Oled

[IviewHD]

39 minutes ago, JSmith said:

Dell had a 30" back in April and was the only OLED monitor on the market apart from the expensive Sony Pro ones;

 

http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/accessories/apd/210-aiei

 

But it's now discontinued... again and it was $3499USD.

 

JSmith

LG just has to expand there range.They have a 77" coming but a smaller one than 55" would sell for applications other than a living room tv.

[Owen]

The 77" is not new its been available in the US for a year or more, but at the asking price its not a seller, which is probably why LG never sent it down under.

 

 

The Dell 30" was only available for about 3 months before being discontinued. Its not clear why it was discontinued but it must have been a significant issue. It employed a screen saving system that blanked the screen if it detected there was know one sitting in front of it, and an orbiting system to move the image. Don't know how well that would work with a 1:1 mapped PC desktop without moving part of the image off screen. Burn in was obviously a serious concern to employ such protection features.

 

It likley used a Sony RGB OLED panel as I'm not aware of any other supplier of that size. The blue OLED sub pixel has always been a problem due to rapid aging which greatly increased burn in potential and colour drift.

 

The Sony branded pro monitors are set up for a maximum output of 100 nits, the standard for SDR video, and 48 nits, the standard for DCI cinema. Higher output levels are not supported so no HDR.

HDR movies are mastered with LCD displays, nothing else goes bright enough.

 

LG's WOLED which used white OLED's with colour filters is much more stable and can go much brighter, however WOLED has a very poor fill factor making it less suitable as a desktop monitor that you sit very close to as the image will be much more grainy than an RGB LCD with the same number of pixels.

 

[Owen]

19 hours ago, IviewHD said:

honestly the C7 LG OLED smashes it like mayweather against an irish d!ckhead.

It seems you dont calibrate your displays, if you did you would realise that calibrated TV's look almost identical if they can be properly calibrated.

OLED has superb blacks in a dark room but with some ambient light that advantage is lost and OLED, LCD and Plasma TV's should look very very similar once calibrated.

 

So, if the OLED "smashes" the Samsung Plasma there is a serious calibration mismatch.

 

 

[Satanica]

3 minutes ago, Owen said:

OLED has superb blacks in a dark room but with some ambient light that advantage is lost and OLED, LCD and Plasma TV's should look very very similar once calibrated.

Well I see those plasma smashing blacks with the lights off, lights on, curtains open, you name it!

[Owen]

What you are seeing there is the effect of the screen filter, NOT the minimum luminance level of the display, which will not be visible with much light in the room.

The F8500 filter was only reasonable and the ST60 screen filter was quite poor. The VT60 has the best screen filter of any Plasma sold here, and that included the Kuro's.

Remember, under the filter a Plasma screen is light grey just like an old CRT TV, and while a high grade screen filter helps tremendously the best approach is to to keep direct light off the screen.

In my room the VT60 screen looks as black as the bezel, both night and day, and a gloss screen LCD screen looks the same, no visible light output at all until I make the room totally dark. That's when the LCD turns to sh!t and the Plasma is only OK. A bit of bias lighting behind the screen and the Plasma looks black again, a bit more than the LCD looks black.

Since I and many other people dont view a TV in the dark the super low minimum luminance level of OLED is wasted.

 

I have noticed that many current LCD TV's are using aggressive anti reflective screen surfaces. In a situation where significant light falls on the screen, like in a showroom,  black level is heavily degraded due to light diffusion in the screen surface which gives it a grey appearance and washes out the picture. Full gloss screens dont suffer from this but do have reflection problems in the wrong environment.

I must say that the LG OLED's are very forgiving of ambient lighting, but with a bit of care with light management any gloss screen TV works well and looks black.

 

The last time I had a good look at an LG OLED it was right beside a base model SONY LCD with a gloss screen displaying the same free to air content. Both TV's where on the bottom shelf of the display which shaded them from the overhead lighting, the result was that there was no visible difference in black level, both looked as black as the TV's black bezels.

In other respects I much preferred the picture on the cheap Sony LCD because the setup used provided a noticeably more accuracy picture with no dynamic behaviour. The OLED had some sort of dynamic contrast thing going on and was all over the place with large variances from scene to scene, while the Sony was completely stable and accurate to the source.

I expect the OLED's behaviour was due to a "shop mode" that strives for maximum brightness, but it was bloody ugly.

[JSmith]

Plasma be dead... this is probably the best thing to do if busted;

 

 

 

JSmith 

[naggots]

Having both a 50" Kuro and 55" Lg oled in the house I can honestly say the Oled is superior. It's sharper.... less soft edges, more detailed, blacker with better off axis viewing, the colors bounce off the black in a way the Kuro cannot match, there's no way the Kuro black bars look black in comparison, the Oled black bars look like a bezel (which it doesn't have). The TV brightness is about the same in room, no problems in our lounge room with brightness on either screen. At night with the lights dimmed watching a movie the Oled is clearly superior. The Oled delay when switching channels is way better and the smart functions are fantastic. I had the Kuro hooked upto a Mac Mini so it was "smart"ish but the whole LG interface is superior. We never use the Mac Mini on the Oled now other than photos. Also the heat load projecting from the screen is massively reduced. 

 

Both screens have been calibrated, although the Kuro was done a few years ago. I love my Kuro, it's in our bedroom now and never wanted to change, fantastic TV..... but it's 9-10yrs old and looks it. 

 

Roll on the next 10yrs when I get to update again. What I paid for the Kuro in 2009-10 $4500 must = $6k in today's money...... so the Oled is a bargain by comparison. 

 

I wish there was more 4K around, but heh Oz internet speed can't handle everyone streaming it for another few years until they update the NBN to Fiber Optic (as they should've done in the first place)....... but that's another story. 

[Owen]

1 hour ago, JSmith said:

Plasma be dead... this is probably the best thing to do if busted;

Except that there are millions of Plasma TV's in daily use that perform just as well as the day they where made, they are obviously not broken and will live on for years to come.

 

I consider many current TV's "broken" because they have defects out of the box that I would not tolerate in a 10 year old TV.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Owen

[JSmith]

1 hour ago, Owen said:

broken

Geez mate, just having a laff...

 

Is your plasma still boxed up? Many users had them pop and couldn't get them fixed...

 

JSmith

[jutta]

Samsung Service Tech came to look at my F8500 today after my fourth call to Samsung. Luckily it faulted while they were hear. Intermittently does not power up or more often refuses to display a picture but can hear sound.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[metal beat]

11 minutes ago, jutta said:

Samsung Service Tech came to look at my F8500 today after my fourth call to Samsung. Luckily it faulted while they were hear. Intermittently does not power up or more often refuses to display a picture but can hear sound.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Never knew Samsung made OLED tv's   

[jutta]

 
Never knew Samsung made OLED tv's   [emoji4]

Was referring to the plasma aforementioned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IviewHD]

17 hours ago, Owen said:

It seems you dont calibrate your displays, if you did you would realise that calibrated TV's look almost identical if they can be properly calibrated.

OLED has superb blacks in a dark room but with some ambient light that advantage is lost and OLED, LCD and Plasma TV's should look very very similar once calibrated.

 

So, if the OLED "smashes" the Samsung Plasma there is a serious calibration mismatch.

 

 

No use worrying about proper calibration till it has at least 200 hours on the clock but i did look at the setting from flatpanelshd review and i realised that the LG expert dark room mode had the wrong gama profile by default and not the 2.2 that everyone else seems to be using.Now by simply adjusting the OLED light output i found i got it pretty close to my other displays.40 seemed to be pretty good for watching in a dimly lit room and bumping it up to 50 is plenty for a daytime result.

[Guest Sime]

Well, let me see, plasma's are no longer available, and most likely never will be again, therefore their relevance in any future discussion about what's better is redundant. 

 

Totally redundant. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by Sime

[brumby]

True, Plasma TVs are no longer being manufactured and will not be in future.  Therefore looking at them as a NEW tv is a fruitless activity.  My (Kuro) 50" plasma celebrated its tenth birthday last month and is still perfect (at least to these aged eyes).  Were it to disappear in a puff of smoke tomorrow morning, I'd either use the bedroom TV as a stopgap or replace the Kuro with an el cheapo Hisense 55" or 65" LCD 4K TV (well under $2k for the 65") as an interim proposition.

 

Up until very recently, OLED TV was the exclusive preserve of LG.  Meanwhile, the TV makers were going through the ludicrous exercises of curved screens and 3D.  Thankfully, both gimmicks have now been largely junked and Panasonic and Sony have entered the OLED fray.  It's now just a matter of time until OLED either proves itself and becomes the new benchmark or until something else comes along.  Either way, prices will come down.    I just got an email from Aussie Broadband telling me they'll be "installing" my NBN on September 22   If all goes well we will be entering the world of streaming and Hi Def will become much more relevant to our viewing.  At that point, I'll take a good look at OLED.  For what we watch now, mostly FTA, OLED is overkill to the nth degree. 

[JSmith]

... actually, Samsung had the first large consumer accessible RGB OLED display on the market (apart from the 11" Sony). There were yield problems (like only 1 in 8 were viable), which they hoped would decrease once they started production and refined the technique. That didn't happen and they stopped making them. A damn shame as the PQ was superb.

 

Samsung are now working on µLED.

 

All large consumer OLED panels are currently the WOLED panel produced by LG using the colour filter over the top.

 

JSmith

[Addicted to music]

The Panasonic OLED.

 

would i pay for one....tempting....but I'll pass......

[mwd]

On 9/8/2017 at 2:13 PM, Owen said:

The 77" is not new its been available in the US for a year or more, but at the asking price its not a seller, which is probably why LG never sent it down under.

 

 

2

I think you will find Harvey Norman had the 77" LG W7 for $40,000.00 when they were first introduced into Australia earlier this year.

[Satanica]

On 9/8/2017 at 3:51 PM, Owen said:

What you are seeing there is the effect of the screen filter, NOT the minimum luminance level of the display, which will not be visible with much light in the room.

The F8500 filter was only reasonable and the ST60 screen filter was quite poor. The VT60 has the best screen filter of any Plasma sold here, and that included the Kuro's.

Remember, under the filter a Plasma screen is light grey just like an old CRT TV, and while a high grade screen filter helps tremendously the best approach is to to keep direct light off the screen.

In my room the VT60 screen looks as black as the bezel, both night and day, and a gloss screen LCD screen looks the same, no visible light output at all until I make the room totally dark. That's when the LCD turns to sh!t and the Plasma is only OK. A bit of bias lighting behind the screen and the Plasma looks black again, a bit more than the LCD looks black.

Since I and many other people dont view a TV in the dark the super low minimum luminance level of OLED is wasted.

 

I have noticed that many current LCD TV's are using aggressive anti reflective screen surfaces. In a situation where significant light falls on the screen, like in a showroom,  black level is heavily degraded due to light diffusion in the screen surface which gives it a grey appearance and washes out the picture. Full gloss screens dont suffer from this but do have reflection problems in the wrong environment.

I must say that the LG OLED's are very forgiving of ambient lighting, but with a bit of care with light management any gloss screen TV works well and looks black.

 

The last time I had a good look at an LG OLED it was right beside a base model SONY LCD with a gloss screen displaying the same free to air content. Both TV's where on the bottom shelf of the display which shaded them from the overhead lighting, the result was that there was no visible difference in black level, both looked as black as the TV's black bezels.

In other respects I much preferred the picture on the cheap Sony LCD because the setup used provided a noticeably more accuracy picture with no dynamic behaviour. The OLED had some sort of dynamic contrast thing going on and was all over the place with large variances from scene to scene, while the Sony was completely stable and accurate to the source.

I expect the OLED's behaviour was due to a "shop mode" that strives for maximum brightness, but it was bloody ugly.

Thanks for the explanation but of course it is irrelevant to the fact I see better blacks with my OLED compared to my previous plasma.

Seemingly once again there's no reason for you to spend any money and replace your plasma with an OLED.

[Owen]

5 hours ago, Satanica said:

Thanks for the explanation but of course it is irrelevant to the fact I see better blacks with my OLED compared to my previous plasma.

Well its obvious you made a good decision, enjoy. 

 

5 hours ago, Satanica said:

Seemingly once again there's no reason for you to spend any money and replace your plasma with an OLED.

Its not about money mate, TV's are cheap, its about the best device to do the required job with the content I view on a TV in the environment in which I view. Plasma simply does that job better than anything else.

I purchased the 65VT60 as a spare TV, it sat in its box for a year before or more before I needed to used it. I never owned a Plasma before the VT because they where too small, and going down to a 65" has not been ideal, but it way better than putting up with an LCD that doesn't perform well with the low quality source that is the only content I view on a TV. I'm not just talking about free to air TV either, Netflix and Foxtel HD IS low quality source as far as I am concerned.

 

For Bluray movie viewing in a DARK room the 65VT60 was never any good as far as I am concerned, black level too high and picture WAY too small. Not a suitable display for the job so I never use it for movie viewing.

 

[Satanica]

@Owen Totally understand your opinion and agree with it for you. But I think your requirements for a TV are uncommon, rare even, so not really applicable to anyone else, especially the average Joe. The vast majority of people want a TV that's robust, runs cool, runs efficient and has great picture quality and plasmas generally fail in at least one of those essential qualities and that's why they're extinct. And that's why LCD dominated them and that's why OLED has essentially replaced them.

 

Oh and I would put Foxtel HD and Netflix in the mid not low quality level. For me low quality is SD free to air TV and DVD. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Satanica

[MLXXX]

19 hours ago, Satanica said:

Oh and I would put Foxtel HD and Netflix in the mid not low quality level. For me low quality is SD free to air TV and DVD.

Without expressing an opinion on the question of OLED vs Plasma vs LCD,  I broadly agree with the above remarks Satanica has made about relative video source quality.

I would add in relation to Netflix Australia, that the 4K titles can be spectacular. For example I've found that Grace & Frankie streaming at 2160p often delivers subjectively greater visible  detail (visual resolution) on my 65" 4K TV screen than I've seen coming from any Full HD Blu-ray disc.

 

(I note that to receive a 4K Netflix title stream at 4K, it's a prerequisite to connect to the internet with a Netflix approved 4K compatible device. )

[MELso]

Well, my Panasonic OLED's panel slowly appears to be coming good.

 

It's now run up 40 hours, with 10 auto compensation cycles and 1 manual comp cycle complete. The vignetting in the corners, while still present, has faded notably (when I first started checking at 16 hours, the bottom left hand corner was so black that I didn't even realise there was '5%' showing on the greyscale slide I was using. The '5%' is now quite pronounced). There's still a light bar, a dark line, a swirl on the left hand side and a bit of vignetting in the bottom right corner, but on the whole, it's not too noticeable now. 

[betty boop]

5 minutes ago, MELso said:

Well, my Panasonic OLED's panel slowly appears to be coming good.

 

It's now run up 40 hours, with 10 auto compensation cycles and 1 manual comp cycle complete. The vignetting in the corners, while still present, has faded notably (when I first started checking at 16 hours, the bottom left hand corner was so black that I didn't even realise there was '5%' showing on the greyscale slide I was using. The '5%' is now quite pronounced). There's still a light bar, a dark line, a swirl on the left hand side and a bit of vignetting in the bottom right corner, but on the whole, it's not too noticeable now. 

 

whats all this about melso, is this a standard feature of oled or something ?  i know panels like plasmas can take some 200 hours to settle down where have to make sure not on shop settings and such, but have not heard anything like above with any panel ?  is this typical of oled ?

[MELso]

OLEDs have a feature that no-one except LG's engineers seems to know how it works. It's called 'pixel refresh' on LGs (it used to be 'clear panel noise') and 'panel maintenance' on my Panasonic. They basically are designed to reduce the risk of burn in, but have the neat side effect of reducing the banding and vignetting on OLED panels. There are two cycles: one that runs after 4 hours of viewing automatically for 8-10 minutes, and one that is manually engaged and should be run for 60-80 minutes after 2000 hours. On my Panasonic, the light on the front turns orange when it's running.

 

At any rate, it's why you shouldn't be sending back OLEDs straight away if you notice problems but should rather wait them out to see if the panel gets cleaned up over the course of a few cycles...