Where is the proof or even 'test results'?

[catman]

G'day all, reading around the internet these days, more often than not, equipment reviews are generally verbal opinions only in most cases, and my mind went back to the days of the 1970's and 1980's when serious lab 'test results' were a part of every review.  I used to love reading them and interpreting all the data! 

 

Phono cartridges, phono stages, amplifiers, loudspeakers, cassette decks etc all had them.  Poor design couldn't hide behind 'revealing' test results!  The Nakamichi's were always the best of the lot when it came to cassette decks!  I seem to recall that some of the loudspeaker test results were 'interesting' too.  Those were the days.  Bring em back!  Regards, Felix.         

Edited July 19, 2017 by catman
Spelling.

[Full Range]

I agree 

Bring back test results and critical analysis 

Also the word HiFi has also been diluted 

In the past there was stereo and there was HiFi with a distinct line to distinguish both 

 

 

[Tasebass]

By gone days...unfortunately.

I gave up buying hifi press a few years ago just got to well...same old same old....politically correct...

 

If something was crap when tested  it got printed...regardless...back in the day..

 

Tase

Edited July 19, 2017 by Tasebass

[catman]

G'day mate, good point!  There has to be a place for the truth somewhere though!  Regards, Felix. 

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

You want test results? Here's a few...

http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html

 

Register and get all the HiFi News results for several years in detail.

 

Don't forget Australian HiFi which also publishes test results in some detail.

Or Stereophile which has measurements in its website test reviews.

There are reviews on various German sites with measurement, from what I remember.

I only wish HiFi World would publish more than a little box in its reviews as well, since it's clear more is measured than is given out -  but it seems people prefer purple prose per product performance.

 

Those days haven't completely gone!

 

33 minutes ago, catman said:

Poor design couldn't hide behind 'revealing' test results!

Another gripe - magazines try their hardest not to review iffy products. You'll see them explain that readers only want to know about the "good stuff", hence also a preponderance of high priced items in reviews.

Maybe bad product is few and far between - but all the more reason to let us know about any turkeys that get sent in for review, or indeed otherwise.

 

[Tasebass]

1 minute ago, catman said:

G'day mate, good point!  There has to be a place for the truth somewhere though!  Regards, Felix. 

 

yeah but they pussyfoot around....

[Addicted to music]

Absolutely agreed.

 

There is one thing about the reviews done in the 80 and before that is that a lot of the equipment reviewed actually backed up what they were hearing and the gave explainations as to why some of the measurements were so.  

I use to buy the Australian HiFi magazine that use to show all the measurements and explaining what they were hearing.  Stereophile is another.

Now days all the reviews that done by any Tom, dick or Harry that's who wishes to start a website for advertising i don't give a lot of consideration to unless you know that person and trust there ears.  And I really don't care who you are or what side of the fence you sit on,  trust needs to be earned.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

29 minutes ago, Full Range said:

I agree 

Bring back test results and critical analysis 

Also the word HiFi has also been diluted 

In the past there was stereo and there was HiFi with a distinct line to distinguish both 

 

 

I've been led to understand that the term "high fidelity" was first coined by the makers of acoustic gramophones, back when electrically powered alternatives first came out.

It was of course an empty claim. Electric gramophones were so clearly superior that we haven't had a wind-up revival this decade!

[Happy]

You want test results? Here's a few...
http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html
 
Register and get all the HiFi News results for several years in detail.
 
Don't forget Australian HiFi which also publishes test results in some detail.
Or Stereophile which has measurements in its website test reviews.
There are reviews on various German sites with measurement, from what I remember.
I only wish HiFi World would publish more than a little box in its reviews as well, since it's clear more is measured than is given out -  but it seems people prefer purple prose per product performance.
 
Those days haven't completely gone!
 
Another gripe - magazines try their hardest not to review iffy products. You'll see them explain that readers only want to know about the "good stuff", hence also a preponderance of high priced items in reviews.
Maybe bad product is few and far between - but all the more reason to let us know about any turkeys that get sent in for review, or indeed otherwise.
 

Agreed.

Especially with Stereophile which is what I used to read a bit but it was pretty easy to pick up if the writer was critical of a certain component. And yes they do feature the measurement results. Surely those complaining here would have read them already I hope


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[catman]

G'day all, yes I am indeed gratified that there are still some excellent reviews around with lab test results however my viewing of the internet seems to indicate that the 'verbal only' type of reviews outnumber these by a l-o-n--g way, which is a pity!  Regards, Felix.         

[hyper]

G'day all, reading around the internet these days, more often than not, equipment reviews are generally verbal opinions only in most cases, and my mind went back to the days of the 1970's and 1980's when serious lab 'test results' were a part of every review.  I used to love reading them and interpreting all the data!   

Phono cartridges, phono stages, amplifiers, loudspeakers, cassette decks etc all had them.  Poor design couldn't hide behind 'revealing' test results!  The Nakamichi's were always the best of the lot when it came to cassette decks!  I seem to recall that some of the loudspeaker test results were 'interesting' too.  Those were the days.  Bring em back!  Regards, Felix.         

 

 

Felix

In my humble opinion. It's Unfortunately but the days of independent, technical and uncoloured reviews being common place are now gone.

 

Now I say common place because there are a few from time to time but few and far between

 

Even the ones that do often be selective in the measure to cast the best light on product in question.

 

The audio as with most any consumer electronics is driven by advertisement and kick backs. The websites, forums, mags all live on click throughs and advert space are they really going to cut off the hand that feeds them?

 

Even the smaller independent guys are often a wash with demo gear 'which never has to return' in order for a review. Then gets sold on as a secondary income

 

It's always been an issue but one now which increasingly makes a significant amount of reviews shallow words.

 

For every bad review you'll find 100x positive ones with some pitiful attempt to scribe a con about a said unit which trys to portray some neutrality without peeing of the manufacturer or turning of the consumer from buying.

 

Of course there's always room for people's perception, thoughts and tastes but it should also be backed with technical information (not selective benchmarking) which is often the case.

 

Don't get me wrong there are some good reviews/reviewers out there but as with any form of media the lines get blurred.

 

Take the editorial being cleverly disguised 'headline news' promoted stories with small advert disclaimers it just gets worse year on year.. Now more then ever consumers need to be savvy.

 

The day that physical media and the revenue that brought began to decline so did the content which was consumed from it...

 

Peace...

 

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[Addicted to music]

@catman

 

you may wanna have a read of this and have a giggle and chuckle,  it's absolutely brutal. But fun to read some of the funniest brutal comments on this device.  And it's back up by some real measurements!   

 

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/audio-gd-singularity-19-dac-measurements.4135/page-5

 

[TP1]

Don't believe any specs unless full details are given of the international standard to which the tests conform to  e.g. DIN, JIS, ASA.   Those that dont do this,  do not IMO have the confidence that the specs will withstand independent scrutiny, or alternatively the testing procedure was not rigorous enough.   the problem is exacerbated by the proliferation of $2 websites conducting online reviews without the ability to independently test the equipment themselves.  There are very few  independent reviews these days "that keep the bastards honest".  

 

  The review site "Soundstage!" does have independent measurements conducted for equipment it reviews as does  Australian Hifi and Stereophile.   We know that measurements dont tell the full story but we also know some people can be seduced by them and the temptation is there for manufacturers to abandon standards and publish ambitious numbers, knowing that they will probably never be called to account.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Tasso
typo

[Full Range]

1 hour ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

I've been led to understand that the term "high fidelity" was first coined by the makers of acoustic gramophones, back when electrically powered alternatives first came out.

It was of course an empty claim. Electric gramophones were so clearly superior that we haven't had a wind-up revival this decade!

 

I prefer to go by this analogy 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fidelity

[Addicted to music]

Ultimately if you're interested in the component, then you really need to go an audition it yourself.  

Just keep in mind that every rig out there is different and will respond differently when paired.  

[Happy]

At the end of the day, if those willing to purchase gear based on reviews really wanted test results the market will supply them. There's just no such demand.


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[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Australian HI Fi and Stereophile publish excellent objective tests with their reviews. There are others, but those two are amongst the best. 

[Happy]

32 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Australian HI Fi and Stereophile publish excellent objective tests with their reviews. There are others, but those two are amongst the best. 

 

haters gonna hate anyway

[hyper]

[mention=143868]catman[/mention]
 
you may wanna have a read of this and have a giggle and chuckle,  it's absolutely brutal. But fun to read some of the funniest brutal comments on this device.  And it's back up by some real measurements!   [emoji14]
 
http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/audio-gd-singularity-19-dac-measurements.4135/page-5
 

Haha that's gold never came across this forum before ! I randomly read a few threads and already spat my coffee out twice
[emoji1] [emoji1] [emoji1] [emoji1]
' Oh plz look at those graphs it measures no better than a boy gamers doof doof 2.1 off alliexpress, your just dirty you've been played' rofl

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[custom_made]

The hometheaterhifi site aka Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity publish measurements

[AussieMick]

"Wow, this bit of kit sounds AMAZING! I wonder how it measures and if I can draw any links between the measurements?!?!"

OR...

"WOW! That sounds bloody AWFUL! I wonder how it measures and whether or not I can draw any links..."

Both seem sensible and inquisitive.


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[Addicted to music]

On 20/07/2017 at 8:58 AM, hyper said:

Haha that's gold never came across this forum before ! I randomly read a few threads and already spat my coffee out twice

' Oh plz look at those graphs it measures no better than a boy gamers doof doof 2.1 off alliexpress, your just dirty you've been played' rofl

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Post 94 is better than gold!  It's platinum,  nailed it on the head for me with "burn-in"  full stop!  Won't quote that directly here on this forum, I'll just get banned!    It's one item that doesn't gel with me, when a designer tells you have to "burn-in" XXX hrs for it  to sound its best, for me you've lost that sale!  

Unlike official publications that has suffered criticism such as even on that I mentioned in the previous post, these guys do not hold back!  And they'd not mucking about either.  Enjoyable read, you won't find that sort of writing anywhere and definately not Stereophile!

[Guest Muon N']

Would have been nice if those guys gave the manufacturer a chance by sending the unit back and citing those measurements, so they could be sure it wasn't a faulty one. Seems evidence is needed when they want it, but they are comfortable to assume it is not faulty and is poorly designed without qualifying it.

 

Makes me wonder.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

8 hours ago, Noum said:

Would have been nice if those guys gave the manufacturer a chance by sending the unit back and citing those measurements, so they could be sure it wasn't a faulty one. Seems evidence is needed when they want it, but they are comfortable to assume it is not faulty and is poorly designed without qualifying it.

 

Makes me wonder.

Generally they do discuss results with manufacturers, and occasionally those discussions do get touched on in the reviews. It would be nice if that happened more often. In some cases, the manufacture is given the opportunity to respond. That's something that happened more in the old days as well.

[Addicted to music]

14 hours ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

Generally they do discuss results with manufacturers, and occasionally those discussions do get touched on in the reviews. It would be nice if that happened more often. In some cases, the manufacture is given the opportunity to respond. That's something that happened more in the old days as well.

 

What is concerning is the front page this manufacturers is advertising.  If you start from start someone posted some screen shots of what the distortion level is for that product directly from the website.  Yet with this unit these guys are getting no where near what's claimed.   I stand corrected but I believe  this manufacturer was claiming that they test every unit that leaves the factory floor and is subjected to over 48hr on time.