

I personally went from an nad m51 to the Klein dac and found it a big step up.  I can only imagine what the Klein 2 would bring to the table. Clay's implementation of the akm chip is excellent. A great dac chip surrounded by great components in a well thought out design. 

Mark 

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24 minutes ago, scumbag said:

I personally went from an nad m51 to the Klein dac and found it a big step up.  I can only imagine what the Klein 2 would bring to the table. Clay's implementation of the akm chip is excellent. A great dac chip surrounded by great components in a well thought out design. 

Mark 

 

I have to say I compared the initial klein DAC to an Electra.  There wasn't a lot of difference between the two but the Klien was value for money as the Electra was 4X the price.  

The klein had to be returned because it was a loaner.  My next visit was comparing the Electra to the M51, no Klein was present and have to say that the Electra was a more forward and rounded presentation. But there was something that the M51 presented that the Electra missed entirely.   There were 3 sets of ears  there and agreed that the Klein was better to the ears than the M51.  Whether they heard what the M51 added, I didn't get the chance to asked, because I asked myself was it worth the mentioned!

The Klein 2 would slightly improve on that,  but I'm only guessing. 

It be interesting what the Gustard version of the AKM4497 dual chip would bring to the table.  Don't forget this unit also has a resistor ladder relay based volume control, and what interest me is that it has XLR.  I know what everyone thinks, but I find XLR a huge advantage over RCA, especially for a stock DAC chip because the output is XLR and not single ended.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello again.
I have been doing some tests and I will comment on the current results, although there are still some more tests to do. And I will put a few pictures about it and some comments about them.

Also later, I'll post photos of a couple of USB converters I'm using with very good results.


I suppose you will already know it, there is a version of the M51 called Rowen, that apparently has some elements of the different analog output stage.
It's a shame not to know, because it would be easy to change them and a cheap upgrade.


I was able to get an electrical schematic of the NAD DAC C510, on the analog part, it is practically identical. I do not know if the quality of components is the same, but the numbering does.
The fact is that I used continuous filters to filter the output of the LM317 and LM337 but with poor results, the sound loses quality significantly. I do not know the cause, since the filters really are fun and measurable.
Probably a mass problem.

 

The red and black colors, are inverted with respect to logical correspondence of positive and negative. There are several cables, but they are all connected to the same point.

 30kpzky.jpg

 

 

2pyz480.jpg

 

Operational LME49990 and the nearby controller that powers it.

 

9prl7a.jpg

 

 

Try the filters that I currently have installed on an amplifier. That as I say, does not work. The sound instead of improving, it got worse.

I have orders, two substitutes for the LM317 and LM337 of very low noise. They are not expensive.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/TPS7A3301-Ultralow-noise-LDO-regulator-3V-18V-1V-step-1A-LM337-79x-replace-/252533452377?hash=item3acc2aae59:g:msEAAOSwGtRX1PN-

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/TPS7A4700-Ultralow-noise-4-VRMS-LDO-linear-regulators-1-4V-20-5V-LM317-replace-/252710100444?hash=item3ad6b21ddc:g:18wAAOSwgmJX1PKh

 

 

 

5btdnc.jpg

 

30hyl2g.jpg

 

The source by the test, install it in the box of the Gustard U-12.

 

j7caw8.jpg

 

bbzt4.jpg

 

 

I also made a metal separation, but it is possible that to test, change the switched source to a linear one.

 

5y9swp.jpg

 

For now, it will stay.

 

2cqcm5c.jpg

 

I'll be putting some updates as I do. A greeting.

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hi 

 

Got me a C390DD second hand and found this place to be the most informative around. Not much updates lately, but I got some exciting news it looks like. It seems that Nad have made a new version of the BlueOS module that will fit even when the Analog Module is in its place. I found a picture from a German site that tested the C390 in October 2016. (Look at the attached picture)

 

It looks like the bluetooth-antenna has been moved down and more to the center compared to the old module.

 

More pictures in this review: https://www.modernhifi.de/nad-c-390dd2-test/

 

It also looks like this on the website now: https://nadelectronics.com/product/dd-bluos-1/

 

I've asked the importer here in Norway to check if this is the case... also there's rumour of a 4K HDMI Module as well....so the C390 isn't dead and buried yet...

 

Edit:

Confirmed form Norwegian Importer. The New BlueOS module is smaller....and there will come a 4K HDMI module this year. 

 

10-NAD-C-390DD2.jpg

Edited by Tommo21
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I recently picked up a new DD-HDM-1 at an Australian auction site (on a whim because is was fairly cheap) and have found it to be pretty much useless for its advertised use in a “video 2.0” system" - In particular of allowing a blu-ray player to connect to the c390dd for audio playback, which then sends the video to a TV. While it can do that, there is no provision for lip sync in the c390dd so when playing movies for example, the audio is significantly ahead of the video so lip sync is very out of sync. In a normal home theatre receiver this can be corrected in the receiver by delaying the audio using the lip sync feature. The c390dd does not have this capability.

 

The blu-ray player I have also does not have a lip sync feature. Perhaps more expensive blu-ray players do?

 

The workaround I have is to use hdmi from blu-ray player to tv, and then digital optical out from the tv to c390dd. In this way the TV will delay the audio the correct amount to match the delayed video processing of the tv, so lip sync will be in sync. However this means I am not using the DD-HDM-1 MDC module.

 

Therefore I think the DD-HDM-1 MDC module is really only useful for audio only applications and is useless for video/audio applications, unless your media player or blu-ray player can do the lip sync function. Or if you are one of those people who don't find out of sync audio/video to be annoying - I can't stand it.

 

Same issue with hdmi on the M51.

 

Due to this, I don't think there is much point in there being a 4K hdmi MDC module.

 

Happy to be corrected if I am wrong. Maybe lots of blu-ray players have a lip sync adjustment? I have only had one blu-ray player - maybe I got the only one without a lip sync feature - but I don't think so. Perhaps Oppo players do it? I can't justify oppo prices for something (blu-ray players) that goes obsolete every few years.

 

Or perhaps everyone only uses the hdmi interface for audio only so it has not been a problem?

 

I would be interested to hear how others are using their HDMI interfaces on c390dd and M51.

 

 

Anthony

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Some bluray-players have seperated audio and video hdmi-out, so when that's the case they must for sure have a setting on board that can sync picture and audio. 

 

As for now the C390DD doesn't have this option, but it shouldn't be too difficult to add this function softwarewise I believe.

 

I'm not sure If I need a HDMI module or 4K module, unless there's other advantages with it. I'm happy enough to take audio out with optical from my TV.

 

You could also possibly use audio return channel(HDMI) from  your TV to the C390dd HDMI module, and then there shouldn't be any audio/picture lag, as it's the same audio that you'll get from optical out from TV.

 

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Yep the Oppo has av sync feature -100 to +200 ms. I use it to actually reduce the auto delay to my Phantoms as the built in DSP causes audio delay. You would think there have to be other cheaper players with this feature.

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1 hour ago, Tommo21 said:

Some bluray-players have seperated audio and video hdmi-out, so when that's the case they must for sure have a setting on board that can sync picture and audio. 

 

As for now the C390DD doesn't have this option, but it shouldn't be too difficult to add this function softwarewise I believe.

 

I'm not sure If I need a HDMI module or 4K module, unless there's other advantages with it. I'm happy enough to take audio out with optical from my TV.

 

You could also possibly use audio return channel(HDMI) from  your TV to the C390dd HDMI module, and then there shouldn't be any audio/picture lag, as it's the same audio that you'll get from optical out from TV.

 

 

I don't think the c390dd is capable of using arc/audio return channel(hdmi).

 

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I forgot to mention, the other way I find the DD-HDM-1 to be not useful is with my main computer, though this is possibly my computers fault. I thought I would at least be able to make use of the DD-HDM-1 with this - but no.

 

For my computer (a mac) to use HDMI audio via the c390dd, it has to see an audio capable monitor/tv at the other end of the hdmi cable. It can't just connect to the c390dd on its own (with no tv connected to the c390dd) as that is just an audio device rather than a video device with audio. So to use the c390dd in this set up, I have to have the tv turned on (which I am not looking at, at the time, because I am using my computer monitor). Also with the tv turned on, it becomes part of my computer display which means I can choose either two displays (and only use one to look at) and various application windows get put on to the tv I am not looking at and have to go find them and drag them back to my computer display, or I can choose to mirror the displays in which case my computer monitor has to shrink down to 1920x1080 rather than its full native resolution. Neither of these options is usable for me. When using one of these options, if anything happens like the tv turns off, or on, or I change inputs of the c390dd to optical for example, my application windows get moved all out of place to fit the new screens or the disappearance of a screen.

 

Like I said this is possibly my computers fault, rather than the c390dd's fault, but it is what it is and means the HDMI input of the c390dd is useless for me in this situation too.

 

Sorry I keep ranting about this. In the scheme of things it is not a big deal. More just a warning that the DD-HDM-1 may not be usable in all the situations people might think it could be useful for.

 

Based on Steve's comment about the Oppo having an AV sync feature it seems that it might be useful with that.

 

Anthony

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I don't think anyone here has tried the new version yet, but there's several people that have the first version.

 

I've ordered the new version, but it's on backorder and it will be almost 3 months before I'll get it it looks like.

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Guest tpointon
55 minutes ago, scumbag said:

Has anyone tried the blueos card with any of the NAD amplfiers?

Yes, I have the BluOS card in my C390DD running as a 2.1 audio system. It is a wonderful addition and in fact is the only source I ever use unless I am playing an old vinyl LP where I use an external ADC. The BluOS module is controlled by an app my tablet; both the app and the module get periodic updates automatically. The BluOS software sees/plays all my NAS-hosted flac files and connects flawlessly with Tidal, TuneIn etc. In fact, with my new ATC SCM19 speakers I am finding the C390DD perhaps a bit under-powered, but if I decide I need more power, I will seriously consider using the C390DD/BluOS combo as a pre-amp using it's pre-outs. Hope this helps. Tim

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I opened up my C390DD yesterday to have a look inside, and oh my word....what a dustcollector this is. The previous owner opened it up to change to the DD2 USB card when it came a while ago, but he can't have cleaned it up. There where hairy/dusty componenents all over, but luckily it wasn't the kind that was sticky and stuck. With a few blows of canned air it looked very clean again. I reckon this should be done annually as the whole top plate is perforated the dust just falls straight into the different circuitboards and powertransformers. Worst case this could cause a fire...

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Guest scumbag

Just off topic for a second. I am impressed at the truly international nature of this discussion. And now we return you to your normal programming...............

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Guest thathifiguy

Maybe, in order for this topic to remain relevant with previous and now replacement models, we could get the name changed to The Official NAD Direct Digital Owners Thread :)?

Edited by thathifiguy
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4 hours ago, thathifiguy said:

Maybe, in order for this topic to remain relevant with previous and now replacement models, we could get the name changed to The Official NAD Direct Digital Owners Thread :)?

Yeah, that would probably be appropriate at this point. The new C368 and C388 will also use the same MDC-Modules.

 

As I understand the C390DD is not in sale in some markets anymore? Here in Norway it's still for sale, and has actually had a price-hike in the last few days. I wonder what the difference between the C388 and the C390 is that can explain the big price difference between these two products?

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Guest scumbag

Despite the similarly in naming, the c390dd and the  C388 are very different beasts. Note the lack of dd at the end of the 388. The 390dd utilises the zetec chip with direct digital error feedback. The  c388 looks to be a more conventional  class-d amp based on modified hypex modules. Not to say it isn't a good unit but it is not the same  in topology. It's a shame that nad seems to have abandoned the zetec chip and the direct digital feedback technology. 

Edited by scumbag
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54 minutes ago, scumbag said:

Despite the similarly in naming, the c390dd and the  C388 are very different beasts. Note the lack of dd at the end of the 388. The 390dd utilises the zetec chip with direct digital error feedback. The  c388 looks to be a more conventional  class-d amp based on modified hypex modules. Not to say it isn't a good unit but it is not the same  in topology. It's a shame that nad seems to have abandoned the zetec chip and the direct digital feedback technology. 

 

hmm thats very interesting SB. i thought the 390DD a nice thing. pity seems to have gone by wayside. is the New master series M32 as DD design as well or gone conventional class D ?

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9 hours ago, Flynk2015 said:

I use a Yamaha blu-ray; I do not have this problem of syncronisation of the image and the sound by HDMI. With the blu-ray I only listen to concerts of rock music: Peter Gabriel, Pink Floyd, Yes, etc...

 

6 hours ago, thathifiguy said:

Maybe, in order for this topic to remain relevant with previous and now replacement models, we could get the name changed to The Official NAD Direct Digital Owners Thread :)?

 

let me know by posting back here guys if want to update the thread title to keep current. just let me know what title is best to be and I will update,

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