Vibration

[crisis]

I have an old Rega 2 sitting on the ubiquitous Ikea butchers block. Does it work? I don't know. I currently have rather annoying motor noise audible when music is not playing. That aside I found when music is playing the plinth of the TT vibrates noticeably more than the Ikea board. I did a fairly primitive measurement by simply holding fingers of each hand agaisnt the opposing surfaces. The Ikea board seemed to vibrate far less. This may be a positive when assessing the virtues of these boards however it is alarming that despite the apparent isolation qualities of the Ikea board the TT plinth has a whole lot of airborne issues of its won.

[Guest Muon N']

Make a Bamboo plinth.

[ABG]

19 minutes ago, Noum said:

Make a Bamboo plinth.

 

Ummm...

 

I would try some cheap/free mods and see how you go from there.  Firstly, download a seismometer app onto your phone.  I've no idea how absolutely accurate they are, but that's really irrelevant for what you're going to do.  Take your TT off the bamboo plinth and place the phone onto your TT while it's playing.  Look closely at the reading.  Sit down and critically listen to the track.  Using the same track, try it with the plinth in place.  Get hold of some squash balls, rinse and repeat.  Get hold of some springs.  See which combination gives you the lowest reading.  I suspect that will also give you your best sounding combination as well.

 

Good luck and post back your findings.

 

P.S. I've got six squash balls under my stone plinth (I doubt you'll need that many as your TT and plinth are much lighter than mine).  That was the best combo in my place.

[crisis]

It seems to be air borne vibration the TT plinth is picking up because  the Ikea board does not vibrate as much. If it were coming through from the cabinet it should all be the same. Also the Ikea board is sitting on some isolation feet since that picture was taken.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

Do you have solid walls? If so, get a good wall shelf. Rega sell one for a reason.

If not, then go either for a lightweight table (preferred, but you need space for that of course and it's a problem) or put something good and compliant under the bass. Squash balls, the kid's bike inner tube, proper sorbothane or similar feet, depending on budget and how good it has to look.

Swapping the turntable with the amp may help as well. Energy transmission is plain weird sometimes!

 

[PleasantSounds]

First I'd check if that's not the TT motor vibrating...

 

[ABG]

2 minutes ago, crisis said:

It seems to be air borne vibration the TT plinth is picking up because  the Ikea board does not vibrate as much. If it were coming through from the cabinet it should all be the same. Also the Ikea board is sitting on some isolation feet since that picture was taken.

 

Your TT looks like it's a reasonable distance from your speakers, so I doubt it would be airborne - but you never know.  Do you have a sub nearby that can't be seen in the photo?  Have you tried removing the cover when your TT is playing?  Does that improve things?  If it's airborne, your cover would be magnifying the effect.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

3 minutes ago, crisis said:

It seems to be air borne vibration the TT plinth is picking up because  the Ikea board does not vibrate as much. If it were coming through from the cabinet it should all be the same. Also the Ikea board is sitting on some isolation feet since that picture was taken.

I wouldn't rely on that being the case. You could have motor noise or still have vibration from the sideboard. The block could be reflecting energy back into the turntable as well.  Does it still vibrate if you play a record with the sound muted? Do you have a sub, and if so is the vibration reduced with the sub off? If you tap the board or the sideboard (gently!) with the sound up a little, do you hear a thump or does the arm visibly move?

 

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

And is the vibration the same or less to the touch if the sound is from that nice CD player you have next to the turntable?

[crisis]

No sub. It vibrates along with the music. It is very light and does not seem audible but it was just noticeable the difference between the two. The TT motor noise is more of a nuisance and the whole thing is in line to be replaced when funds are available.

 

[crisis]

2 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

And is the vibration the same or less to the touch if the sound is from that nice CD player you have next to the turntable?

Good question but I am certain it is airborne via the music. I will give it a try tomorrow night.

[EV Cali]

1 hour ago, crisis said:

motor noise audible when music is not playing. That aside I found when music is playing the plinth of the TT vibrates noticeably more than the Ikea board.

I have the same TT and although the motor is the original thirty plus years old there is no motor noise and no vibration when I lightly touch the turntable with my fingers.

The motor on this model is suspended on a rubber belt perhaps this has perished or broken. 

Mine also sits on a concrete slab floor. 

 

I love this TT don't give up on it.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by EV Cali

[andyr]

1 hour ago, crisis said:

I have an old Rega 2 sitting on the ubiquitous Ikea butchers block. Does it work? I don't know. I currently have rather annoying motor noise audible when music is not playing.

 

Motor noise is ... motor noise.  Nothing to do with airborne vibrations - or broken elastic bands.  Motor noise is unacceptable - possibly a new motor is required?

 

1 hour ago, crisis said:

That aside I found when music is playing the plinth of the TT vibrates noticeably more than the IKEA board. I did a fairly primitive measurement by simply holding fingers of each hand against the opposing surfaces. The IKEA board seemed to vibrate far less. This may be a positive when assessing the virtues of these boards however it is alarming that despite the apparent isolation qualities of the IKEA board, the TT plinth has a whole lot of airborne issues of its own.

 

IMO, a board placed under a TT - or any component, for that matter - does not, by itself, provide "isolation".  However, it may ameliorate the vibrations coming upwards from the shelf it's placed on (bamboo seems to have this quality).  Isolation needs air under the butcher's block - a kid's bike inner tyre ... or some squash balls.

 

But that only stops vibrations coming up into the plinth from the shelf below ... airborne vibrations are a whole 'nuther kettleofish!

 

Can I suggest that if you can't hear feedback through your loudspeakers ... you don't actually have a problem.  (Even though your fingers are telling you that the plinth is vibrating.)  My TT is within 3' of the bass panel of my RH Maggie and I don't hear any vibrational feedback through the speakers.  (But, because my TT doesn't have a plinth, per se, I can't test it for vibration.  )

 

As I think it was ABG who suggested ... try turning your power amp off and see if you still feel vibration on the plinth.  If you don't ... then, yes, airborne vibration is the issue - not vibrations coming up from your rack-shelf.  In which case, try taking off your TT cover, as Andrew suggested.

 

Andy

 

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

Motor noise is ... motor noise.  Nothing to do with airborne vibrations - or broken elastic bands.  Motor noise is unacceptable - possibly a new motor is required?

This. The first thing is to repair or replace the deck. Sorry, I didn't read the OP closely enough.

 

1 hour ago, andyr said:

Can I suggest that if you can't hear feedback through your loudspeakers ... you don't actually have a problem.  (Even though your fingers are telling you that the plinth is vibrating.)  My TT is within 3' of the bass panel of my RH Maggie and I don't hear any vibrational feedback through the speakers.  (But, because my TT doesn't have a plinth, per se, I can't test it for vibration.  )
 

In an unsuspended deck like this, a vibrating plinth means a vibrating arm and cartridge and there will be unwanted movement at the cartridge. So things will be out (loss of detail, mistracking) well before you get much or probably any audible feedback.

 

We tend to think that because the Regas are simple unsuspended decks, that they must be easier to set up than suspended ones. It's not true: it just means that the problem is moved to getting the support structure spot on.

 

[crisis]

4 hours ago, EV Cali said:

I have the same TT and although the motor is the original thirty plus years old there is no motor noise and no vibration when I lightly touch the turntable with my fingers.

The motor on this model is suspended on a rubber belt perhaps this has perished or broken. 

Mine also sits on a concrete slab floor. 

 

I love this TT don't give up on it.

 

 

I replaced the motor with an upgraded Rega one about 7 or so years ago. I didn't use it much after because I didn't have a decent system to use it with. The new motor should not be worn but for some reason it is quite noisy. Too long since I bought it to worry about warranty.

 

3 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Motor noise is ... motor noise.  Nothing to do with airborne vibrations - or broken elastic bands.  Motor noise is unacceptable - possibly a new motor is required?

I don't think the motor is related to the vibration. the vibrations is related to the music playing. It is not an old motor.

 

3 hours ago, andyr said:

IMO, a board placed under a TT - or any component, for that matter - does not, by itself, provide "isolation".  However, it may ameliorate the vibrations coming upwards from the shelf it's placed on (bamboo seems to have this quality).  Isolation needs air under the butcher's block - a kid's bike inner tyre ... or some squash balls.

I have these under the butches block now .

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Valab-Audio-Vibration-Isolation-Damper-Feet-4-Pcs/302347912279?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

I am not sure how effective they are but the vibrations are not coming from under the TT. The cabinet is quite heavy and it sits on carpet on a concrete floor. The butchers block does not vibrate as much as the TT plinth. I actually think it is a characteristic of the Rega plinth materiel.

 

3 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Can I suggest that if you can't hear feedback through your loudspeakers ... you don't actually have a problem. 

 

Well there is no audible sound but that doesn't mean it isn't having an effect.

 

 

[EV Cali]

Try removing the TT lid  when in use.

It could be catching and amplifying air born vibration.

 

A couple more photos would help ,showing the speakers and surrounding walls.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Fix the turntable, BEFORE you start worrying about what it is mounted on. Clearly your Rega has a problem. 

[t_mike]

Where are the speakers placed in relation to the TT? Ideally, 50% of the distance between the speakers is the minimum they should be placed in front of the source.

[rantan]

Just now, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Fix the turntable, BEFORE you start worrying about what it is mounted on. Clearly your Rega has a problem. 

 

I was thinking the same thing, but then I thought I must have missed something obvious that everybody else had figured out.

[crisis]

Since buying the phono stage I have been so annoyed by the motor noise I haven't really played the TT. I played it tonight and it really sounds quite excellent other than the motor noise between tracks. I may have made the "vibration" felt from the plinth appear more serious than it really is. It is not obtrusive, my point being that of all of the surfaces the TT plinth seemed the most affected by airborne vibration. And its not the motor vibration that is being transferred. Its really the motor noise that is pissing me off and the decision has been made. A new TT when funds become available.

 

This is how the TT is currently mounted FWIW.

 

 

[Happy]

That looks like a belt drive and its motor noisy?


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[PeppaPig]

I have an old Rega 2 sitting on the ubiquitous Ikea butchers block. Does it work? I don't know. I currently have rather annoying motor noise audible when music is not playing. That aside I found when music is playing the plinth of the TT vibrates noticeably more than the Ikea board. I did a fairly primitive measurement by simply holding fingers of each hand agaisnt the opposing surfaces. The Ikea board seemed to vibrate far less. This may be a positive when assessing the virtues of these boards however it is alarming that despite the apparent isolation qualities of the Ikea board the TT plinth has a whole lot of airborne issues of its won. [emoji20]

Wow! You got a Kuro TV! Very good taste!

[crisis]

6 minutes ago, PeppaPig said:

 

Wow! You got a Kuro TV! Very good taste!

Its a 15 year old plasma. Well past its prime but it hasn't missed a beat. They were excellent TVs in the day hence their price premium but it is relegated to emergency use only now.

[PeppaPig]

Its a 15 year old plasma. Well past its prime but it hasn't missed a beat. They were excellent TVs in the day hence their price premium but it is relegated to emergency use only now. [emoji4]

But it's still good in compare to many TV, more cinema like color and never get over sharp and bright which hurts eyes.

[PeppaPig]

I have an old Rega 2 sitting on the ubiquitous Ikea butchers block. Does it work? I don't know. I currently have rather annoying motor noise audible when music is not playing. That aside I found when music is playing the plinth of the TT vibrates noticeably more than the Ikea board. I did a fairly primitive measurement by simply holding fingers of each hand agaisnt the opposing surfaces. The Ikea board seemed to vibrate far less. This may be a positive when assessing the virtues of these boards however it is alarming that despite the apparent isolation qualities of the Ikea board the TT plinth has a whole lot of airborne issues of its won. [emoji20]

You know what? You can get custom Perspex, looks much better and not expensive.