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16 hours ago, mwhouston said:

I'm seriously thinking about going back to a MM cart. For about the last ten or more years I have been enjoying my Ortofon Rondo Blue but by now may need re-tipping. But I am thinking about got to back to something like an Ortofon 2M black.

 

I have three DIY MM stages (one tube) and three DIY MC stages so I would have to shake off my MC stages. I read some way you only use a MM cart because you can't afford a MC cart.

 

Has anyone got some good arguments for and against.

 

 

No arguments either way, just a suggestion. Get yourself a Grace F9.....or a Grace Level II. Best MM's ever! That is open for debate but I'll argue it to the death!:P Natural, dynamic balanced tones coupled with extreme detail and accuracy. Bliss!:thumb: PS: I have one MC (Denon DL103 and I'll admit not the best MC going around) which I like but rarely gets used such is the brilliance of my Grace carts.

Edited by stevoz
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21 minutes ago, stevoz said:

No arguments either way, just a suggestion. Get yourself a Grace F9.....or a Grace Level II. Best MM's ever! That is open for debate but I'll argue it to the death!:P Natural, dynamic balanced tones coupled with extreme detail and accuracy. Bliss!:thumb: PS: I have one MC (Denon DL103 and I'll admit not the best MC going around) which I like but rarely gets used such is the brilliance of my Grace carts.

 

I grew up with Grace carts. An F8.

Bliss is an apt description.

 

-pauly-

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, stevoz said:

No arguments either way, just a suggestion. Get yourself a Grace F9.....or a Grace Level II. Best MM's ever! That is open for debate but I'll argue it to the death!:P Natural, dynamic balanced tones coupled with extreme detail and accuracy. Bliss!:thumb: PS: I have one MC (Denon DL103 and I'll admit not the best MC going around) which I like but rarely gets used such is the brilliance of my Grace carts.

 

best mm ever.   I think the TECHNICS EPC-P100C-MK4 Cartridge might have something to say. :)    the Grace's are certainly nice and easier to get.

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-technics-epc-p100c-mk4-cartridge

 

6450624659_5995fe3195_b.jpg

 

 

here is the frequency response - Its a straight line.  never seen that before on any cartridge.

 

8554414468_45aa8a1514_b.jpg

 

Edited by metal beat
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6 hours ago, stevoz said:

Get yourself a Grace F9.....or a Grace Level II. Best MM's ever! That is open for debate but I'll argue it to the death!:P Natural, dynamic balanced tones coupled with extreme detail and accuracy. Bliss!  :thumb:

 

Best MMs ever - have you heard them all?  If you include MIs in the MM family then I'd suspect a Grado Statement Reference 2 would give it a run for its money.  :D

 

And I'd put my Stanton WOS CS100 up there, too!

 

Andy

 

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19 minutes ago, stevoz said:

@andyr Have I heard them all? Of course not. My claims come from a completely bias viewpoint!:P I did say it's open to debate but I do know the Grace's I mentioned rate with the best. Have you heard a Grace Level II ?:)

 

Alas no, Steve.  :(

 

But I think the cart that was supplied with my LP12/DV505 when I bought it from The Soundcraftsman in 1979, was a Grace ... but I forget which model.  I was then exclusively a LOMC user for many years until I bought a Grado Ref Ref 1 as a backup cart, about 8 years ago.  Then I found the Stanton WOS CS100 which was better - so I sold the Grado.  Recently, after listening to the Stanton exclusively for nearly a year (an unfortunate choice of cart re-tipper for my Benz LP :( ), I got the LP back and have to say that it is a step or two above the Stanton. :thumb:

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr
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I liked the Grace F9. But let's get real here. Andy is spot on regarding the Grado Statement Reference models. And I've heard the Technics which is an incredibly dynamic cartridge. There is a group of MM devotees who are convinced that the Stanton high output (and even moreso the low output) MM is unbeatable. I know what a reengineered Decca Gold sounds like. While there are some records which it simply fails to work with, there are others for which it is, hands down, the best MM I've ever heard by a wide margin. There are, of course, a whole gamut of high output moving coils which would give the best MM cartridges serious competition.

 

Cheers

Warren

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8 hours ago, proftournesol said:

Warren I'd second your experience with the Decca Gold, I preferred mine to my Koetsu Onyx

 

These are of course very different cartridge designs, v different sounding & suit different tastes, priorities.

One shouldn't of course necessarily infer that one cartridge is 'better' than the other.

 

Koetsus are often mentioned as a benchmark for comparison.

At this 'high end' of audio, devices also tend to have a rather 'narrow sweet spot' for best performance.

For example, as Jean Lantais pointed out, you don't really hear a Koetsu perform as Sugano heard it, unless you play it on a 401 or at least an idler TT.

It took me a decade or two to learn that :) (I've had Koetsus continuously since around '87)

 

Cheers, Owen

http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

Edited by Owen Y
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10 hours ago, mwhouston said:

Cheapest I have seen the blacks  is $880. No VTA adjustment. 

 

 

ebay is cheapest for 2m black especially during it's regular 10-20% sale for example http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ortofon-2M-Black-Verso-Moving-Magnet-Tonabnehmer-Cartridge-free-int-shipping-/232456629699?epid=1124543097&hash=item361f7eadc3:g:5PEAAOSw4GVYUSvH even with current measly 5% sale it's $680 shipped. But I will wait for their next sale.

 

But I recomment to start looking of some sort of shim either on the arm mount or cartridge to correct VTA. 2m black really need one without correct VTA it can sound bright. took me a while to setup mine

Edited by mloutfie
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On 18/08/2017 at 3:16 PM, metal beat said:

Etna SL

 

36595956826_bf4e79844d_b.jpg

 

Sure would love to hear one mounted on my Klimax LP12.....some owners have ditched their Kandid for one of these...

 

Tase.

 

attachment.php?aid=7089

 

Looks great too...:P

Edited by Tasebass
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18 minutes ago, Tasebass said:

 

Sure would love to hear one mounted on my Klimax LP12.....some owners have ditched their Kandid for one of these...

 

Tase.

 

Really.  That is interesting.  I can understand why - its still very detailed and has an uncanny holographic presentation but not quite as neutral as the Atlas which can be a double edged sword in some systems.

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1 minute ago, metal beat said:

 

Really.  That is interesting.  I can understand why - its still very detailed and has an uncanny holographic presentation but not quite as neutral as the Atlas which can be a double edged sword in some systems.

 

Some have gone the Atlas route too...

kept the Urika phono stage though...:unsure:

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In a post a few days back I was listening to my MM TT via the new Minic Carbon MM stage and headphones. I like my Stanton 881s and Garrott K2 but the K2 sounded distorted. I took a hard look at the K2 and sure enough there was a big clump of fried "stuff" on the stylus. 

 

I use a dust brush and wash my LPs but something had stuck itself to the stylus. I managed to massage it off with the stylus brush then used record cleaner to really give it a good wash. Wth a result the K2 is back and sounding great. 

 

The K2 is smooth where the Stanton is a little more punchy. The K2 is quite new and the Stanton has a new stylus. Two great cartridges and a fun way to enjoy them.

 

 

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My love affair with 80's AR's has continued.

I was very impressed with an EB101 AR TT.

Transparent, and very musically expressive.

But the English EB101 is the cheapest possible AR.

I was very keen to try an "AR The Turntable". ( A real one, ;)  )

Now you can add a very natural sound and body to instruments which sound more like they have 

realistic tone, to that list above. I recently set this up over a few days including conversion to Aussie

power 240v. The Koetsu absolutely loves it. I've never heard the Black quite like it :) .

Here is some TT porn ...

 

-pauly-

 

 

 

 

 

 

20170825_000443.jpg

20170825_000425.jpg

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On 8/23/2017 at 10:10 PM, mwhouston said:

In a post a few days back I was listening to my MM TT via the new Minic Carbon MM stage and headphones. I like my Stanton 881s and Garrott K2 but the K2 sounded distorted. I took a hard look at the K2 and sure enough there was a big clump of fried "stuff" on the stylus. 

 

I use a dust brush and wash my LPs but something had stuck itself to the stylus. I managed to massage it off with the stylus brush then used record cleaner to really give it a good wash. Wth a result the K2 is back and sounding great. 

 

The K2 is smooth where the Stanton is a little more punchy. The K2 is quite new and the Stanton has a new stylus. Two great cartridges and a fun way to enjoy them.

 

 

Hi Mark, the tip of the stylus undergoes some considerable heat in it's journey.

there can be muck, esp on older records I'm told, that will melt onto it.

if you forget to wipe it one night before bed it will stick hard.

some alcohol will remove it but don't drown it as the alcohol can damage the

suspension in the cart.

Saw a stanton , new, in op shop the other day! was going to buy it but

I think it was a lesser model than the good ones.

 

-pauly-

 

 

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7 hours ago, pauly99 said:

Hi Mark, the tip of the stylus undergoes some considerable heat in it's journey.

there can be muck, esp on older records I'm told, that will melt onto it.

if you forget to wipe it one night before bed it will stick hard.

some alcohol will remove it but don't drown it as the alcohol can damage the

suspension in the cart.

Saw a stanton , new, in op shop the other day! was going to buy it but

I think it was a lesser model than the good ones.

 

-pauly-

 

 

Thanks mate. It did clean-up well though. I've seen Stanton 881s for $250 on eBay.

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8 hours ago, pauly99 said:

Saw a Stanton , new, in op shop the other day! was going to buy it but I think it was a lesser model than the good ones.

 

 

1 hour ago, mwhouston said:

 

Thanks mate. It did clean-up well though. I've seen Stanton 881s for $250 on eBay.

 

 

980/981 is the one to get - unless by some fluke you manage to find a 'WOS CS100'.

 

980/981 comes in 2 flavours:

  • 'HZS' - the high output model, and
  • 'LZS' - the low output model.

I would suspect the LZS sounds better than the HZS - but of course, at 0.5mV you need an MC phono stage.

 

Andy

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28 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

 

980/981 is the one to get - unless by some fluke you manage to find a 'WOS CS100'.

 

980/981 comes in 2 flavours:

  • 'HZS' - the high output model, and
  • 'LZS' - the low output model.

I would suspect the LZS sounds better than the HZS - but of course, at 0.5mV you need an MC phono stage.

 

Andy

 

The 980LZS has an output closer to 0.25mV so an MC stage with decent gain is essential.

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