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IMDave

Next Generation Jvc's: X5000/7000/9000

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IMDave   

Very exciting news from Ekki at Cine4Home.

The new releases promise more calibrated lumens, finer detail and motion control, with only a small trade off in black levels.

As expected, no 4k and no laser, but............

In Europe and the US they will be cheaper than the models they're replacing!!!

Maybe the last year of procrastination about buying an X500 has paid off, because the X5000 ( and possibly even the X7000) looks spectacular.

https://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2Ftests%2Fprojektoren%2Fjvc_dla_x5000%2Fjvc_dla_x5000_beta-test.htm&edit-text=

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Yes 1700 lumens for the X5000 and 1800 for the 7000 and 9000. Should be able to light up some pretty large screens.

Don't bet on the pricing being that generous here mate given the pounding the dollar has recently taken.

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deandob   

I'm interested in the X7000 (oztheatre sent you a PM re: pricing), and will put my X75 up for sale in a couple of months if anyone is interested.

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I'm interested in the X7000 (oztheatre sent you a PM re: pricing), and will put my X75 up for sale in a couple of months if anyone is interested.

Sing out if/when it comes up dean. ????

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cwt   

Thumbs up for implementing a more future proof full 18gbps hdmi2.0 /2.2 interface at least ; unlike the 10.8gbps of the new sony's :phone: Wonder how the lamps will hold up against the 6000hr spec rated sony's though [ hopefully as good as jvc's have recently ..]

This competitive disadvantage is the JVC engineers obviously finally motivated to do their new X-series future-proof: Because the X5000 / 7000/9000 support this time not only with HDMI2.0 HDCP2.2 copy protection, but also provide with the first projector on the market the full 18GBit / sec bandwidth with a 4K / 60Hz 10bit feed is possible. In this regard, the new X-Series even beats Sony's native 4K projector. Also in regard to "High Dynamic Range" briefly HDR, JVC want this time to be the "first of the party", because this compatibility was announced. HDR should allow a particularly adequate 10bit reproduction of high-contrast images, a theme for the JVC projector with its reference contrast values ​​are predestined

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brodricj   

Cut and paste from AVS...

JVC announced three new European models, the DLA-X5000, X7000, and X9000, which will sell for 4500, 6500, and 10,000 Euros, respectively. All three still use 1080p LCoS panels and JVC's eShift technology, which quickly shifts the pixels back and forth between two positions to simulate 2160p resolution. On the plus side, they all have HDMI 2.0a inputs with HDCP 2.2 that operate at 18 Gbps and will be able to accept HDR signals and display a wide color gamut, though I could find no details about these features. And their rated light output has been increased from 1300 lumens to 1700, 1800, and 1900 lumens, respectively.

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brodricj   

Thumbs up for implementing a more future proof full 18gbps hdmi2.0 /2.2 interface at least ; unlike the 10.8gbps of the new sony's :phone:

Actually the new 4K Sony projectors can support up to 2160p/60 at 10-bit resolution i.e. 18 Gbps. Any reference to 10.8 Gbps is a mis-print.

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cwt   

Actually the new 4K Sony projectors can support up to 2160p/60 at 10-bit resolution i.e. 18 Gbps. Any reference to 10.8 Gbps is a mis-print.

I hope your right beejay but Manni @ avs posted this below vvv which does me . The programming of these chipsets costs money and sony have been dropping things like dynamic irises to meet a price point for true 4k and they are in relatively short supply atm :pinch:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2083082-sony-vpl-hw65-vpl-vw320-vpl-vw520-ifa-2015-a-7.html#post37154706

If buying with the current poor xchange rate Ide want full 18gbps not 10.2 to cover future 4k bd specifications [like the epson 10000 and the jvc's manage]

Edited by cwt

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I will be looking at the x5000 when released so if anyone is after a 9200w with 390 hrs and 5 sets Epson glasses shoot me a pm.

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IMDave   

Actually the new 4K Sony projectors can support up to 2160p/60 at 10-bit resolution i.e. 18 Gbps. Any reference to 10.8 Gbps is a mis-print.

I think Manni @ AVS sums up the current stat of play extremely well here :

Quote " The ability to provide a high resolution is of little value. I honestly would prefer to get P3, 10bits and HDR on bluray in 1080p, at least for the next 2-3 years before we have decent native UHD content. That would allow us to have it in 4:4:4 instead of 4:2:0.

I believe you get a better PQ playing UHD Bluray with a PJ that support 100% of P3 and 10bits at any frame rate (not just up to 30p) than sending native UHD without these picture improvements.

So whether this content is displayed in 1080p, e-shifted or displayed in native 4K makes very little difference.

What people don't realize is that the quality improvement of the UHD content they see on a native 4K PJ has very little to do with the increased resolution, but a lot more to do with better masters, better compression and now with UHD bluray with wider gamut and increased bit depth.

When you look at the bluray of Oblivion or Lucy, do you really think that the increased resolution will make any difference on UHD bluray, given the fact that these will be upscaled to 4K from a 2K DI?

What's going to matter is everything else: wider gamut (100% of P3), 10bits, better compression with HEVC and HDR.

So I honestly couldn't care less about displaying this content in shifted or native 4K.

Eshift doesn't downscale to 1080p, it splits the 4K frame into two 1080p subframes which are displayed to create something in between 2K and 4K. So yes, there is a small gain being able to feed content directly, not necessarily in UHD, but with all the other attributes (P3, 10bits, HDR).

Again, I'd be happy if it was 1080p. It's 1080p in most cinemas, do you think the picture is not good enough? No, what you like isn't 4K (as it's 2K most of the time), it's 10bits 4:4:4 in P3. That's what makes the picture better. Much better than 4K vs 2K, unless you stick your nose to the screen.

It will be really interesting when we have these projectors to compare the same movie (same 4K master used to create the same 2K digital intermediate) in bluray upscaled by the PJ to native 4K (or e-shifted 4K) and the UHD Bluray movie, which will also be upscaled 2K but with HDR, 10bits, HEVC and P3.

I believe that most of the difference in PQ will come from everything else but the resolution increase, simply because I don't think it makes a great difference to upscale in the post-production facility or in the projector.

Hence my preference, for this transition period, for a JVC that does all this but not native 4K, to a PJ that does native 4K and misses on almost everything else, especially given the apparent progress made by JVC with eshift4, based on Ekki's screenshots.

But I agree it doesn't sound as cool and it doesn't give you any bragging rights. smile.gif

Anyway, not expecting to convert you, but that's my reasoning to get the X7000 this year, and wait until everything settles to grab a laser + native 4K fully compliant PJ for less than $10K in 2-3 years. I don't plan to keep it more than 2-3 years though, but in 2-3 years the limitations of the current 4K models will be very apparent, so not sure which will hold its value better. I'm planning to lose less money given that the initial investment is smaller though, and neither can be seen as long term investments. I certainly don't want to wait one more year to make the most of UHD Bluray, but someone who doesn't care could and should wait, or buy a cheaper current model.

If I was in the market for an up to $30000 projector though, I'd definitely wait for the rumoured 1200ES to see whether it does bring native 4K, laser and everything that's missing on the 520ES. But as I'm not considering anything in that price range, I'll happily wait with an X7000 until prices become more reasonable, standards firm up (especially HDR) and native UHD/4K content improves in both quality and quantity." end quote

Those waiting for affordable 4k UHD fully compliant projectors will be continuing to wait for a good many years yet.

Edited by IMDave

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cwt   

I think Manni @ AVS sums up the current stat of play extremely well here :

Quote " The ability to provide a high resolution is of little value. I honestly would prefer to get P3, 10bits and HDR on bluray in 1080p, at least for the next 2-3 years before we have decent native UHD content. That would allow us to have it in 4:4:4 instead of 4:2:0.

Those waiting for affordable 4k UHD fully compliant projectors will be continuing to wait for a good many years yet.

Agree with that Dave ; maybe the p3 colour gamut will be more important than HDR as HDR wont be as good coming from a projector than a high nit oled or lcd panel I get the impression ;) The jvc's high on/off contrast should help with the HDR nonetheless compared to dlp at least..

The improved jvc brightness will help if any filter is applied for p3 as well as Manni notes too :ike:

If it turns out that the loss is only 10 or 15% when the P3 filter is engaged, then being able to display UHD Bluray with a wider gamut might become a consideration in going for a higher model. If you're not interested in supporting 100% of P3 and if you would use the iris wide open, then an X5000 makes more sense than an X7000, unless you need one of the other features like more lens memories.

If you have the option of moving your projector to a shorter throw, this would allow you to get more brightness and might make P3 support and HDR more relevant.

Edited by cwt

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Im holding on to my x35 for another year.Suprising really as the plan was 2 years then upgrade.

Never held onto a projector this long.But am still in awe of the picture.So ill wait to see what JVC give us next year

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sero   

You loose to much when you sell. I think I'll hold onto mine until it dies :) I agree with you the picture is flawless there's No real need to upgrade it!

Edited by HTPC-Guru

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steffan   

im the same with my x500. Although i use it everyday (i don't actually own a tv). The picture is amazing (i watch very little commercial tv so sd content isn't an issue for me). I can see myself keep the x500 for at least another 3 years yet

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MrC   

Im holding on to my x35 for another year.Suprising really as the plan was 2 years then upgrade.

Never held onto a projector this long.But am still in awe of the picture.So ill wait to see what JVC give us next year

And you thought you were holding on .... I still have my 4 year old X3 ... beautiful picture still with the original lamp ... has about 1200 hours on it so far and still going great.

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Im at 1100 hours on my x35.Still very bright.Im at -8 on the iris.

I may wait till 4k bluray is well established before i go 4k on the projector.

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:) al   

only 800 or so clocked up on my x35, still a beaut projector :)

below what zombie over on avs posted last night,

I've had the RS46/X35 stacked with every JVC since it's release, it's still a great projector that has the majority of the overall performance of the current models. 3D has been the same since these 2012 models were released with the 3D 'Fix'. There is speculation that the new models will be brighter in 3D and perhaps less x-talk sooner after boot up due to the high wattage lamp heating up the panels quicker.
I was hoping they were going to have another 'budget' model after they discontinued the RS46/X35. It could have competed with Sony and Epson in the mid 3K price range. Just leave out e-shift and the auto iris features.
kinda puts into perspective. if have an x35. no plans here to change mine out unless to a native 4K/uhd machine. though would be hesitant moving to a sony after a ivc as suspect will be disappointed in the blacks/contrast !

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cwt   

only 800 or so clocked up on my x35, still a beaut projector :)

Will take a good time for 4k players and discs to turn up Al so understand any reticence by members to upgrade ; and the iris is to help the black levels stay similar I gather with the higher lumens . Will be curious about the 3d performance though :)

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IMDave   

Will take a good time for 4k players and discs to turn up Al so understand any reticence by members to upgrade ; and the iris is to help the black levels stay similar I gather with the higher lumens . Will be curious about the 3d performance though :)

+1

Agree that for people watching 5-7hrs/week and having a PJ that has 80% of the performance of the new releases, it's a hard ask to spend big bucks on an "incomplete" upgrade.

On the other hand,for me, having a TW3000 purchased in 2009, moving to JVC blacks,e-Shift4,HDMI2.0 HDCP2.2, and the extra brightness, I can see me keeping an X5000 for 5+ years as well. By that time, everyone will be talking about the upcoming 8k machines and there might be movies that are actually mastered in 4k ( not just upscaled from 2k,like now) and the 4k PJ's might be in my price range.

( Here's hoping anyway) :D

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bandyka   

Anyone know if these will have any better gaming performance? That is the only reason I went with Sony for the prev generation but really don't want fork out over $10k for a new Sony just because the JVC don't do gaming well. I really do hope they have improved on that.

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Anyone know if these will have any better gaming performance? That is the only reason I went with Sony for the prev generation but really don't want fork out over $10k for a new Sony just because the JVC don't do gaming well. I really do hope they have improved on that.

I assume you mean lag time? Good question and not sure just yet.

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