Best material for putting components on?

[Happy]

I agree the delivery of his opinion can be a little blunt at times. However, in this case Assisi specifically sought ZB's validation of his own subjective experience as though such experience is to have some sort of scientific basis, which is clearly not the case. ZB's response by way of supporting Newman's is nothing derogatory or insulting - and it was actually asked for.

 

I don't see why comments on ZB's attitude are necessary, relevant or warranted. 

[Guest guru]

48 minutes ago, MC240 said:

Maaaaaaate ZB has forgotten more about audio than the collective audio knowledge of sna's members.If it can't be measured then it probably doesn't matter 

I have to admit this gave me a smile when I read it and even now writing this, the chuckle takes over. 

You even have to smile at someone who "likes" their statement of adoration. Almost "trump" like.

keep up the effort.

Edited July 10, 2017 by guru

[bzr]

Sheeeeeit, trump would be embarrassed to be in here!!!

[betty boop]

[moderator post] guys can we re read the original post of this thread and hopefully bring this one back on track...[end moderator post]

[Sir Triode]

The best stuff resides at my home. I will not even charge a fee for letting your system reside at my place (which is arguably the world's best platform....)

[nzlowie]

 
Like ZB says. If it needs an anti-resonant bench, you wouldn't want it.
 
 

Interesting....... The change to my Weston Topaz after sitting it on squash balls was very noticeable. (For the better!!!!)

Does that mean it's not well designed and I wouldn't want it?

No it just means that every situation is different. In my case everything is sitting on a heavy coffee table / draw set that really accentuates vibration.
Yes I know I should just get a better cabinet but this one serves a purpose.

Don't be afraid to try the squash ball trick.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[Happy]

1 minute ago, nzlowie said:

Interesting....... The change to my Weston Topaz after sitting it on squash balls was very noticeable. (For the better!!!!)

Does that mean it's not well designed and I wouldn't want it?

No it just means that every situation is different. In my case everything is sitting on a heavy coffee table / draw set that really accentuates vibration.
Yes I know I should just get a better cabinet but this one serves a purpose.

Don't be afraid to try the squash ball trick.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

 

That is one interpretation. I too felt the improvement with valve amps but I don't rule out it was psychological stuff which is a reasonable and probably more logical interpretation.

 

And what if it was psychological stuff? I don't know why people feel it's necessary to have some sort of objective validation of what they hear. Why so scared of being duped by your own senses? Stereo imaging itself is inherently deceiving to our hearing.

[Assisi]

On 11/07/2017 at 9:28 AM, Happy said:

I agree the delivery of his opinion can be a little blunt at times. However, in this case Assisi specifically sought ZB's validation of his own subjective experience as though such experience is to have some sort of scientific basis, which is clearly not the case. ZB's response by way of supporting Newman's is nothing derogatory or insulting - and it was actually asked for.

 

I don't see why comments on ZB's attitude are necessary, relevant or warranted. 

@Happy ,

For me part of the fascination of audio hifi is to try changes in my system hopefully to achieve improved SQ outcomes.  Some things work and many don’t.  From time to time I am both surprised at comments in threads on SNA and other forums which cut off options.  Often there are denigrating comments about various products from people that have not even tried something that they commenting on.  This applies to some of the posts in this thread.  I think that people should be encouraged to experiment rather than being restrained.  It is all about a learning experience.

All I wanted to do in my post was to mention some of the various materials and products that I had used to in my pursuit of improved isolation of my SS equipment.  As well, my experience was definitely opposite to that of ZB in that I have experienced SQ improvements with SS equipment and isolation.  If he hasn’t had that experience that is fine with me but I did not and still do not accept what he said and I expected that he would respond.

It was not my intention to seek validation of my experience whatsoever.  It is up to anybody as to whether they take on board or not my experiences.  I thought that it was appropriate to challenge the validity of ZB’s absolute position conveyed in the statement in the post that I was responding to.  I thought that my comments may be of benefit in the context of the thread and open up possibilities instead of an outright closing off of options..  Anybody who was to follow the advice that SS equipment does not benefit from the use of isolation devices to me means that people are missing an opportunity and closing off potential benefits.

I agree that my experience with all the materials and products that I have tried is subjective.  The subjectivity does in no way negate my contribution to the thread.  Much of what is said on SNA is subjective.  From my perspective, I consider that I have achieved some definite positive isolation outcomes in my system and that other SNA members might appreciate my comments.  My position is not absolute and people can accept or reject my experiences.  For me some isolation works with SS and some does not.  It is a case of people experimenting and they may be both surprised and rewarded with SQ improvements with their SS based system. 

To me the most apt comment in this thread was from Frankn who said

“Like Hergest says it's often a good idea to try things for yourself. 

 

Many often cherished beliefs can be found wanting.”

 

It was this post that initially inspired me to do the post in which I listed some of the isolation materials and products that I had used.

 

John

Edited July 12, 2017 by Assisi

[Happy]

@Assisi Your comments are quite lengthy containing a number of points to be addressed. I lack the motivation to respond to them all (no offence). But I'll address just one thing that was actually relevant:

 

Quote

I thought that it was appropriate to challenge the validity of ZB’s absolute position conveyed in the statement in the post that I was responding to.  I thought that my comments may be of benefit in the context of the thread and open up possibilities instead of an outright closing off of options..  Anybody who was to follow the advice that SS equipment does not benefit from the use of isolation devices to me means that people are missing an opportunity and closing off potential benefits.

 

I fail to see how you 'challenged' ZB's position when all you were doing was giving an example of your subjective findings.

 

What you had to do, if you were so inclined to challenge him, was to argue how the objective findings in his position were flawed. That's not what you did.

 

If you wanted to provide benefit to the thread by opening up the possibilities you just offer your subjective findings, which you did already and ZB did not challenge that directly. I fail to see what you could have possibly achieved by challenging ZB's position that way.

 

The last bit about people should not be deterred from obtaining the benefit is, as you correctly say ('to me'), your own subjective opinion. If you wanted to achieve that by challenging ZB, your method of challenge was not only irrelevant but also illogical.

 

[Assisi]

1 hour ago, Happy said:

@Assisi Your comments are quite lengthy containing a number of points to be addressed. I lack the motivation to respond to them all (no offence). But I'll address just one thing that was actually relevant:

 

 

I fail to see how you 'challenged' ZB's position when all you were doing was giving an example of your subjective findings.

 

What you had to do, if you were so inclined to challenge him, was to argue how the objective findings in his position were flawed. That's not what you did.

 

If you wanted to provide benefit to the thread by opening up the possibilities you just offer your subjective findings, which you did already and ZB did not challenge that directly. I fail to see what you could have possibly achieved by challenging ZB's position that way.

 

The last bit about people should not be deterred from obtaining the benefit is, as you correctly say ('to me'), your own subjective opinion. If you wanted to achieve that by challenging ZB, your method of challenge was not only irrelevant but also illogical.

 

@Happy I am not offended at all that you did not respond to alI the matters that included in my post.  I am pleased that you did respond.  Some of what I said in the post was influenced by some things said by others in a few posts before yours that I quoted.  

In the matter of ZB’s absolute statement that

“   Anything that cuts down vibration is a good thing for valve amps. It is, of course, a waste of money for SS products.”

In this statement I do not think that there are any.   "...objective findings …" at all.  There may be objectivity that sits behind the statement that is absent.

I responded to say near the beginning of my post

“That may be your experience but from mine it is definitely not correct at all.”  ( My underlying and bolding)

Given ZB’s enthusiasm to respond to posts I have made before that he doesn't agree with, I expected that he would respond.  I thought that my response would be seen as challenge..  Maybe I should have asked why?"...of course, is it a waste of money. If there is a next time I will try do better.

Maybe some of what I have said could be seen as irrelevant and illogical. I am not sure.  We will just have to be Happy that we have this opportunity to exchange views and agree to disagree from time to time.

John

[nzlowie]

 
That is one interpretation. I too felt the improvement with valve amps but I don't rule out it was psychological stuff which is a reasonable and probably more logical interpretation.
 
And what if it was psychological stuff? I don't know why people feel it's necessary to have some sort of objective validation of what they hear. Why so scared of being duped by your own senses? Stereo imaging itself is inherently deceiving to our hearing.

I like your thoughts / comments. But if we are duped by our senses, what are we really listening to?
A large portion of my changes have been improvements, but are they really? Or just in my head????
If so I'll take it anyway.


Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[Happy]

10 minutes ago, Assisi said:

@Happy I am not offended at all that you did not respond to alI the matters that included in my post.  I am pleased that you did respond.  Some of what I said in the post was influenced by some things said by others in a few posts before yours that I quoted.  

 

In the matter of ZB’s absolute statement that

 

“   Anything that cuts down vibration is a good thing for valve amps. It is, of course, a waste of money for SS products.”

 

In this statement I do not think that there are any.   "...objective findings …" at all.  There may be objectivity that sits behind the statement that is absent.

 

I responded to say near the beginning of my post

 

“That may be your experience but from mine it is definitely not correct at all.”  ( My underlying and bolding)

Given ZB’s enthusiasm to respond to posts I have made before that he doesn't agree with, I expected that he would respond.  I thought that my response would be seen as challenge..  Maybe I should have asked why?"...of course, is it a waste of money. If there is a next time I will try do better.

 

Maybe some of what I have said could be seen as irrelevant and illogical. I am not sure.  We will just have to be Happy that we have this opportunity to exchange views and agree to disagree from time to time.

 

John

 

 

Well one does not look at the words in isolation. My view is that ZB's responses here have been consistent. And he did respond by supporting Newman's response to you.

 

If I were you, BTW, my question would have been words to the following effect: 'In my experience, the SS products do get affected by vibration' as opposed to how his view is 'not correct at all'. Your choice of words strongly suggested an attempt to seek validation. 

 

I do not like ZB's bluntness at times. And I find his occasional push for ME amps mildly distasteful. But I've never seen him condemning those who express their subjective findings as long as they don't try to make such findings look objective to others. You may note that I asked for his understanding as to the impact of vibration on valve amps which is in conflict with my own subjective findings in this thread. I don't really care if my subjective findings cannot be validated scientifically or logically. 

[Happy]

Just now, nzlowie said:

 

I like your thoughts / comments. But if we are duped by our senses, what are we really listening to?
A large portion of my changes have been improvements, but are they really? Or just in my head????
If so I'll take it anyway.


Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

 

 

And what's wrong with acknowledging that? As I said, the whole idea of stereo imaging is inherently based deceiving our senses yet nobody is bothered. 

 

Then again it's not like I'm asking you to acknowledge it. It's entirely up to you of course.

[Assisi]

1 hour ago, Happy said:

 

1 hour ago, Happy said:

 

If I were you, BTW, my question would have been words to the following effect: 'In my experience, the SS products do get affected by vibration' as opposed to how his view is 'not correct at all'. Your choice of words strongly suggested an attempt to seek validation.

 

 

I will try and do better in the future.

John@Happy

[Roumelio.]

Buy a wooden butchers block off ebay... Done.

[andyr]

40 minutes ago, Roumelio. said:

Buy a wooden butchers block off ebay... Done.

 

Aah, but what wood, R?

 

Maple - beloved of American audiophiles for its 'musical' qualities - laminated bamboo ... ply ... eucalyptus?

 

Andy

 

[Roumelio.]

That's a matter of experimentation, there is plenty of laminated bamboo floating around on ebay. I've heard a lot of different guitars made from different things, they will all impart different sonic qualities on the instrument placed upon them.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Roumelio.

[Guest guru]

On 9 July 2017 at 9:01 AM, Addicted to music said:

 

My apologies @ABG,  

 

i had the ipad screen enlarged and I couldn't  see the bottom.

 

i think I'll try your Bunnings option,  THERES NO FRIGGIN WAY IM PAYING $88 for 3 sheets of materials that look like it cost $0.20 to make and cut into circular shapes.....

After such a anti positive stance, I went and laid down the $88 and put them under the CD player and amp I am using at the show next weekend. They will be traveling to Macquarie street and join the other placebo inducing paraphernalia being used. 

[Addicted to music]

1 minute ago, guru said:

After such a anti positive stance, I went and laid down the $88 and put them under the CD player and amp I am using at the show next weekend. They will be traveling to Macquarie street and join the other placebo inducing paraphernalia being used. 

 

No more money allocated for HiFi toys for insignificant me guru.    The big BOSS has given the ultimatum so we allocate funds for investing in property, hence the property investment thread I started in the chillout.

[Guest guru]

6 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

 

No more money allocated for HiFi toys for insignificant me guru.    The big BOSS has given the ultimatum so we allocate funds for investing in property, hence the property investment thread I started in the chillout.

We all balance needs and wants, you're doing what makes sense and what will allow you a mutha of a system in 20 years time when you can't hear anything anyway. Enjoy what you have and try not to be so hard on shiny discs that actually do something pretty interesting.

[awayward]

16 minutes ago, guru said:

After such a anti positive stance, I went and laid down the $88 and put them under the CD player and amp I am using at the show next weekend. They will be traveling to Macquarie street and join the other placebo inducing paraphernalia being used. 

I recently took the punt and purchased the apparently useless shiny silver discs, they have had a very positive effect, $88 well spent 

[Addicted to music]

13 minutes ago, guru said:

We all balance needs and wants, you're doing what makes sense and what will allow you a mutha of a system in 20 years time when you can't hear anything anyway. Enjoy what you have and try not to be so hard on shiny discs that actually do something pretty interesting.

 

What are you on about  @guru  I can't tell the difference between MP3  320kps or hires uncompressed WAV now!   What hope have i got in 20yrs.  Definately do not have bat ears that can hear 40khz and behind that some around these neck of the woods think they can hear.  

im not as young as like I was starting out in this hobbie, where I can picked whether it was a full digital recording or and analog master or which CD player was on in a DBT or whether you used a coat hanger for speaker wires....  

[crisis]

3 hours ago, Roumelio. said:

Buy a wooden butchers block off ebay... Done.

Or Ikea.

 

[Assisi]

1 hour ago, Addicted to music said:

 

No more money allocated for HiFi toys for insignificant me guru.    The big BOSS has given the ultimatum so we allocate funds for investing in property, hence the property investment thread I started in the chillout.

@Addicted to music

Your responses to @guru  are a cop out given your unnecessary comment on a product with which you obviously had no experience of whatsoever.  I like others have used the product and found it to be beneficial.  As I said previously maybe it would be more useful for everybody that you try before you make the comments about something you know nothing about.

John

[Guest BobbyD]

Laminated Russian Birch Ply rack and hardwood cones does a good job for me.

 

The rack is decoupled from the floor with Herbies sliders.