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Spending 10k - integrated or separates?


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@Marc, @joz
Have heard the HD Reference in a very high end system and for <$5k it's a KILLER amplifier. Endless dynamics, fantastic poise and detail.

I've only heard the pre mated to the older Elektra Reference and only for a short time, so can't really comment there.

 

Over a year ago I was talking to Arthur who said he was looking into designing an integrated...haven't heard anything since so unsure whether that's still something he's working on.

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2 minutes ago, ~Spyne~ said:

Over a year ago I was talking to Arthur who said he was looking into designing an integrated

 

He's working on it at least 10 years ... so maybe in another 10 years time hehe

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@doomigee2 your chord 2qute + mf 6500 sounds like a matching issue to me.

I have the 2qute dac and find two seemingly opposing results with two of my amplifiers: (both using the naim cd5 xs cd player)

On my naim nait xs2 that normally has a bit of sibilance, the problem went away completely when using the chord 2qute.

On my lavardin is, the sibilance got worse when using the 2qute.

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Hi everyone 

 

Have been tied up with work the last couple of weeks so no real progress on my search as yet. 

 

Having tried a couple of options, so far the nu vista 600 is the best sounding that i have come across, but unfortunately doesn't fit in my cabinet so therefore is a no go. Wife is pretty flexible but the golden rule is it has to fit in the cabinet so she can't see it. 

 

So I think I've narrowed down to 3 options, each with their own pros and cons. 

 

1. Elektra pynx pre and hd reference amp - can source either new or second hand easily as locally made. Down side is that I haven't heard the combo so not sure if it's a good match and in the same league as some of the other options. 

 

2. Vitus ri-100 - this is the front runner at the moment. Couple of second hand options around within budget. 

 

3. Vitus sia-025 - slightly above budget but a second hand bargain. My hesitation here is that it's "only" 100watt in a/b so I'm not sure whether it would have the bass slam and dynamics I'm after. 

 

Would love thoughts on the above options and I'm particularly interested to hear from Elektra owners or anyone who has heard the above combo. 

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Elektra-focal are a great match. Infact was first ever heard either. 

A little leaner than Mf. Elektra can be quite silky in top end. The Mf a tad fuller. But both pretty neutral. The new elektra pre I understand a touch not so neutral 

 

are you going to put the amp INSIDE a cabinet :ohmy:

 

for kind of amps talking abut here unless a. Full ventilated. Ie good ventillation all around then woukldnt do it. All these run foolish due to larg heat sinking but the heat sinks still give off heat and eventually that will build up and cook the beaut amp from inside... slowly

 

one reason I use pre powers. Ss Pre that runs cold can sit in a cabinet to the side 

 

power amp on on a floor rack next to speakers and  with full ventillation. Wouldn't even know the power is there unless I showed you

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There is a devialet 200 amp and dac for just under $6k on ebay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Devialet-Expert-200-Amplifier-Excellent-Condition/332363579476?hash=item4d6269c054%3Ag%3AviwAAOSws1ZZp6vH

 

Huge waf and an easy fit in most cabinets.  Is your cabinet fully enclosed?

 

The class A Vitus will be too hot and you should check with Vitus about the RI 100.

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Good suggestions and thanks for the Elektra info Al.

 

The cabinet is custom built and really well ventilated. It's completely open at the back and the front doors are slotted. The shelves are also slotted but the side that will house the amp won't have anything else in it - so there will be above 400mm of open space above the amp. 

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1 hour ago, :) al said:

Elektra-focal are a great match. Infact was first ever heard either. 

A little leaner than Mf. Elektra can be quite silky in top end. The Mf a tad fuller. But both pretty neutral. The new elektra pre I understand a touch not so neutral 

 

 

 

A little info.

The latest Phnynxs have regained that usual Elektra neutral clarity.

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An amp slightly left field which has superb sound is the Lavardin Model IT. Having auditioned many amps I bought one and it is sensational, no more looking at amps for me. Rarely have I found that a piece of equipment sounds as good as reviewers comments but I can gladly say this amp does (if not better IMO).  Currently in run out as the next model will have a remote control, I bought the older model and found it just sounds better and better no fatigue here.  I have a Devialet for the family room and it is good for what I need but this amp gets you sitting and focussing on the music. I now appreciate how good my Naim CDX2 really is as a cd player, this amp is well worth the audition.

 

http://www.audiomagic.com.au/Product/Lavardin-Model-IT/55

 

I can see this amp staying in my setup for a very long time.

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On 9/3/2017 at 0:55 PM, doomigee2 said:

Hi everyone 

 

Have been tied up with work the last couple of weeks so no real progress on my search as yet. 

 

Having tried a couple of options, so far the nu vista 600 is the best sounding that i have come across, but unfortunately doesn't fit in my cabinet so therefore is a no go. Wife is pretty flexible but the golden rule is it has to fit in the cabinet so she can't see it. 

 

So I think I've narrowed down to 3 options, each with their own pros and cons. 

 

1. Elektra pynx pre and hd reference amp - can source either new or second hand easily as locally made. Down side is that I haven't heard the combo so not sure if it's a good match and in the same league as some of the other options. 

 

2. Vitus ri-100 - this is the front runner at the moment. Couple of second hand options around within budget. 

 

3. Vitus sia-025 - slightly above budget but a second hand bargain. My hesitation here is that it's "only" 100watt in a/b so I'm not sure whether it would have the bass slam and dynamics I'm after. 

 

Would love thoughts on the above options and I'm particularly interested to hear from Elektra owners or anyone who has heard the above combo. 

I've recently just sold the older gen Elektra pre and Reference power amp. Awesome combo with Focal 826W's which use the same mid and bass drivers as the top flight Focal models.

 

You will be lucky to find a PYNX pre second hand, they've only been available for around 12 months. I assume the reference HD power amp would be like the reference and barely get warm, however, the pre being a valve design, does get pretty warm to hot and should never be put it a cabinet unless fan ventilated. Although a tube pre, it is pretty neutral sound signature and not at stereotypically tube like in sound, but does tame the Focal top end slightly.

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2 hours ago, blybo said:

I've recently just sold the older gen Elektra pre and Reference power amp. Awesome combo with Focal 826W's which use the same mid and bass drivers as the top flight Focal models.

 

You will be lucky to find a PYNX pre second hand, they've only been available for around 12 months. I assume the reference HD power amp would be like the reference and barely get warm, however, the pre being a valve design, does get pretty warm to hot and should never be put it a cabinet unless fan ventilated. Although a tube pre, it is pretty neutral sound signature and not at stereotypically tube like in sound, but does tame the Focal top end slightly.

What did you upgrade to? 

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Just now, doomigee2 said:

What did you upgrade to? 

I simplified to a Moon Neo Ace (all in one integrated). I now have very efficient Spatial Audio open baffle speakers so 50w is more than enough. Would not have considered this amp if I still had the Focals.

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2 hours ago, blybo said:

I've recently just sold the older gen Elektra pre and Reference power amp. Awesome combo with Focal 826W's which use the same mid and bass drivers as the top flight Focal models.

 

You will be lucky to find a PYNX pre second hand, they've only been available for around 12 months. I assume the reference HD power amp would be like the reference and barely get warm, however, the pre being a valve design, does get pretty warm to hot and should never be put it a cabinet unless fan ventilated. Although a tube pre, it is pretty neutral sound signature and not at stereotypically tube like in sound, but does tame the Focal top end slightly.

 

The new Phynx casing has much more venting so runs a fair bit cooler than the previous unit, not cold but still much cooler than hot.

(did that make any sense?)

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49 minutes ago, joz said:

 

The new Phynx casing has much more venting so runs a fair bit cooler than the previous unit, not cold but still much cooler than hot.

(did that make any sense?)

Makes sense. Have you heard the new Pynx? Any comments on its SQ? 

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I don't understand why you spend $40k to buy the Focal Scala speaker to play with Marantz and Anthem... 

Anyway with that budget of speaker I would spend at least $30k on the amp... good luck with the hunting but I think it will be hard to find one that suits all your needs.

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On 9/9/2017 at 2:29 PM, doomigee2 said:

Makes sense. Have you heard the new Pynx? Any comments on its SQ? 

 

Sorry missed this.

 

Presentation is IMO on my system is that its very quiet and neutral possibly to excess. Very dynamic!

Extremely detailed without any bog filling to the recording. If your system is already lean sounding beware and audition first. If your speakers and other components lean towards any type of lushness it could be the ticket.

But I have to stress that my my thoughts are only having it in my setup. 

I love mine.

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On 14/09/2017 at 9:00 PM, adamkent said:

I don't understand why you spend $40k to buy the Focal Scala speaker to play with Marantz and Anthem... 

Anyway with that budget of speaker I would spend at least $30k on the amp... good luck with the hunting but I think it will be hard to find one that suits all your needs.

I'm pretty sure the OP got his speakers for a bargain price. He would of been crazy not to get them .

Now comes the hard part of finding an amp that does the speakers justice and is within budget.

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So just a quick update on progress

 

I have landed myself an excellent condition (and aesthetically sexy) Vitus RI-100. Currently driving it home from Melbourne so will post some thoughts tomorrow. 

 

Pretty excited about this thing, by all accounts its a world class piece of kit. 

 

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice. 

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6 hours ago, doomigee2 said:

So just a quick update on progress

 

I have landed myself an excellent condition (and aesthetically sexy) Vitus RI-100. Currently driving it home from Melbourne so will post some thoughts tomorrow. 

 

Pretty excited about this thing, by all accounts its a world class piece of kit. 

 

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice. 

Well done. You should be very happy with that Amp. 

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7 hours ago, doomigee2 said:

So just a quick update on progress

 

I have landed myself an excellent condition (and aesthetically sexy) Vitus RI-100. Currently driving it home from Melbourne so will post some thoughts tomorrow. 

 

Pretty excited about this thing, by all accounts its a world class piece of kit. 

 

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice. 

 

1 hour ago, Nap250 said:

Well done. You should be very happy with that Amp. 

Happy enough for a GTG do you think?

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On 9/23/2017 at 11:41 AM, doomigee2 said:

So just a quick update on progress

 

I have landed myself an excellent condition (and aesthetically sexy) Vitus RI-100. Currently driving it home from Melbourne so will post some thoughts tomorrow. 

 

Pretty excited about this thing, by all accounts its a world class piece of kit. 

 

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice. 

Congrats! So, care to share your thoughts on the new combo? And of course the obligatory pics or two.

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So I have been listening for most of today and most of last night and now that I have managed to lift my jaw off the ground, I figured I had best post my thoughts!

 

How best to describe the integrated............. Musical. There are many qualities that it does well (will touch on shortly) but every time I think to myself "how will I describe this sound to others" the word musical is what comes to mind. 

 

Everything just seems to have such great rhythm & pace. It makes music seem fun again, its hard to listen and not get the foot tapping. 

 

OK so a few of the standard descriptors:

 

Bass - I had to start with this because the bass performance is just so good. With my previous amps I aways had a temptation to connect up the sub to improve the bass performance, but with the Vitus I haven't even considered it. The bass is tight, deep and just so articulate. It sounds "fast" and so so dynamic. Somehow, the bass seems to all stay in the room now, whereas before the bass in room was OK, but in other parts of the house it was actually louder. Backing onto the listening room is my kitchen, and on the other side of the wall directly behind the speakers is the cupboard. When having loud music sessions in the past, the glass jars and bottles used to vibrate in the pantry like mad. To the point that I had to use non slip matting to stop things falling, but with the Vitus, not a thing has moved. I've actually removed the non slip matting and everything stays put. Weird yes, but real. 

 

Mid range - vocals would be the next best thing about this amp. Female vocals in particular just sound so nice. There is a sweetness and delicacy that I haven't heard before. My previous amp (and in fact the 2 amps that I demo'd) had pretty bad sibilance (likely a room affect also) and if they were a 10 on the sibilance scale, the Vitus is a 1. As in, there is still a touch of sibliance but its reduced dramatically. Vocals feel very fluid, very engaging. 

 

Soundstage - huge! Height, width and depth has improved immensely. The speakers haven't quite done the disappearing trick, but its close. My listening room now sounds twice the size and the walls have just disappeared. There are so many little ambient sounds going on that previously I never heard. It gives a a really nice sense of space and the instrument separation is amazing. My wife said last night "it sounds like she (alicia keys) is standing right there in front of us" - I smiled and then told her how much it cost......

 

Power - there is a lot. In fact, I had to adjust the gain offset down because of the high output of my Chord DAC. I have had this pretty damn loud and at no point did it ever seem like running out of power. To be fair, the speakers are reasonably efficient though

 

Resolution - in addition to the ambient sounds I described above, there is simply more audible information available and as my wife so elegantly put it "there is more sound". Yes there is more sound, this is what makes it so engaging and so much fun to listen to. 

 

So in summary, I'm happy. No doubt I would have been happy with lots of the other options posted in this thread, but I am sure that the Vitus is one of the best options around within my budget. I can't imagine wanting any more from a pre/power or integrated and am happy enjoying my music collection all over again like a teenager who has just discovered Nirvana. 

 

So whats next? Well,  speaker cable upgrade happening this week, additional/better power outlets going in, changing over the Chord dac to the Vitus module, isolation platform, turntable and then I think the journey will be over! 

 

I hope that this thread and the above commentary helps anyone else in the same position I was, I would honestly recommend this Vitus to anyone and would find it impossible to think they wouldn't be happy. 

 

 

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OP has an incorrect assumption that's held up thinking.  The big boxes of preamps, integrated or power amps often enough are not filled full with electronics but instead some seem nearly empty.  The BHK250 poweramp is pretty chockers full but the DSJ certainly isnt. Likewise some Redgum gear has more empty space than utilised.  Apparently enclosures and space matter for some circuits, less so for others - see some Naim gear.

Having gone from the Harman Kardon HK990 Integrated to  a psaudio seperates of BHK250+DSJ and back to the Harman Kardon I have yet to feel like I was missing anything either way. The Nad d7050 integrated is another fine example of a unit that does the job for its setting.

That HK990 that floated into the classifieds for $800ish is an absolute screaming madman bargain for anyone in a medium room or smaller, it has plenty to power my 89db vafi66 beyond LOUD. Consider it a super integrated which has a full box of the good stuff.

 

But the room size should be driving ones hunt for power - not the mere desire for more power in a separates system but the room based need.

I think both ways, integrated/separated  are awesome and thoroughly enjoy my time in both camps.

 

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On 03/09/2017 at 3:00 PM, doomigee2 said:

Good suggestions and thanks for the Elektra info Al.

 

The cabinet is custom built and really well ventilated. It's completely open at the back and the front doors are slotted. The shelves are also slotted but the side that will house the amp won't have anything else in it - so there will be above 400mm of open space above the amp. 

Sorry to take this a little off topic @doomigee2, but I'm investigating custom cabinetry for the lounge room and was wondering from your experience if you had any tips about design and / or cabinet maker (i'm in Melbourne as well). I'm going to start a separate thread asking more details, but in the meantime...

 

Cheers

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