New Aurealis Cinemag 1254 "Deluxe?” SUT nearly ready

[MattyW]

Ok, so Geoff at Aurealis has been modifying my Cinemag 1254 transformers to be switchable between 10x, 20x and 40x gain settings with an MM bypass and 3x switchable inputs. Geoff has sent through some photos and I must say it's looking absolutely fantastic. Geoff has said it's sounding every bit as good as before adding the extra switching which is a fantastic result.

 

Anyway, here is Geoff's excellent handiwork:

 

 

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[Guest Runaway]

One of Geoff's earlier work - two input specific for the Lyra cart.  I put it away soon after I received it but found it again recently and is much impressed by its performance and quietness.

 

[MattyW]

It looks like how mine started off (though the case was black). I acquired it from another SNA'er a while ago for a greatly discounted price.

 

Geoff has been able to make all 3 gain levels the Cinemag 1254 is capable of available along with bypass for high output carts.

 

This is a first as even the guys at Cinemag don't know how to do this. Three inputs make it ideal for running multiple arms.

 

Geoff has mentioned that the solid steel box seems to be getting even better performance than the aluminium bodies so I'm really looking forward to trying it out. Not to mention it looks really incredible.

 

Unfortunately Geoff has said it's not economically feasible to offer this to the market though I'm unaware of any other ready made SUT sold today has this functionality.

 

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[Guest Hensa]

Geoff's MC step-ups are one of the great bargains in hi-fi! That he's on our Aussie doorstep, offers customer service second to none and is an absolute gentleman makes buying from him all the sweeter!

I'm currently using one of his Raphaelite step-ups into the PS Audio GCPH and preferring it to the MC stage of the GCPH.

Highly recommended!


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[MattyW]

Geoff's MC step-ups are one of the great bargains in hi-fi! That he's on our Aussie doorstep, offers customer service second to none and is an absolute gentleman makes buying from him all the sweeter!

I'm currently using one of his Raphaelite step-ups into the PS Audio GCPH and preferring it to the MC stage of the GCPH.

Highly recommended!


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Agree 100%. Geoff is wonderful to deal with and I've had many wonderful and informative discussions with him. I can't recommend him enough

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[andyr]

4 minutes ago, Hensa said:

Geoff's MC step-ups are one of the great bargains in hi-fi! That he's on our Aussie doorstep, offers customer service second to none and is an absolute gentleman makes buying from him all the sweeter!

I'm currently using one of his Raphaelite step-ups into the PS Audio GCPH and preferring it to the MC stage of the GCPH.

Highly recommended!

 

But Greg - is that because the SUT is giving a better load to the cart that the GCPH gave, to the same cart?

 

Andy

 

[Guest Hensa]

 
But Greg - is that because the SUT is giving a better load to the cart that the GCPH gave, to the same cart?
 
Andy
 

The load with the transformer is 250 Ohms versus 500 Ohms with the internal MC stage so that may be a factor. I don't have the 250 Ohm option with the internal MC stage so can't test that.


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[metal beat]

On 15/08/2017 at 5:48 PM, MattyW said:

 

Ok, so Geoff at Aurealis has been modifying my Cinemag 1254 transformers to be switchable between 10x, 20x and 40x gain settings with an MM bypass and 3x switchable inputs. Geoff has sent through some photos and I must say it's looking absolutely fantastic. Geoff has said it's sounding every bit as good as before adding the extra switching which is a fantastic result.

 

Anyway, here is Geoff's excellent handiwork:

 

 

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Is it internally wired for the additional switching with copper or silver wire?

[MattyW]

Not sure, we'd need to check with Geoff on that.

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[Guest gmdb]

Matt just keeps coming up with these challenges.  Like putting the old but great FR tonearms on the very modern Aldebaran turntable.  It worked brilliantly. There were couple of hiccups with some carts which were solved by having a headshell with azimuth adjustment.

 

Next Matt asked if I could rebuild one of my standard Cinemag 1254 SUTs with 3 input switching via a standard rotary switch and all gains available plus an MM bypass via a second rotary switch.  My first reaction was that it couldn't be done, but then I found a 12 pole 4 way switch with 3 milliohm contact resistance, and it looked like it might be possible.  But the wiring on it is extremely complex, and it was only thanks to the advice of a local rotary switch guru @tesla13BMW that I managed to resolve the circuit.  

 

Despite all the switching and wiring involved, I'm not detecting any obvious fall off in sound quality, and I have a half decent if somewhat esoteric system.  The switch we used BTW is from Electroswitch in the US, and David from Cinemag confirmed this morning that the company is known for exceptional quality. They're not cheap but they're not audiophile prices either. 

[MattyW]

You've a wonderful system there Geoff. Those Coral speakers of yours sound fantastic. I really need to have a listen to your modified AR XA table

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[Guest gmdb]

24 minutes ago, metal beat said:

 

Is it internally wired for the additional switching with copper or silver wire?

It's mil spec silver-plated copper - 28 awg in teflon insulation.  The gauge, the insulation, and the silver-plated copper are perfect for this unit.  I've tried UPOCC copper and UPOCC silver and in these small runs from RCAs to switches, the mil spec wire performs the same.  But it has to be 28 awg to get the results - as would pure copper or silver for that matter. 

[andyr]

10 hours ago, Hensa said:

 

The load with the transformer is 250 Ohms versus 500 Ohms with the internal MC stage so that may be a factor. I don't have the 250 Ohm option with the internal MC stage so can't test that.
 

 

 

You could use a pair of 'Y' or 'T' connectors into the internal MC stage and have a 500 ohm loaded plug in one of the inputs, for each channel ... with the phono cable in the other input.  With 500 ohms selected on the MC phono stage ... that would give you a 250 ohm load.

 

Andy

[Guest Hensa]

20 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

You could use a pair of 'Y' or 'T' connectors into the internal MC stage and have a 500 ohm loaded plug in one of the inputs, for each channel ... with the phono cable in the other input.  With 500 ohms selected on the MC phono stage ... that would give you a 250 ohm load.

 

Andy

 

I could do that but considering that I've consistently preferred the Benz Wood on a higher impedance (500, 800, 1k Ohms) than 100 or 200 Ohms, I'm not terribly concerned to try 250 Ohms on the GCPH. If anything, I think the 500 Ohms is an advantage to the GCPH in the first place.

[andyr]

5 hours ago, Hensa said:

 

I could do that but considering that I've consistently preferred the Benz Wood on a higher impedance (500, 800, 1k Ohms) than 100 or 200 Ohms, I'm not terribly concerned to try 250 Ohms on the GCPH. If anything, I think the 500 Ohms is an advantage to the GCPH in the first place.

 

Absoloootely! 

 

You might find 1200 ohms sounds better than 1K - ie. 100x coil resistance.  (That's what I'm running my LP at (100x).  )

 

Given you say the Benz + SUT sounds better ... I assume this is using the GCPH MM input?  Or is the SUT plugged into a different phono stage ... which is better than the GCPH?

 

Andy

 

Edited August 17, 2017 by andyr

[Guest Hensa]

30 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Given you say the Benz + SUT sounds better ... I assume this is using the GCPH MM input?  Or is the SUT plugged into a different phono stage ... which is better than the GCPH?

 

Andy

 

 

Hi Andy, I'm using the GCPH's MM input.

[andyr]

5 hours ago, Hensa said:

 

Hi Andy, I'm using the GCPH's MM input.

 

OK - then I suggest what that means is the MC input of the GCPH is a let-down ... compared to its MM input.  Just like the Doge 8! 

 

And if you remove the switch for MM/MC and hard-wire the MM input ... I suggest it will sound better still!   (But sad you are limited to a low loading, using the SUT.  Maybe you need to try a headamp.  )

 

Andy

 

Edited August 17, 2017 by andyr

[Guest Hensa]

 
OK - then I suggest what that means is the MC input of the GCPH is a let-down ... compared to its MM input.  Just like the Doge 8!  [emoji4]
 
And if you remove the switch for MM/MC and hard-wire the MM input ... I suggest it will sound better still!   (But sad you are limited to a low loading, using the SUT.  Maybe you need to try a headamp.  [emoji6] )
 
Andy
 

Having spent a long time with the GCPH, I'd suggest different. The MC stage of the GCPH is actually quite exceptional but right now I'm slightly preferring the combination with the SUT (exceptional plus, for argument's sake)[emoji3]. There's additional gain using the SUT and I'm not A/B comparing so that could also be a factor.

Definitely not a reason to say the PS Audio MC is a let down - couldn't be less right IMHO.


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[MattyW]

Having spent a long time with the GCPH, I'd suggest different. The MC stage of the GCPH is actually quite exceptional but right now I'm slightly preferring the combination with the SUT (exceptional plus, for argument's sake)[emoji3]. There's additional gain using the SUT and I'm not A/B comparing so that could also be a factor.

Definitely not a reason to say the PS Audio MC is a let down - couldn't be less right IMHO.


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That's why I love a SUT. The extra gain which tends to drown out any low level hum (tube gear). I've also found different SUT have different sound signatures so I like different ones on different carts. Not surprising as even IC's have their own sound signature.

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[audiofeline]

On 8/16/2017 at 6:30 PM, MattyW said:

...

Geoff has been able to make all 3 gain levels the Cinemag 1254 is capable of available along with bypass for high output carts.

 

This is a first as s. Three inputs make it ideal for running multiple arms...

 

"even the guys at Cinemag don't know how to do this"?  The wiring diagram from their website seems to indicate how to connect it for 1:40, 1:20 and 1:10 ratios (unless there is something that I'm missing in the diagram)...

http://cinemag.biz/phono/PDF/CM-1254 Hookup.pdf

 

 

[Guest gmdb]

On 8/17/2017 at 8:36 PM, audiofeline said:

 

"even the guys at Cinemag don't know how to do this"?  The wiring diagram from their website seems to indicate how to connect it for 1:40, 1:20 and 1:10 ratios (unless there is something that I'm missing in the diagram)...

http://cinemag.biz/phono/PDF/CM-1254 Hookup.pdf

 

 

I would say that the guys at Cinemag aren't concerned about this.  Because their  primary concern is making the best transformers they can.  However, that diagram shows switching between the 20x gain and the 40x gain.  I can't see how that switching allows for 10x gain. But I would love to be corrected as it would solve lots of problems .  

 

It is easy to set-up the Cinemag transformers to switch between 10x and 20x gain, and between 20x and 40x gain. I've worked with them for years and a simple toggle switch is all that is needed to switch between 2 gains.  But using a single switch  to move between all three gains is complicated.  Added to that, Matt was wanting an MM bypass on the switch.  So the wiring had to be done to effectively move through 4 gains in a single switch: 40x, 20x, 10x and the MM gain which bypassed the transformers.  This is by no means simple. I needed the assistance of @tesla13BMW to get beyond the 3 gains and work the MM bypass out.  And, yes, we had to find a 12 pole switch with 4 positions.  I emailed David at Cinemag about how we'd done this using an Electroswitch and his response indicated that he was excited as I was that it could be done.  I've known David for years.  Cinemag are a great transformer company. 

Edited August 18, 2017 by gmdb
correct grammar

[audiofeline]

31 minutes ago, gmdb said:

I would say that the guys at Cinemag aren't concerned about this.  Because their  primary concern is making the best transformers they can.  However, that diagram shows switching between the 20x gain and the 40x gain.  I can't see how that switching allows for 10x gain. But I would love to be corrected as it would solve lots of problems .  

 

It is easy to set-up the Cinemag transformers to switch between 10x and 20x gain, and between 20x and 40x gain. I've worked with them for years and a simple toggle switch is all that is needed to switch between 2 gains.  But using a single switch  to move between all three gains is complicated.  Added to that, Matt was wanting an MM bypass on the switch.  So the wiring had to be done to effectively move through 4 gains in a single switch: 40x, 20x, 10x and the MM gain which bypassed the transformers.  This is by no means simple. I needed the assistance of @tesla13BMW to get beyond the 3 gains and work the MM bypass out.  And, yes, we had to find a 12 pole switch with 4 positions.  I emailed David at Cinemag about how we'd done this using an Electroswitch and his response indicated that he was excited as I was that it could be done.  I've known David for years.  Cinemag are a great transformer company. 

 

Thanks for the update.  OK, I'm trying to understand this with my basic circuit knowledge.  So "hooking up the primary windings in sequence for the 1:10 turn ratio" as described on the diagram is not as straightforward as the switch for the 20/40 ratios. 

 

Wouldn't the MM bypass out be a simple shorting of the signal, via the switch, of the input rca to the output rca?  Or is it more complicated than that. 

 

Part of my curiosity is that I have considered getting some transformers to make a stepup unit for myself.  But am not 100% confident of following these diagrams.  And I'm waiting to complete some projects to see if I will actually need one in the future.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by audiofeline

[Guest gmdb]

14 minutes ago, audiofeline said:

 

Thanks for the update.  OK, I'm trying to understand this with my basic circuit knowledge.  So "hooking up the primary windings in sequence for the 1:10 turn ratio" as described on the diagram is not as straightforward as the switch for the 20/40 ratios. 

 

Wouldn't the MM bypass out be a simple shorting of the signal, via the switch, of the input rca to the output rca?  Or is it more complicated than that. 

 

Part of my curiosity is that I have considered getting some transformers to make a stepup unit for myself.  But am not 100% confident of following these diagrams.  And I'm waiting to complete some projects to see if I will actually need one in the future.

 

 

I think you'd be better off taking this question to the DIY thread and explaining what you want to do, and which transformers you'll be using.  The Cinemag transformers are wired for 3 gains but Cinemag didn't imagine that people would wish to access all three gains on the one switch and also bypass the transformer for MM. I can't really say more than that.

[MattyW]

Needless to say, I find this functionality very very useful and convenient. I've become accustomed to it after using a Fidelity Research FRT4 SUT for a bit. The Cinemag 1254 transformers are better though

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[Owen Y]

 

9 hours ago, MattyW said:

Needless to say, I find this functionality very very useful and convenient. I've become accustomed to it after using a Fidelity Research FRT4 SUT for a bit. The Cinemag 1254 transformers are better though

I have been using the FRT-4 - in recent years (preferring them over Cinemag 3440A, Stevens & Billington , Jensen JT-44K....).

.

The FR has internal 2 x loading Rs ea ch on the sec winding - I recommend disconnecting them (they are there for loading down TX resonance I think, technically better, but the SUT sounds better without them IMO). Not FR's best but they are beautiful toroidal SUTs.

 

Cheers, Owen

http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

Edited August 18, 2017 by Owen Y