Will Dolby Atmos and DTS:X be the new standard or a short lived trend like 3D TV?

[Serpeant]

I am considering upgrading my 5.1 theatre set up to Dolby Atmos with some ceiling speakers.

It is quite a costly affair with new speakers installed and a new amp, etc.

There arent a lot of blu-ray titles that support Dolby Atmos or DTS:X right now and I'm wondering if it will be worth it?

It will be justified if most/all movies in the near future will be released with a good Dolby Atmos soundtrack.

It would not be worth it if is is like 3D movies where there are only a select few since it hasnt really caught on. In hind sight, I didnt need to get my 3D TV.

What are your thoughts?

[Satanica]

There are still plenty of 3D movies released: http://www.blu-ray.com/3d/

Terminator 2 is coming!

[powerav]

Exactly the same post on DTV forum but with more responses and even form Stereonet mods, maybe DTV should taker over Stereonet.

[Primare Knob]

That will depend on what you mean by Atmos and DTS-X

 

The programing and technical possibilities behind the two formats are here to stay. It gives recording studios much more flexibility and possibilities without the big headache for which, end user group it is meant for. Atmos and DTS-X don't necessarily need to have the extra height channels. Surround sound is already a small market and Atmos/DTS-X are going to be a small part of this market. Since it takes a different approach than the HD codecs and an new investment for studio's they are more than likely waiting to see which format is going to come out on top before committing to it. Bigger studio with bigger budgets can afford to be the front runners with this but not everyone has the same budget. If this was all driven by consumer base, than it wouldn't have had a future from the start. The majority of (home) consumer only sees the extra channels, extra speakers and extra investment and has little interest for this.

[cwt]

On ‎23‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 4:12 PM, Serpeant said:

I am considering upgrading my 5.1 theatre set up to Dolby Atmos with some ceiling speakers.

It is quite a costly affair with new speakers installed and a new amp, etc.

There arent a lot of blu-ray titles that support Dolby Atmos or DTS:X right now and I'm wondering if it will be worth it?

It will be justified if most/all movies in the near future will be released with a good Dolby Atmos soundtrack.

It would not be worth it if is is like 3D movies where there are only a select few since it hasnt really caught on. In hind sight, I didnt need to get my 3D TV.

What are your thoughts?

I tend to look at the whole ecosystem Serpeant not just atmos bd;s but streaming services and mass market devices like  x box and xbox one , remember a major reason we have bluray was the ps3 ..

https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/dolby-atmos-coming-to-netflix

People have made a new 4k uhd display purchase and they want the best quality to utilise it and that's why studios plonk the best audio on those platforms ; nobody wants next best when they are paying to improve anyway 

Heres a good read on why the 2 delivery methods will coexist ; there will always be perfectionists [us] and those who have adequate network coverage are another[ growing] niche - a streamed 4k uhd movie can look better than a standard  bluray..

https://www.engadget.com/2016/01/20/4k-bluray-already-dead/

btw I just lucked out on the jb 3 for 2 offer ; 3x 3d movies 2 with atmos for around $20 ; can pay to wait 

[darth vader]

I just bought a new Atmos enabled receiver for other reasons than its Atmos capability, but I've been curious about this question too.

 

Dolby seems to have gone about this a different way in that they have got the speaker manufactures on board. Although the Atmos enabled speaker toppers are stupid expensive for what they are, Dolby has at least had the sense to work the problem from a different angle and make the tech available to consumers. I guess the theory being if they get enough consumers motivated then the industry will supply to demand and make the soundtracks available in more releases.

 

The thing that puts me off is hearing that DTS:X wont be compatible with Atmos. So DTS:X will also have to get speaker makers to make their design. And again we get the 4 channel quadraphonic or VHS-Beta situation.

 

Bluray has worked as they got their collective heads together to sort out the bluray-dual layer thing before it became an issue. Without the consumer on side, theres no future or hunger for new formats, no matter the promise of nirvana. Buy not working together, their corporate hunger for market leadership alienates the very concept they want to sell to consumers

 

Only hope is there is talk of the speaker makers being able to come up with possible work arounds in the future so both formats can be utilised from one speaker. From what I can see the hold up is all in patents on their "filters".

So how far away is this future and will it hit the market before the interest in adding expensive speakers and/or lots of house wiring fades...?

Edited September 23, 2017 by darth vader

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, darth vader said:

Dolby seems to have gone about this a different way in that they have got the speaker manufactures on board. Although the Atmos enabled speaker toppers are stupid expensive for what they are, Dolby has at least had the sense to work the problem from a different angle and make the tech available to consumers. I guess the theory being if they get enough consumers motivated then the industry will supply to demand and make the soundtracks available in more releases.

you mean the bounce off the ceiling way ? the toppers are stupid expensive and if you can do in ceilings or on ceilings in anyways I would suggest that rather in less than a heartbeat. I havent heard one toppers demo I've found convincing. and yet not heard one demo that found in ceilings(where properly setup) not to be quite a step up from not having them

 

the beauty with either dolby surround or dts-neural x is that with any software they add a massive amount. I can for instance demo you mr and mrs smith the bit where he is on top of the car.... and gee this is a blu-ray long before atmos or dts-x was a twinkle in anyones eye and dolby surround does a massive impressive job of you hearing brad pit moving around on your ceiling ... as though you are in the car ! thats how effective they have made this.

 

1 hour ago, darth vader said:

The thing that puts me off is hearing that DTS:X wont be compatible with Atmos. So DTS:X will also have to get speaker makers to make their design. And again we get the 4 channel quadraphonic or VHS-Beta situation.

who has said this stupid thing that its not compatible ? dts-x is speaker position agnostic and will indeed work with dolby surround arrangements. unless you mean the topper thing, well I dont believe that works all that well with dolby atmos in itself so expecting it to work with dts-x is likely drawing a long bow.

 

I only run one arrangement of speakers and it works very effectively I think for atmos or dts-x  and its supposed to if you follow the suggestions in speaker arrangements

 

1 hour ago, darth vader said:

Only hope is there is talk of the speaker makers being able to come up with possible work arounds in the future so both formats can be utilised from one speaker.

there is no work around required DV. I spent a lot of time....2 years infact making d a mn sure my setup would do both. infact I didnt make one hole in my ceiling or run one cable till I was sure. and it has proved out since

 

there is nothing to wait for

 

[darth vader]

I'm new to this @:) al

I'm only going off what I've read on the net. And if its on the net it must be true, lol

 

What I posted has come mostly off the Dolby sites/links. I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

 

I've not had the time or opportunity to demo such gear. I'm hoping that there is some such vendors at this years show that might give the chance to confirm what I've read.

 

As an aside, I did find some sites that were playing with speaker toppers that were basically just some modified bookshelf speakers that showed some promise. This did cause me to consider the truth in the marketing hype and where marketing crossed over with truth.

 

Would it be unreasonable to expect that one could use some old bookshelf speakers as Atmos or DTS;X speakers?

[powerav]

4 hours ago, darth vader said:

 

Would it be unreasonable to expect that one could use some old bookshelf speakers as Atmos or DTS;X speakers?

You can use any speaker, just depends on how you want to fix them to your ceiling.

Something like this but wouldn't be as good as in-ceiling.

[betty boop]

6 hours ago, darth vader said:

I'm new to this @:) al

I'm only going off what I've read on the net. And if its on the net it must be true, lol

 

What I posted has come mostly off the Dolby sites/links. I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

 

~

 

hi dv, unfortunately a lot of rubbish can find on the net too.

 

there is one definitive guide to speaker setup for atmos and its on the dolby site 

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/index.html

 

once you pick the speaker location looking at, whether its 

 

essential

reference 

or enhanced

 

click on one of the buttons for speaker layout and will take you to for a 7.1.4 setup for instance

 

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/7-1-4-setups.html

 

on the right will see

• 7.1.4 Home Theater Speaker Setup Guides

  Optimize your Dolby Atmos sound system with this step-by-step guide to the best speaker setup.

  • 7.1.4 Overhead Speaker Setup Guide
  • 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos Enabled Speaker Setup Guide

also right down the bottom of the page can click between the 1) upward firing or 2) ceiling speaker setup

which also give some basic placement and speaker requirements

 

6 hours ago, darth vader said:

I've not had the time or opportunity to demo such gear. I'm hoping that there is some such vendors at this years show that might give the chance to confirm what I've read.

 

As an aside, I did find some sites that were playing with speaker toppers that were basically just some modified bookshelf speakers that showed some promise. This did cause me to consider the truth in the marketing hype and where marketing crossed over with truth.

 

Would it be unreasonable to expect that one could use some old bookshelf speakers as Atmos or DTS;X speakers?

 

please do take opportunity to demo. we are very fortunate in melbourne with the plethora of stores and the effort many have gone in to do implement. stores I've visited doing a great job of it are tivoli, carlton audio visual and audio trends for instance and have no doubt others as well. these are with in ceiling setups as I mentioned the few had show me "topper" setups as you call them were very disappointing. hit miss i would suggest, more miss than hit. the in ceiling setups were all done well. I am not particularly sure if you HAVE to have a topper style setup. but if can go with conventional in ceiling or on ceiling just any in ceiling speakers or conventional speakers will do. honestly and every maker just about i know make in ceilings to go wiht their regular range of speakers nothing particularly "atmos capable" or anything about them

 

re the show and vendors. go for a bit of fun, but i would visit the stores for getting a decent appreciation i would suggest also give opportunity to talk to these guys at bit more length than the busy atmosphere of a show allows. I spent a lot of time demoing i had luxury of time a couple of years. many of the retailer have put a bit of effort in and quite knowledgeable. 

 

 

 

 

 

[blakey72]

Atmos what's that? My 2 channel gives surround sound

[blakey72]

Seriously I'd go for Atmos. Seems to be catching on. From what I've read if you like surround you'll love Atmos. 

[cwt]

On ‎24‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 2:02 AM, darth vader said:

As an aside, I did find some sites that were playing with speaker toppers that were basically just some modified bookshelf speakers that showed some promise. This did cause me to consider the truth in the marketing hype and where marketing crossed over with truth.

 

Would it be unreasonable to expect that one could use some old bookshelf speakers as Atmos or DTS;X speakers?

Another good reason to go with proper ceiling speaker DV is your room eq .Reflective toppers have hi pass filters complicating your bass management [ as Andrew Jones notes about  pioneer avrs 180hz isn't too good for your bass frequencies xover ]  not to mention HRTF post processing to alter your signal ..

Quote

At CEDIA, 2014, Dr. Floyd Toole made a presentation regarding the directionally sensitive resonant modes in the external ear and our strong reliance on high frequency transients for localization.  He demonstrated that the Dolby EQ curve did NOT agree with this science, and wondered if it could be improved or even eliminated since the human ear already accounts for it. He also showed that there is more predictability with resonances than nulls for creating the elevated perception of sound

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/dolby-atmos-elevation-speaker/dolby-atmos-elevation-speakers-p2

As to auto room eq some components have the horsepower to a/c for ceiling speakers as well as the bed speakers ; its a choice as to whether your happy with the bed channels only .

[Mobe1969]

That comment on the Mr and Mrs Smith demo above piqued my interest. I have been wondering if a 4 speaker overhead setup would get much of any use in non Atmos titles. So I take it you do?

 

Eg say you have a 5.1.4 setup and are listening to a 7.1 soundtrack. Does anything to to the uppers?

[betty boop]

20 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

That comment on the Mr and Mrs Smith demo above piqued my interest. I have been wondering if a 4 speaker overhead setup would get much of any use in non Atmos titles. So I take it you do?

absolutely !!! anyone who has a 3D audio setup will tell you that, with what magic dolby surround weaves for non native tracks and what DTS neural X does for plain dts-hdma tracks. its absolutely amazing actually what does. dont have to have only native 3D audio tracks to enjoy a 3D audio setup.

 

23 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

Eg say you have a 5.1.4 setup and are listening to a 7.1 soundtrack. Does anything to to the uppers?

 cant tell you how it re- images but what these setups do is utilise the speakers you have to recreate a sound field to place objects.

 

if you can do a 7.1.2 or 7.1.2 setup id do that in preference to a 5..1.4 or 5.1.2 is all can mange in the room id say still go for it. it really is worth it for level of realism and enjoyment factor it adds to the experience

[Mobe1969]

5 minutes ago, al said:

absolutely !!! anyone who has a 3D audio setup will tell you that, with what magic dolby surround weaves for non native tracks and what DTS neural X does for plain dts-hdma tracks. its absolutely amazing actually what does. dont have to have only native 3D audio tracks to enjoy a 3D audio setup.

 

 cant tell you how it re- images but what these setups do is utilise the speakers you have to recreate a sound field to place objects.

 

if you can do a 7.1.2 or 7.1.2 setup id do that in preference to a 5..1.4 or 5.1.2 is all can mange in the room id say still go for it. it really is worth it for level of realism and enjoyment factor it adds to the experience

Thanks Al. I like the idea of the 4 overheads, a ring of speakers, and a ring of speakers on the lower plane. I'm thinking about 7. But the receiver options without needing an amp is somewhat limited.