Impulsessz Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Having recently purchased Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby grands I have been considering Class A integrated amps. Of particular interest are Accuphase E600 $15995 rrp plus on board Dac & phono card Esoteric F03A $15500 rrp includes phono stage + approx $1000 Dac Your thoughts guys Thank you in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hergest Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Any particular reason you want to go the Class A route? I had a pair of early VA Beethovens and they really, really came alive with plenty of good power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicOne Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 @Impulsessz My advice.....audition both (preferably with your speakers) and then decide. For a good Class A/B integrated, try this one on for size: http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/nu-vista/nu-vista-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryO Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) VA Baby Grands are great speakers, I have a set in my second system and @Hergest is correct they do like power and lots of it. As for buying a new amp and dac etc why not look in the classifieds here, plenty of members selling great amps, dacs and just about everything else you may need often for very reasonable dollars. cheers Terry Edited July 4, 2017 by TerryO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwertyqaz Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Neither unfortunately, Strongly recommend going the separates as that gives you the apportunity to fine tune. eg Get a valve pre and something like the Pass Labs Power Amp that is currently on sale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_W Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 You choose. Do you prefer something a little bit warm, laid back, and lush? Or do you want something a little brighter, more dynamic, and detailed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Both are Class-A 30w into 8ohms and double into 4ohms and 2ohms. Without hearing. But just looking at the 2 internal pics, I like the Esoteric more, re: it's multiple smaller power supply caps, larger E/I Core transformer and many more finer heatsink fins. Cheers George 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicOne Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Why the insistence on Class A? Class A/B can (and often is) just as good. Indeed, if you are playing mostly classical, Class A/B is often preferred, due to the relative slowness of pure class A when sudden transients occur, as they often do in classical music. Apparently, Class A amps can be slower to respond than class A/B. I've only heard this....not speaking from experience. Try, before you buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, MusicOne said: Class A/B is often preferred, due to the relative slowness of pure class A when sudden transients occur, as they often do in classical music. This is only the case if the amp has a mediocre or under spec power supply, or if the components have been taxed beyond their best operating range. Class-A sound magic, if done right. With these two quality amps running only at 30w class-A, I doubt they'd be taxed and neither their power supplies, but you can bet anything above that 30w is going over to A/B judging by the heatsinks. Cheers George Edited July 5, 2017 by georgehifi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicOne Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, georgehifi said: This is only the case if the amp has a mediocre or under spec power supply, or if the components have been taxed beyond their best operating range. Class-A sound magic, if done right. With these two quality amps running only at 30w class-A, I doubt they'd be taxed and neither their power supplies, but you can bet anything above that 30w is going over to A/B judging by the heatsinks. Cheers George Thanks for the clarification George. They are obviously both quality amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwertyqaz Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Side topic but what is Class A for ME 850 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryphongryph Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Must say I like the Accuphase looks a lot better, but both are probably fine amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Just now, Qwertyqaz said: Side topic but what is Class A for ME 850 I have 2 of them one for bass <150hz at normal around 15w, the other for the big esl >150hz panels I biased it up to around 35w. Cheers George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwertyqaz Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Just now, georgehifi said: I have 2 of them one for bass <150hz at normal around 15w, the other for the big esl >150hz panels I biased it up to around 35w. Cheers George So what about standard model ? I know you tweaked yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 1 minute ago, gryphongryph said: Must say I like the Accuphase looks a lot better, but both are probably fine amps. It's what's inside that counts and the Esoteric to me looks the goods, re my first post. Cheers George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryphongryph Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 But you don't see the inside when you sit down to listen ;-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Qwertyqaz said: So what about standard model ? I know you tweaked yours. Still a very fine amp in standard bias, I'm just a Class-A junky after building many of them, one even water cooled, which was a struggling two man lift. Cheers George Edited July 5, 2017 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impulsessz Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Great comments all, Having auditioned the Accuphase E600 I can confirm a very liquid even organic master sounding amplifier. Living here in WA I can't audition the Esoteric anywhere and as a result I may by default have begun many yrs of listening pleasure courtesy of Accuphase. I do believe there may be a new model being released sometime in the near future. Cost no object i'de go with their A47 Pwr amp and C2420 pre. We can all dream a Little ! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicOne Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 In the end, it's probably a matter of difference only.....they are different amps, but one is not necessarily better than the other.....only different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impulsessz Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 10 hours ago, Qwertyqaz said: Neither unfortunately, Strongly recommend going the separates as that gives you the apportunity to fine tune. eg Get a valve pre and something like the Pass Labs Power Amp that is currently on sale. Which pass labs do you recommend as they have an extensive range which review well. Same problem for me here as with the Esoteric. Nowhere to audition in WA Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impulsessz Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 On 03/07/2017 at 6:08 AM, Hergest said: Any particular reason you want to go the Class A route? I had a pair of early VA Beethovens and they really, really came alive with plenty of good power. I find at 30watts class A On 03/07/2017 at 6:08 AM, Hergest said: Any particular reason you want to go the Class A route? I had a pair of early VA Beethovens and they really, really came alive with plenty of good power. plenty of power. Very fluid sounding to my ears and non fatiguing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryO Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) Hi @ImpulsesszVA speakers take many hours of use to start to sound their best, especially the Baby Grands which change considerably sq wise after being truly run in. My point is if your speakers are brand new and you are auditioning amps with them then you are not hearing what your system will actually sound like in a few months time. So what you might like now you might not once the speakers have a couple of hundred hours on them. Just something to be aware of and try to take into consideration. A question if you don'd mind, given the amps you are looking at did you also audition the Concert Grands or the Litz? cheers Terry Edited July 5, 2017 by TerryO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 1 minute ago, TerryO said: VA speakers take many hours of use to start to sound their best, especially the Baby Grands which change considerably sq wise after being truly run in. My point is if your speakers are brand new and you are auditioning amps with them then you are not hearing what your system will actually sound like in a few months time. So what you might like now you might not once the speakers have a couple of hundred hours on them. Just something to be aware. A question if you don'd mind, did you also audition the Concert Grands or the Litz's? cheers Terry This is very good advice. VA BBGs take at least 200 hours before they settle and cease being bright, shiny and thin sounding. After this the mellow out and become more balanced. You may not think they sound bright and thin but wait until they are well used and you will see ( hear ) what I mean. Personally I couldn't get on with them and to this day I dislike any VA speakers, but that is just my opinion and I am not saying that many others will agree. The other thing to be aware of is that they are ,on paper, efficient and ( supposedly ) easy to drive, but I urge you not to trust the specifications. You will need a reasonably powerful amplifier and those mentioned will certainly do the job and another amp I would throw into the mix is the Luxman 590AX for class A or if you go AB then a 507 UX I personally love Class A amps and either of the two you are looking at are very good but the 590 AX is just sublime and at $10K, a relative bargain compared to the other two,which leaves you with $5K to keep or spend on whatever you like 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impulsessz Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, rantan said: This is very good advice. VA BBGs take at least 200 hours before they settle and cease being bright, shiny and thin sounding. After this the mellow out and become more balanced. You may not think they sound bright and thin but wait until they are well used and you will see ( hear ) what I mean. Personally I couldn't get on with them and to this day I dislike any VA speakers, but that is just my opinion and I am not saying that many others will agree. The other thing to be aware of is that they are ,on paper, efficient and ( supposedly ) easy to drive, but I urge you not to trust the specifications. You will need a reasonably powerful amplifier and those mentioned will certainly do the job and another amp I would throw into the mix is the Luxman 590AX for class A or if you go AB then a 507 UX I personally love Class A amps and either of the two you are looking at are very good but the 590 AX is just sublime and at $10K, a relative bargain compared to the other two,which leaves you with $5K to keep or spend on whatever you like Thank you very much for your input. It just so happens the retailer where I purchased the VA'S also have the Lux amps mentioned. I'll audition them and post my findings Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini07 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Check out this and select a preamp for your liking: All the power you'll ever need, plus dynamics, liquidity, richness - you name it. And at around half price. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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