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Wiffle

Best sound blocking material between floors?

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Wiffle   
 
I wasn't aware you could lay carpet tiles over underlay... you might want to check up on that.
 

Will double check; I think it comes down to the type of underlay, the size of the tiles, and whether or not they're stuck down with adhesive tape...

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With soundproofing, do or do not, there is no try :)

 

By that I mean, half measures always lead to disappointment and frustration. In my experience its either all in or nothing at all

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Wiffle   

Thanks@jkn I wasn't planning on attaching the ceiling directly to the walls; was planning on Greenglue sealant

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Wiffle   

So I've just come across something interesting; Greenglue specifically state that their product is not a permanent adhesive, and hence gyprock sheets still need to be attached to the studs in the mnner prescribed by the building code. If that's the case, how are you guys attaching them to the underside of the floor above? @Peter the Greek @125dBmonster

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24 minutes ago, Wiffle said:

So I've just come across something interesting; Greenglue specifically state that their product is not a permanent adhesive, and hence gyprock sheets still need to be attached to the studs in the mnner prescribed by the building code. If that's the case, how are you guys attaching them to the underside of the floor above? @Peter the Greek @125dBmonster

 

Screws 

 

Edit: there should be details on the GG website, but less is more. Basically as few as physically necessary to hold the weight....or just do it to "code"

Edited by Peter the Greek

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3 hours ago, Wiffle said:

So I've just come across something interesting; Greenglue specifically state that their product is not a permanent adhesive, and hence gyprock sheets still need to be attached to the studs in the mnner prescribed by the building code. If that's the case, how are you guys attaching them to the underside of the floor above? @Peter the Greek @125dBmonster

I use sicaflex it is a urethane based goo/glue that sets flexable. Similar stuff holds the windscreen in your car.

Have built a sound lounge using this stuff instead of stud adhesive (blue) and then pulled out all the screws, from the wall and ceiling plaster (13mm CSR Perforated) and double layer 10mm for the walls. Nothing has moved even slightly.

 

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Wiffle   
I use sicaflex it is a urethane based goo/glue that sets flexable. Similar stuff holds the windscreen in your car.
Have built a sound lounge using this stuff instead of stud adhesive (blue) and then pulled out all the screws, from the wall and ceiling plaster (13mm CSR Perforated) and double layer 10mm for the walls. Nothing has moved even slightly.
 

I've used Sikaflex before and agree it's a great product!
Should I consider using this to glue a layer or two of plaster to the floorboards and omit the greenglue in this location, knowing that I'll still be hanging an isolated ceiling from the bottom of the joists? Seems pretty pointless to use expensive greenglue for its isolation properties and then directly screw the plaster sheets to the floorboards!!!

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Wiffle   
 
GG is for damping, not isolation 

Now I think you're just arguing over semantics. Damping is the ability of a material to slow/stop vibration, and isolation is the ability to prevent vibration from transferring to another material. If Sikaflex maintains a flexible structure when dry it will surely also provide a measure of damping, and providing damping also helps to prevent soundwaves transferring to the adjacent medium, hence providing a measure of isolation as well. In either case it was you who initially posted there was no point using fancy materials if you're then going to hard-connect (ie screw) them to the structure that you're trying to prevent sound entering...
OR have I missed something...

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In soundproofing speak there are 3 distinct components:

- mass

- isolation

- damping

So its not really semantics, its important not to confuse the second two. You see all sorts of nonsense like people putting GG on studs instead of stud adhesive etc etc

 

Is it floorboards directly above? or some sort of chipboard and then floorboards on top? if its direct, I'd glue (liquidnails) 16mm chip board on first (no screws) and then do 1 layer of gyprock with GG

 

I dont have a reference, but I recall looking at sikaflex v gg years back. Its chaulk and cheese, I'd not waste your time with it. Sikaflex sets reasonably hard still....GG stays pretty gooey, its entire life. Its awful stuff to dismantle if you cock it up

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Wiffle   
7 minutes ago, Peter the Greek said:

In soundproofing speak there are 3 distinct components:

- mass

- isolation

- damping

So its not really semantics, its important not to confuse the second two. You see all sorts of nonsense like people putting GG on studs instead of stud adhesive etc etc

 

Is it floorboards directly above? or some sort of chipboard and then floorboards on top? if its direct, I'd glue (liquidnails) 16mm chip board on first (no screws) and then do 1 layer of gyprock with GG

 

I dont have a reference, but I recall looking at sikaflex v gg years back. Its chaulk and cheese, I'd not waste your time with it. Sikaflex sets reasonably hard still....GG stays pretty gooey, its entire life. Its awful stuff to dismantle if you cock it up

Yes it is floorboards directly above, so I'll start with your suggestion of chipboard glued to the boards, and then GG/screws attaching a layer of 16mm Fyrchek to that. Then a double layer of batts (to fill the void space). Then the isolated ceiling under that (again Fyrcheck)...

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6 minutes ago, Wiffle said:

Yes it is floorboards directly above, so I'll start with your suggestion of chipboard glued to the boards, and then GG/screws attaching a layer of 16mm Fyrchek to that. Then a double layer of batts (to fill the void space). Then the isolated ceiling under that (again Fyrcheck)...

 

Yep, that's how I'd do it. The chip board will add mass, but also has some damping properties and gives you something to screw the gyprock into.

 

I'd caulk any gap between the chipboard and the floor joists whilst you're at it. It'll help a little with soundproofing, but will also materially improve air leakage (energy efficiency) of the room above 

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1 hour ago, Wiffle said:


I've used Sikaflex before and agree it's a great product!
Should I consider using this to glue a layer or two of plaster to the floorboards and omit the greenglue in this location, knowing that I'll still be hanging an isolated ceiling from the bottom of the joists? Seems pretty pointless to use expensive greenglue for its isolation properties and then directly screw the plaster sheets to the floorboards!!! emoji53.png

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I use the cheap 12 buck tubes of urthane from Bunnings

have never used the green goop as I find it is not as good as the black rubber goo (black sica type stuff) and double the price as it has (acoustic properties) on the label 

I will guarantee the sica type stuff will bond fairly well any building product to any other type of building product, given a day to cure

See in showcase "Battery Bassed Audiophile" about half way in to the 100 pages and there is a link some pages back here.

Plenty of finished photos and construction progress, took almost 6 months. Worth a look, I don't look back, beautiful space resulted for all to enjoy.

 

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On 15/07/2017 at 6:29 PM, Peter the Greek said:

With soundproofing, do or do not, there is no try :)

 

By that I mean, half measures always lead to disappointment and frustration. In my experience its either all in or nothing at all

+1

Do it once and do it well

I said something about that earlier :unsure: end result is with acoustic treatment, you get out what you put in

An example, I spent all weekend treating 2 doors of my work bus with a butyl rubber lead backed vehicle acoustic liner, the doors don't have speakers, did such a great job have decided to do the whole vehicle, hang the cost and time, it's worth my comfort (and the Family on those long drives)

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11 minutes ago, 125dBmonster said:

+1

Do it once and do it well

I said something about that earlier :unsure: end result is with acoustic treatment, you get out what you put in

An example, I spent all weekend treating 2 doors of my work bus with a butyl rubber lead backed vehicle acoustic liner, the doors don't have speakers, did such a great job have decided to do the whole vehicle, hang the cost and time, it's worth my comfort (and the Family on those long drives)

 

Is that for soundproofing? we need to do something similar with a Honda side by side ATV we have. The engine is so damn noisy with a roof and windscreen on. Is it difficult to use?

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12 hours ago, Peter the Greek said:

 

Is that for soundproofing? we need to do something similar with a Honda side by side ATV we have. The engine is so damn noisy with a roof and windscreen on. Is it difficult to use?

no not really hard to use, I took the time to wash out the inside and outside of the door (after taking them apart) then cut, peel off the backing and put on. Fantastic the difference it makes, will go well in the whole Troopy

Like any acoustic treatment it takes a little time, patients and a few dollars. I was working with $150 worth of the stuff and have a little under half left, so will get in another lot to finish up the fire wall, foot wells, transmission tunnel and rear of the door pillars, kick panels and where ever else I can find. Ultimately as we both know, once you have started "treating" and knowing the benefits of a truly good  job, you can't stop. Each door is 3Kg heaver, and very unlike a Toyota door at this point

IMG_1767.JPG

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the plastic sheet went back on then the poxy brown door skin, looks the same car drives different and doors don't ring anymore :partyMight just have to add a pair of nice 6" woofers :thumb: and complete the 3 way stage in front of the old Troopy

 

Details at "Battery Bassed Audiophile Beyond" last few pages

All stereo's require acoustic treatment, none are exempt 

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