Hippy Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Just wondering.... I'm in the middle of making some new bookshelf size speakers and was thinking I might put the crossovers in external boxes to make it easier to change. Do they get hot enough to need any sort of ventilation or can the enclosure be sealed? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanArn Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 If the inductors have low DC resistance and the capacitors have a low esr, then the only components that will warm up will be any resistors in an impedance correction network or used as attenuators in a tweeter or midrange connection. The speakers themselves will dissipate far more heat as a result of the low efficiency of bookshelf speakers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Hippy said: Just wondering.... I'm in the middle of making some new bookshelf size speakers and was thinking I might put the crossovers in external boxes to make it easier to change. Do they get hot enough to need any sort of ventilation or can the enclosure be sealed? Cheers IMO external boxes for the XOs are recommended - I know some Naim speakers from a few decades ago sounded better when the XOs were removed from inside the speaker boxes. The reason - the XOs were no longer bombarded with air-borne vibrations! Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippy Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 Cheers fellas. I didn't think it would matter either way but I can see how less vibrations would possibly help. Hard wired to the speakers or binding post connections is fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zog Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I put my "econowave" speaker crossovers in external boxes to make it easy to dabble with active crossovers. They have been fine mounted in $5 jiffy boxes. No heat issues. It does mean there's extra "stuff" to deal with hanging around behind the speaker boxes... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobbyD Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 3 hours ago, andyr said: IMO external boxes for the XOs are recommended - I know some Naim speakers from a few decades ago sounded better when the XOs were removed from inside the speaker boxes. The reason - the XOs were no longer bombarded with air-borne vibrations! Andy Agree, but boxes are not required if you keep it simple. XO for my woofers........bamboo chopping board and some jarrah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 21 minutes ago, SETSergio said: Agree, but boxes are not required if you keep it simple. XO for my woofers........bamboo chopping board and some jarrah. That's not a crossover - this is a crossover! Andy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobbyD Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, andyr said: That's not a crossover - this is a crossover! Andy I love it.... very tasty.....alas I need only 1 inductor..... my signal travels least..... KISS.... keep it simple Sergio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippy Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 So I made a bit of a start cutting out some MDF for layering into smallish boxes and bought some binding posts.... If it works out good Ill recut the boxes out of solid timber. Planning on a clear acrylic top with M4 stainless button head bolts to hold it down. A work in progress..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrmax Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Quote IMO external boxes for the XOs are recommended - I know some Naim speakers from a few decades ago sounded better when the XOs were removed from inside the speaker boxes. It get's even better when you get rid of passive xo's all together .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 4 hours ago, murrmax said: It get's even better when you get rid of passive xo's all together .. Totally agree! I went 3-way analogue active nearly 20 years ago ... and last year replaced my analogue active XOs (Rod Elliot's P09, modified to give 18/12/12/12dB) with a miniDSP 10x10. The flexibility of a digital crossover is amazing! Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Totally agree! I went 3-way analogue active nearly 20 years ago ... and last year replaced my analogue active XOs (Rod Elliot's P09, modified to give 18/12/12/12dB) with a miniDSP 10x10. The flexibility of a digital crossover is amazing! [emoji3] Andy Do you hear any 'digital' compared to the analog XO you used to have?Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Happy said: Do you hear any 'digital' compared to the analog XO you used to have? No I don't, David. I suppose that means I must have cloth ears! Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Range Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) On 18/08/2017 at 10:32 PM, andyr said: That's not a crossover - this is a crossover! Andy E Hmmm No this is an external crossover Edited August 25, 2017 by Full Range 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 50 minutes ago, Full Range said: E Hmmm No this is an external crossover Indeed!! Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippy Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 Ran the second half of the program today before the kids talked me into taking them climbing.... Just need to get them off the machine and glue them together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrmax Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Quote Do you hear any 'digital' compared to the analog XO you used to have? Why would you ? the digital conversion and signal manipulation happens in DSP before the conversion to analogue via a dac .. the analogue signal gets passed to the amps then to the speakers. All you will hear is an increase in dynamics and clarity with reduced distortion.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Do you hear any 'digital' compared to the analog XO you used to have? Why would you ? the digital conversion and signal manipulation happens in DSP before the conversion to analogue via a dac .. the analogue signal gets passed to the amps then to the speakers. All you will hear is an increase in dynamics and clarity with reduced distortion.. Well many believe DA conversion engraves this abominable certain sonic colouration/degradation to the original sound whatever that may be so Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrmax Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 Quote Well many believe DA conversion engraves this abominable certain sonic colouration/degradation to the original sound whatever that may be so well . if you're talking vinyl then yes you will have to convert the analogue signal to digital then back to analogue. However I would argue that the benefits you gain from manipulating the signal to suit your room, speakers, preferences outweigh any gains from a 'purity' of existing source material. And to that note the original recording is usually recorded and manipulated in the digital domain by the engineers to make it sound like they want it to; before it's pressed to a master, so analogue is never pure analog anyway ... So in reality the signal has gone from Analogue to digital then back to analogue before you get it on vinyl anyway. If you are using a CD player or digital source then there is NO additional conversion that happens with an active XO vs a passive one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 Well many believe DA conversion engraves this abominable certain sonic colouration/degradation to the original sound whatever that may be so well . if you're talking vinyl then yes you will have to convert the analogue signal to digital then back to analogue. However I would argue that the benefits you gain from manipulating the signal to suit your room, speakers, preferences outweigh any gains from a 'purity' of existing source material. And to that note the original recording is usually recorded and manipulated in the digital domain by the engineers to make it sound like they want it to; before it's pressed to a master, so analogue is never pure analog anyway ... So in reality the signal has gone from Analogue to digital then back to analogue before you get it on vinyl anyway. If you are using a CD player or digital source then there is NO additional conversion that happens with an active XO vs a passive one. Yeah of course not but good old Andy his main source is vinyl Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 1 hour ago, murrmax said: well. if you're talking vinyl then yes you will have to convert the analogue signal to digital then back to analogue. However I would argue that the benefits you gain from manipulating the signal to suit your room, speakers, preferences outweigh any gains from a 'purity' of existing source material. +1!! Except you should've said "outweigh any losses from a 'purity' of existing source material PoV". 1 hour ago, murrmax said: If you are using a CD player or digital source then there is NO additional conversion that happens with an active XO vs a passive one. True if you are comparing analogue active XO to (analogue!) passive XO. But if you move to a digital active XO then you can save one D2A conversion, for your digital sources! IOW: for my current setup, I take the analogue output from my CDP and DAB+ tuner to feed into my (analogue) preamp... and I need to use a D2A for my Foxtel box, to also be able to feed into the preamp. for my future setup, I will feed my phono stage into a 24/192kHz A2D converter and then feed this output into the digital input of my miniDSP. I can also then use the default digital output of the CDP, DAB+ tuner and Foxtel box into the miniDSP - saving a D2A conversion. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Happy said: Yeah of course not but good old Andy his main source is vinyl Yes it most certainly is, David. But, as I've said ... I don't notice any sonic degradation - probably due to the advantages which murrmax stated. And once I use the external A2D converter on my vinyl ... I will be getting a far higher quality conversion to digital than what the in-built A2D converters in the miniDSP can deliver. So it's a win-win, IMO! Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zog Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 On the speakers with the crossovers I posted earlier I still use them in passive mode, as they have been relegated to the bedroom and I want to minimise amps and cables and stuff. But my experiment with active crossover on them (miniDSP) led to me making a larger active system. My active system is MUCH more sensitive to amp (and pre-amp) noise, I really have to be picky with amps for it due to the additional sensitivity, plus obviously twice the amps and cabling (2 way system). All my systems are all digital source (except for one "guest input" for visiting DJs :-) ) so the A->D stuff mentioned above is not an issue for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippy Posted August 26, 2017 Author Share Posted August 26, 2017 All cut and glued up. and a clear acrylic cover cut from 3mm acrylic. Got to get some SS M4 button heads to hold the lid on as buried some M4 rivnuts in the 2nd to top layer. Now to paint etc and put the binding posts and such on.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippy Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 So Im done with the Xover boxes finally...the binding posts took forever to arrive from China. The LSK and Dayton logos I engraved into the back of the lid so the top would be smooth. Im now thinking the boxes need to be a tiny bit bigger, not quite as tall, and out of a proper timber. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts