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Lyra Atlas Lambda SL.       Brand new Lambda version which sounds a little different to the old one and gone from green body to purple. crazy price for new, but Lyra have generous rebuild prices

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Crazy Mike Veteran

Crazy Mike

Posted
Posted
On 01/03/2017 at 5:00 PM, Crazy Mike said:

PSU arrived today for the Phono Box RS. It's still charging at the moment, will report in later after listening on battery power.IMG_20170301_165052.thumb.jpg.840fa32afeaa9407eb124adb601b8846.jpg

Haven't done much listening since getting the PSU, but tonight I had a wow moment listening to the Oscar Peterson boxset. The trio coming from such a silent background sounds magnificent. Bass is full, lots of detail from each instrument and no hint of strain or harshness. I'm extremely happy with this phono combo.

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pauly99 Enthusiast

pauly99

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Owen Y said:

 

It's mother would love it tho' ;)

 

Seriously however, what is the tube complement & general design, @pauly99?

 

Cheers, Owen

http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

 

 

HiYa Owen, etal,

 

2 triodes in parallel at the front.

passive RIAA

no feedback

final amplification stage is another triode with a constant current source on top.

First 2 tubes are older sovtek 12AX7.

Next 2 tubes are 12AX7LPS, a newer sovtek. Good value for money & nice bottom end on this one.

HT supply and heaters caused some damm hard to cure noise. higher than 50Hz.

I am yet to really see it on the cro to measure it, but I cured it with a resistor and cap between

HT and heater earths.

sounds pretty decent.

I was extremely ambitious and tried another front tube in grounded grid for MC input.

That hasn't worked yet ;) 

 

cheers, P.

 

 

 

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Owen Y Grand Master

Owen Y

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, pauly99 said:

HiYa Owen, etal,

 

2 triodes in parallel at the front.

passive RIAA

no feedback

final amplification stage is another triode with a constant current source on top.

First 2 tubes are older sovtek 12AX7.

Next 2 tubes are 12AX7LPS, a newer sovtek. Good value for money & nice bottom end on this one.

HT supply and heaters caused some damm hard to cure noise. higher than 50Hz.

I am yet to really see it on the cro to measure it, but I cured it with a resistor and cap between

HT and heater earths.

sounds pretty decent.

I was extremely ambitious and tried another front tube in grounded grid for MC input.

That hasn't worked yet ;) 

 

cheers, P.

 

Hiya @pauly99 - Good work, I thought I was one of the few people to attempt a quiet phonostage in a wood box ;)

 

What total gain? I not seen more than 60dB from a phono stage (without noise, dynamic range compromises).

 

In my tube phono (& linestage) I have the heaters elevated to minimise noise. Elsewhere, I have used an artificial CTap from heater supply, with 2 Rs to Gnd.

Ah yes, a big cap, heater to Gnd can help.

HT noise I guess is up to good filtering. And Gnding.

Keep up the good work - a DIY thread could be interesting ;)

 

Cheers, Owen

http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

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pauly99 Enthusiast

pauly99

Posted
Posted

I can work out most of the gain, but not all, first stage is about Av 40. 32db. RIAA -20db = 12db.

not sure how to calculate the gain of the last stage with the ccs on top?

if I assume it's about the same as the previous then 12 + 32 =  44db.

I'm not using an additional line stage. It's just the MC cart into a stepup,

then this phono preamp and then straight into KT88 PP power amp mono blocks.

The phono pre has enough gain to go straight in.

One of the reasons I always wanted to build one of these.

The pot is just on the end of the phono pre. I haven't investigated yet

if it will be a bad match for the power amp input and need a buffer of

some sort but it sounds like it doesn't need it.

So I guess the gain is a bit low, but it's plenty for me because I'm driving

altec horns at 98 - 100 db efficiency.

P.

 

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andyr Life Member

andyr

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, pauly99 said:

 

So I guess the gain is a bit low, but it's plenty for me because I'm driving

altec horns at 98 - 100 db efficiency.

P.

 

 

Even with those horns, you are still getting zero noise (given it's a wooden - therefore unshielded - box)?

 

Andy

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pauly99 Enthusiast

pauly99

Posted
Posted

oh no I wouldn't say zero ;) 
I use occams razor with hifi, 80% of the good can be got pretty directly , discard the other 20%.

Actually it is acceptably low. I did alot of good filtering and grounding in there really.

The next most audible noise now between tracks is one of the pesky 6SN7's in the power amp

left channel. It's on the way out that tube. Need to swap it.

No doubt even more could be done to reduce noise. Fun for the future.

I have kids. And not much time. It sounds quiet enough for me to enjoy.

( ps the time spent building this in the last week did almost cost me my relationship ! lol

all for a phono pre. I can make it up to her ;) it was worth it :) )

P.

 

 

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Owen Y Grand Master

Owen Y

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, pauly99 said:

I can work out most of the gain, but not all, first stage is about Av 40. 32db. RIAA -20db = 12db.

not sure how to calculate the gain of the last stage with the ccs on top?

if I assume it's about the same as the previous then 12 + 32 =  44db.

I'm not using an additional line stage. It's just the MC cart into a stepup,

then this phono preamp and then straight into KT88 PP power amp mono blocks.

The phono pre has enough gain to go straight in.

One of the reasons I always wanted to build one of these.

The pot is just on the end of the phono pre. I haven't investigated yet

if it will be a bad match for the power amp input and need a buffer of

some sort but it sounds like it doesn't need it.

So I guess the gain is a bit low, but it's plenty for me because I'm driving

altec horns at 98 - 100 db efficiency.

P.

 

 

Is there a MC step-up in front of the phono, did you say?

 

Gain - you lose quite a bit thru the RIAA sections.

I just measure Vin vs Vout (1k sine on the scope).

 

My horns are over 100dB sensitivity & there's a bit of hum.

 

Cheers, Owen

http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

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andyr Life Member

andyr

Posted
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, pauly99 said:

oh yeah , the SUT is 31db. so +44 = 75db!

which is suddenly ALOT. but the pot cuts it down to just a fraction out.

 

P.

 

That doesn't make sense, IMO.  Any pot degrades the SQ - some a little (like the TKD stepped attenuator in my preamp) ... others a lot.  So you've given yourself far too much gain ... which you then have to get rid of.  :(

 

Your SUT is 1:40, yes?  As you're in Melbouren, if it's possible, I would be very interested in bringing my AKSA 'Paris' headamp over to your place to try it in front of your phono stage, in place of your SUT.  As it's SLA powered, I believe you won't be able to hear any noise from your horns and its gain is far less: 10x - 15x (not 40x).

 

This would enable you to see whether not having 75dB gain will make your listening experience quieter.

 

What cart is it, btw?

 

Andy

 

 

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Owen Y Grand Master

Owen Y

Posted
Posted

(This is becoming a digression sorry...)

Hi @andyr - SUTs add no noise (unless there's Gnding hum problem ;) ), so swapping in a headamp will be no quieter, except for the cct noise of the headamp.

@pauly99 - the pot is for vol control? In the linestage as usual, we presume?

 

Cheers, Owen

http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

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pauly99 Enthusiast

pauly99

Posted
Posted

ok Andy...

 

I think you've actually misread my posts.

I haven't got any significant noise from my horns. It's ok. I solved the initial problem. Totally.

I was just saying it was initially challenging to nail it.

 

So I don't need  a quieter listening experience.  Thankyou :) regardless.

Further "quietning" is just fun for me if I can afford the time. It's not a levinson ML2 or a Stan Curtis,

personally when I'm happy I get to a point when I'd rather spend the precious time listening to music.

 

 

Some other replies to your post:

 

 31db equates to 1:35

 

I realise the POT especially my cheapy, degrades the sound, but,

I don't care remember occams razor?

I can upgrade it later. Depends how motivated I am.

 

I didn't "give" myself too much gain. :)

you don't get to choose gain that much in a tube amp.

once you choose your happy bias point the gain is what it is,

at least with a given valve.

my other preamp the 4SUTea by retro thermionic is even more gain.

It sounds excellent. Perhaps like mine, it could be better , but .......... ok one day yes!

 

love to have you around for a listen to my preamp :) and for me a listen your paris, :)

The Paris as you say with less gain could be even nicer. 

But you'll have to join the queue... family life has me stretched in all directions, honestly.

I will try some of my head amps later. You've sparked my interest regardless of need.

 

 

cart is the Koetsu Black.

 

cheers,

-pauly-

 

 

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pauly99 Enthusiast

pauly99

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Owen Y said:

(This is becoming a digression sorry...)

Hi @andyr - SUTs add no noise (unless there's Gnding hum problem ;) ), so swapping in a headamp will be no quieter, except for the cct noise of the headamp.

@pauly99 - the pot is for vol control? In the linestage as usual, we presume?

 

Cheers, Owen

http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

pot is for vol control yes,

at the end of this phono pre,

no additional linestage used ;)

 

P.

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pauly99 Enthusiast

pauly99

Posted
Posted
On 3/29/2017 at 10:54 AM, Owen Y said:

Hiya @pauly99 - Good work, I thought I was one of the few people to attempt a quiet phonostage in a wood box ;)

 

What total gain? I not seen more than 60dB from a phono stage (without noise, dynamic range compromises).

 

In my tube phono (& linestage) I have the heaters elevated to minimise noise. Elsewhere, I have used an artificial CTap from heater supply, with 2 Rs to Gnd.

Ah yes, a big cap, heater to Gnd can help.

HT noise I guess is up to good filtering. And Gnding.

Keep up the good work - a DIY thread could be interesting ;)

 

Cheers, Owen

http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

 

 

 

Hey Owen,

 

I was just going through some old paper print outs that I have collected over the years on valve phono and yes your wood box phono from sound practices popped out! Looks like nought was spared in this build. Well Done. And you still run this one I gather, years later. I must have found your article years ago...

 

P.

 

 

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andyr Life Member

andyr

Posted
Posted
On 29/03/2017 at 1:08 PM, Owen Y said:

 

Hi @andyr - SUTs add no noise (unless there's Gnding hum problem ;), so swapping in a headamp will be no quieter, except for the cct noise of the headamp.

 

Cheers, Owen

http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

 

Yes, I'm aware of that, Owen.  My position is that an SLA-powered headamp will not introduce any cct noise either.  And, if it's made right, it offers completely flexible loading options (unlike a SUT).  :)

 

Andy

 

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mkaramazov Mentor

mkaramazov

Posted
Posted (edited)

Bought an Audio Technica AT33ML  MC from @Chickenism last year from the SNA classifieds - I finally mounted it last week. Sounds gorgeous. The AT 33ML is a long discontinued model with micro linear stylus mounted on a gold plated beryllium cantilever. Renowned for sounding shrill, but its sounds great in my system, and a real step up detail wise from the Audio Technica AT32E MC that I had before.

 

The cartridge is mounted on an Orsonic headshell, on a SME 3012 S2 arm, Thorens 124 II turntable. The cartridge plays through a Audio Technica AT 650 SUT, and my trusty Yaqin 12B valve phono stage which is running all Telefunken 12AU7s / 12AX7s.  This is all feeding my 6AS7 SET amp and Goodmans speakers at the moment - very fun to be still using 50 year old components in an everyday system. 

 

Its all sounding pretty nice - warm, detailed, full. Thank you again @Chickenism !

Thorens 2.JPG

thorens 1.JPG

Edited by mkaramazov
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dwbasement Grand Master

dwbasement

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thank you for @ophool lending me the AT mono3 LP, using a MM phono stage only but good enough I reckon, now I know what the fuss about using a mono cart..loving it.20170403_230828.thumb.jpg.5fb5424de1ec4fd345a660440c85c737.jpg

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Edited by dwbasement
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stevoz Grand Master

stevoz

Posted
Posted (edited)

Just a quick posting on the venerable budget audiophile cart, the Shure M97xE. I put mine back on after a long rest to catch up on it's sonics and soon realised that I hadn't heard it through the Vincent PHO-8 before, having mainly used the DL103 and thrashing the Grace Level ll RC:love since the Vincent's purchase. It was somewhat of a revelation. I think the Vincent and the Shure are a perfect match. With just the stock stylus (haven't bought the LPGear VividLine yet), it sounds quite wonderful. Not the finer detail of the Grace or Denon, but tonally very satisfying! Full, nicely balanced and vibrant. Yet again, I am reminded what a fine cart for it's low cost the M97xE truly is.:thumb:

Edited by stevoz
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