Scott's New Build mkII

[scottrichardson]

Hi all,

I thought I'd start up a new thread for my new room. I know I have a thread already about asking advice for the system over in the multichannel systems forum, however this thread is specifically for keeping you up to dat with my new build with progress shots, equipment etc.

So we're building a new home. It's almost up to the insulation stage. Frame, roof, bricks etc are all done. 

My dedicated room is 4.2m wide x 5.4m long with a 9.3ft ceiling height built on a slab.

I have a rear riser that is 11" heigh, full width across the room, running 1.8m deep. Enough room for the Surround back speakers and a row of seats with some leg room.

My speakers are being delivered next week. A full Power Sound Audio system consisting of 7 of their MTM210 two-way mini-towers for the 7 ear-height channels, and 4 of their 110SR surrounds for the height / atmos channels. The subwoofer I chose is the 3600i sealed dual 18" push/pull sub with 1800 watt RMS amp. I imagine this new single sub will vastly out perform my previous home subs which were 2 sealed custom built boxes with 12" Adire audio Shiva drivers powered by a pro Behringer 1200 watt amp. 

I am undecided on the screen just yet, but leaning towards 2.35:1 cinemascope at 165" diagonal which gives me a 131" 16:9 image in the centre for TV shows and gaming. I'm looking for advice on the best projector, lens and motor for both the lens and also some sort of motorised curtains system. Thinking the new JVC D-ILA X9500 or the 4K SONY model. Will likely get another screen from projectorscreens.com.au as their support and service was fantastic last time I purchased and I was very happy with the screen. 

I just looked up the anamorphic lens costs and it seems extremely expensive for what it is. Is this the norm for what amounts to some (precision) glass and a mount?

Walls will be stuffed with acoustic insulation. The rear riser has already been filled with double ply acoustic material. 

I will likely be buying some SoundAcoustics panels including some bass traps and dispersion tiles in black and red to staple to the walls. My previous home had some full height corner bass traps I'd built using Bradford Ultratel insulation which did work quite nicely for most frequencies above 80Hz. Sadly I ALWAYS suffered a bass null between 40 - 70hz in my seating area which really sucked. Hoping the new room with larger sub, tiered seating and higher ceiling coupled to a slab floor manage to do better this time round.

I will post pics shortly of the room so far, and also when the speakers arrive next week (to my rental where I live currently).
Scott

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by scottrichardson

[Quark]

Some nice speakers and sub! Also good to hear that you went with the higher riser.

Yes, anamorphic lenses are expensive (I use one in my setup) but the decent ones do have a lot of design and engineering precision built in.

The X9500 has lens memory so you could zoom between aspect ratios rather than use an anamorphic lens. I'm not up with all the Sony 4K models, but some have lens memory, not sure if all do.

However, without a lens the X9500 will be limited to a max 150" scope screen in your room due to the throw distance required (and 150" will be touch and go). I expect the Sony models will be in the same ball park, but if you have a model in mind I'll run the numbers and check on lens memory.

With HDR now part of the mix, you'll also need to take some advice on screen size / screen gain / throw distance / lumens (especially as your lamp ages and light output decreases if you intend using it. I'm not  up to speed on the impact of HDR. I'd be surprised if even the high light output of the X9500 will be enough to run HDR on a 165" scope screen for anything like the rated lamp hours.

Another consideration if you're looking at HDR. If I''m reading correctly all projectors will be in High lamp when projecting HDR images and with the louder fan noise we may see a return to use of hush boxes to avoid the distraction.

 

[scottrichardson]

Hi Quark, 

Many thanks for the fantastic reply with really useful info.

I remember my first JVC was an X9, and it only pumped out 800-900 lumens at its brightest. It really wasn't quite enough to fill my 130" screen with enough light for much longer than the first 100 hours or so on the lamp. It was OK. It still looked fantastic, and the contrast was still amazing, but it never felt bright enough.

When it was replaced (for free) by JVC with an X70R, the jump up in lumens to 1100-1200 was noticeable. Not a huge jump, but enough to feel 'bright enough'. 

When I saw that the new X9500 pumped out 2000 lumens I was pretty excited. It makes sense this is for the HDR compatibility. At worst, I'm going to end up wit ha projector that is vastly (almost twice) as bright as my previous setup for general viewing.

I tend to replace my lamp every 1200 hours or so.

So you can probably gather than I ran all of my projectors in high lamp mode, and the additional noise level was passable for me with a typically mounted projector.

In this new build, I'm going to box the projector in using a bulkhead that my builder will add. This way I don't need to 'mount' the projector. It will just sit on the shelf. I am contemplating boxing the whole thing except the front, however was concerned with heat dissipation. I guess I could open up some holes to the roof cavity to let the heat escape into there? Is this what you mean by a "hush box"?

Scott

[Quark]

The new JVCs certainly do output some big lumens. Depending on the screen size etc you go with, for SDR viewing you may still have too bright an image on low lamp unless you step down the fixed iris to a lower setting (this will help with contrast too).

Your bulkhead shelf arrangement would be an open version of a hush box. Google "projector hush box" for some more detail on how others have approached this. If you're going to vent air, I'd vent it into the bulkhead as roof cavities tend to be extremely hot. Some low noise PC fans would be an option. With an open arrangement, you might consider some noise absorbent lining to minimise reflected noise into the room.

Looking forward to seeing your build progress.

 

[scottrichardson]

Looks like I've settled on the JVC D-ILA X9500 projector, a 165" cinemascope EVO 4K screen, Crystalmorphic 4K5E Anamorphic lens and a slidamorphic lens transport system thanks to Richard at OZTS, who I purchased my old screen from some 7 years ago now.

The lens will take care of the zoom / widening that I require to fill the 165" beyond the ~130" 16x9 central image for which the zoom will be optimised.

So that just leaves the processor / amp(s)  / receiver.

Are Emotiva any good as amps? I could spec up couple of their modular amps to get a 7 + 4 channel setup. Which would leave me able to run the Yamaha separate Aventage processor.

Scott

[Quark]

That's a great setup for the video side of things.

Probably time for me to let someone else give an opinion on the audio side.

[scottrichardson]

Worth noting I genuinely only have personal experience with Yamaha Receivers and a NAD C320 stereo amp. My previous surround receiver was the RX-V3800 and before that the RX-V2095. Both lasted many years and were all great, but I have nothing to compare them to really. The NAD amp was great. Better than the Yamaha for stereo.

[SandS]

Yes this will be a really great video setup. I take it you slide lens over for 21:9 and no lens for 16:9  and don't use any zoom 

[scottrichardson]

18 minutes ago, SandS said:

Yes this will be a really great video setup. I take it you slide lens over for 21:9 and no lens for 16:9  and don't use any zoom 

I may end up running a little zoom to get the picture size what I need at 16:9.

Is there a reason to NOT use zoom on a projector?

[scottrichardson]

Hi folks, thought I would start sharing some pics and some updates. 

Firstly, here's the house plan. The house is split-level, with the front area on a slab. The 2nd tier living area and kitchen etc is all on bearers/joists. The theatre is on the same tier, however it is on a slab. Finally our master bedroom is on a higher tier, but also on a slab. Ceilings are 8.5ft nominal, and 9.3ft in the theatre.

 

 

[scottrichardson]

Here's some construction pics I took today. I also just messaged my builder to enquire about additional costs to do double layers of gyprock. The rest of the house is standard 10mm gyprock.

Looking towards the theatre while standing in the open/living area:

 

 

 

[scottrichardson]

Looking back at the rear-riser. The windows will be covered with blackout rollers or similar:

 

The left and right surrounds will be sitting on top of the riser, just at the front ledge of it, against the side walls. The surround backs will be 3 noggins in from the corners along the back wall. Still undecided on what method I'll use to lift these 4 speakers a little higher off the ground. They are floor standing 70cm tall speakers, but that won't be high enough. Thinking of having my builder add in some framed stands for them to sit on, and have the skirting boards go around them - so they feel like a fixture in the room.

[scottrichardson]

Here's a shot looking towards the front of the room from the rear riser. You can see all speaker cables, HDMI and ethernet are all in place. Walls will be filled with acoustic treatment insulation:

[scottrichardson]

So 10 of my 12 speakers arrived today! I'm decking the theatre out with a full Power Sound Audio setup. Here's 7 main channels and 3 of my atmos / surrounds. My sub and 4th surround got re-routed by mistake to Mudgee instead of Ulladulla! Whoops. Big thanks to Peter at Deep HZ Audio for his customer service and recommendations. Was a pleasure to deal with. 

PS - these things are quite big. The 7 main channels all feature dual 10" mid/bass drivers coupled to a horn tweeter. (see next pic)

[scottrichardson]

And here's one of the MTM-210's unboxed and grill removed. Hopefully I have a moment to hook a pair up to my temporary (borrowed) old Sony receiver over the next few days so I can take a listen. These are super heavy too. Very solid, utilitarian design:

 

Placed some buckets in the shot to get a sense of scale

[Quark]

That's coming together very nicely!

[SandS]

How are you placing the LCR ?  Is the center a 210c. Do you know where the sub will sit. 2x18" pretty impressive 

[scottrichardson]

2 hours ago, SandS said:

How are you placing the LCR ?  Is the center a 210c. Do you know where the sub will sit. 2x18" pretty impressive 

All 7 main channels are identical speakers, all 210's. Not the 210c. So they will all be vertically aligned, most likely will build some custom short stands for them to sit on. Sub is likely going to start its life between the front left and centre speaker along the front wall. I'm super excited to hear how the sub sounds, and to see if it's enough displacement for my room to achieve what I'm after - I'm almost certain it will be

[scottrichardson]

Sub arrived!

Got it plus two of the 210's hooked up in our living room just for kicks. Without getting too in depth, all I can say is the PSA sub is amazing. Barely even scratched the surface of what it's capable of but already blown away. Super excited to get these all set up in my new room. Fit and finish on the speakers and sub are superb, and even with the low end older SONY receiver I borrowed from a friend powering two of the speakers, I can already hear the beautiful transparency and detail in them compared to the Aaron floor standing speakers I was using.

I think I am going to go for the Yamaha Aventage separate processor + 11ch power amp to run the show. Reviews seem very positive.

[Audiobuff]

8 hours ago, scottrichardson said:

I think I am going to go for the Yamaha Aventage separate processor + 11ch power amp to run the show. Reviews seem very positive.

 

Which power amp are you planning to get ? Model number ? Also, have a look Marantz AV7703 pre amp.

 

[scottrichardson]

23 minutes ago, Jamo81503564729 said:

Which power amp are you planning to get ? Model number ? Also, have a look Marantz AV7703 pre amp.

The Yamaha MX-A5000 to marry with the separate processor

[Quark]

If you're still looking at the Yamaha power amp, you might want to speak to Peter at Deep Hz as to whether it's suitable. While the PSA speakers you have are very efficient the Yamaha's 650W max power consumption divided by 11 channels and then 70% Class A/B amp efficiency = 41W per channel. 41W is probably fine for surrounds, but I'd worry about clipping and speaker damage for the FL, C & FR.

An alternative to the Yamaha pre/pro is a run-out Marantz AV7702 MK11 - Audyssey XT32 has much better bass equalisation than Yamaha's YPAO. The Marantz is on run-out for $2749 here. The new AV7703 has minimal improvements.

[scottrichardson]

25 minutes ago, Quark said:

If you're still looking at the Yamaha power amp, you might want to speak to Peter at Deep Hz as to whether it's suitable. While the PSA speakers you have are very efficient the Yamaha's 650W max power consumption divided by 11 channels and then 70% Class A/B amp efficiency = 41W per channel. 41W is probably fine for surrounds, but I'd worry about clipping and speaker damage for the FL, C & FR.

An alternative to the Yamaha pre/pro is a run-out Marantz AV7702 MK11 - Audyssey XT32 has much better bass equalisation than Yamaha's YPAO. The Marantz is on run-out for $2749 here. The new AV7703 has minimal improvements.

Hmm... I saw you'd mentioned something similar previously to me. OK so let's back track a little here. My previous receiver was an RX-V3800 which quoted 140w RMS x 7, and I rarely took that louder than -16dB (0 being reference?). I'm unsure what the power supply was on that one, but it was more than powerful enough to have a rather loud system. Now this Yamaha 11ch amp is meant to be their top of the line power amp?

My understanding is this: you are right in that if all channels are playing a continuous sine wave at 1KHz at full power, then the most each channel would get is 41W RMS before clipping from the amp occurs. The reality is, however that music and movies are vastly filled with transient sonics, not constant tones of equal energy. So the power supply would be pushing power out to each channel as it needed it, creating a much more likely scenario of each channel being fed much more than 41W at any given time. 

Correct me if I'm wrong?

Peter at Deep Hz audio actually emailed me to specifically say that the Yamaha would be more than capable of powering the PSA setup, noting that the separate components from Yamaha would be very high quality.

[scottrichardson]

My other option is run the Yamaha pre-processor, then two power amps by Emotiva. likely three variants of these: https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-gen3

A three-channel, plus two four-channel models. The reason for not going a single 7-channel and a 4-channel would be to ensure a more even spread of power to all speakers.

[Quark]

14 minutes ago, scottrichardson said:

Hmm... I saw you'd mentioned something similar previously to me. OK so let's back track a little here. My previous receiver was an RX-V3800 which quoted 140w RMS x 7, and I rarely took that louder than -16dB (0 being reference?). I'm unsure what the power supply was on that one, but it was more than powerful enough to have a rather loud system. Now this Yamaha 11ch amp is meant to be their top of the line power amp?

My understanding is this: you are right in that if all channels are playing a continuous sine wave at 1KHz at full power, then the most each channel would get is 41W RMS before clipping from the amp occurs. The reality is, however that music and movies are vastly filled with transient sonics, not constant tones of equal energy. So the power supply would be pushing power out to each channel as it needed it, creating a much more likely scenario of each channel being fed much more than 41W at any given time. 

Correct me if I'm wrong?

Peter at Deep Hz audio actually emailed me to specifically say that the Yamaha would be more than capable of powering the PSA setup, noting that the separate components from Yamaha would be very high quality.

The 3800 had a max power consumption of 1100W.  Allow say 100W for for the pre/pro components leaves you 1000W divided by 7 channels then 70% efficiency leaves a very decent 100W per channel. Agree most soundtracks won't run high volumes in all channels at once, but I can think of a few that do.

If Peter has OKed the Yamaha knowing that it's 650W spread over 11 channels then you're good to go, if not I'd recommend confirming with him. Most people are gobsmacked with the puny power supply on these power amps, as Yamaha have traditionally been among the best powered of Japanese brands.