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The Power Line Conditioner Thread


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thought of that but abit too many since got to go by specific models..

wait till populate the list of brands already then think about this. :P

 

Orh ok hehe. I think currently for generators CSE the cheapest? Which has the best cost to performance ratio? heheI'm interested in trying buying one to try try on my system.  Was thinking the CSE one. Thanks

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Orh ok hehe. I think currently for generators CSE the cheapest? Which has the best cost to performance ratio? heheI'm interested in trying buying one to try try on my system.  Was thinking the CSE one. Thanks

CSE is cheapest only because it has the lowest current, like 100w. It's only good for 2 source components. I feel this works if you are happy with just source on regeneration, and probably has good SQ due to the more dedicated approach.

 

PS Audio and Exactpower also do something similar but with higher watts rating. However, all of these can't give you more power than what the wall supplies, unlike PurePower which has a battery, but this is a minor point in Singapore as we seldom have black or brown outs. For sound quality, not sure which is the best though, as though to compare.

 

I'm not using my PurePower this weekend due to other trials, so if you want to try it out during this time, just drop me a PM. Just be aware it's 27kg.

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CSE is cheapest only because it has the lowest current, like 100w. It's only good for 2 source components. I feel this works if you are happy with just source on regeneration, and probably has good SQ due to the more dedicated approach.

 

PS Audio and Exactpower also do something similar but with higher watts rating. However, all of these can't give you more power than what the wall supplies, unlike PurePower which has a battery, but this is a minor point in Singapore as we seldom have black or brown outs. For sound quality, not sure which is the best though, as though to compare.

 

I'm not using my PurePower this weekend due to other trials, so if you want to try it out during this time, just drop me a PM. Just be aware it's 27kg.

 

Thanks for the offer bro.  I would really love to have it for home trial but currently all my power cords are UK plugs. so can't fit your purepower at all. I'll be changing them to the stealth power cords soon. hehe. maybe change le then c how hehe

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like i mentioned.. i have tried some that have helped. now trying out a power cord + conditioner combo which can lower the noise level to almost zero. if i place my ear near the tweeter, can still hear abit of it though, but at least dun really bother me when i am listening to music anymore. this weekend testing more higher spec ones in the hope it resolves it even further!

 

mains i think can't be helped la.. it is already a dedicated power line. but i will be checking some other things..

actually one thing i am curious is if i get the sound whenever the lift is moving but so far unable to verify. :P

 

If you can still hear the noise no matter what , it may be due to the poweramp too sensitive to noise  ???

 

It is hard to enjoy the music fully once you know a problem even it is soft . Most of the time , you may be concentrating hard to detect the 'eee'...  ;D Especially the money you spent...  :P

 

A special dedicated line is good but still prone to pick up noise cos I believe all electric links . Even the distance from dedicated port to your HT point can pick up noise further . It is still good to minimise/block all internal noise generate by home appliances . Also the incoming electric to main circuit breaker .

 

I think the problem you may be facing is when you actually get a only powercord and powerconditioner that help to eliminate the noise to zero but you dont like the combo sound, then how leh  :-X

 

A small device that is really powerful enough to minimise EMI/RFI is noise destroyer from hifi-tuning . even if you own how many conditioners in the room  , you can still immediatelly spot the more darker black background once you plug in . The nearer you plug in , the more effective . However , it kill airs and make sound sounds brighter and thinner and louder. The more noise destroyers you plug in , more darker . This is the only one device that collapse my soundstage once I plug in 2 or more .

 

Hope you can find a combo that eliminate the noise and still like the sound , cheers  :)

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Thanks for the offer bro.  I would really love to have it for home trial but currently all my power cords are UK plugs. so can't fit your purepower at all. I'll be changing them to the stealth power cords soon. hehe. maybe change le then c how hehe

 

Changing the plugs to US will be cheaper...no? Can buy the Oyaide plug & get the uncle at LHS to change for a small fee. Unless of cos....upgrade fever is back. ;)

 

Cheers ;D

 

 

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If you can still hear the noise no matter what , it may be due to the poweramp too sensitive to noise  ???

 

It is hard to enjoy the music fully once you know a problem even it is soft . Most of the time , you may be concentrating hard to detect the 'eee'...  ;D Especially the money you spent...  :P

 

A special dedicated line is good but still prone to pick up noise cos I believe all electric links . Even the distance from dedicated port to your HT point can pick up noise further . It is still good to minimise/block all internal noise generate by home appliances . Also the incoming electric to main circuit breaker .

 

I think the problem you may be facing is when you actually get a only powercord and powerconditioner that help to eliminate the noise to zero but you dont like the combo sound, then how leh  :-X

 

A small device that is really powerful enough to minimise EMI/RFI is noise destroyer from hifi-tuning . even if you own how many conditioners in the room  , you can still immediatelly spot the more darker black background once you plug in . The nearer you plug in , the more effective . However , it kill airs and make sound sounds brighter and thinner and louder. The more noise destroyers you plug in , more darker . This is the only one device that collapse my soundstage once I plug in 2 or more .

 

Hope you can find a combo that eliminate the noise and still like the sound , cheers  :)

hey jason, you are correct. this is why i am taking time to home trial each conditioner.

not only must it remove the sound, but it must have the sound quality i want.. :)

 

as i also mentioned, it is possible i can use a conditioner then hook to purepower which should remove all this noise, but it might be better to just combine the budget for a higher end conditioner if really wanting to do that.

 

know about the noise destroyer but thought its better to solve the problem first and take these as 'enhancement'.. :)

 

 

Lorenzo, no problem. Heard stealth is a good brand but i personally have never tried.. do give us your feedback. :)

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hey jason, you are correct. this is why i am taking time to home trial each conditioner.

not only must it remove the sound, but it must have the sound quality i want.. :)

 

as i also mentioned, it is possible i can use a conditioner then hook to purepower which should remove all this noise, but it might be better to just combine the budget for a higher end conditioner if really wanting to do that.

 

know about the noise destroyer but thought its better to solve the problem first and take these as 'enhancement'.. :)

 

 

Lorenzo, no problem. Heard stealth is a good brand but i personally have never tried.. do give us your feedback. :)

 

I dont think there is agent for Equitech here in Singapore . I bought mine from HK dealer . But beware of this authorised dealer , I had truly bad experience with him .  >:(

 

Maybe you could double check all your connections again to confirm no loose contacts . Also there might be possibilities on cold soldering  ???

 

If you are already using balance from pre to amp , then its ok . If RCA, can try balance and see if it solve the problem . I had a case where my 2 new subs love true balance only or else its hum faint or loud, depending on which sub interconnects I used .  :-\

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I dont think there is agent for Equitech here in Singapore . I bought mine from HK dealer . But beware of this authorised dealer , I had truly bad experience with him .  >:(

 

Maybe you could double check all your connections again to confirm no loose contacts . Also there might be possibilities on cold soldering  ???

 

If you are already using balance from pre to amp , then its ok . If RCA, can try balance and see if it solve the problem . I had a case where my 2 new subs love true balance only or else its hum faint or loud, depending on which sub interconnects I used .  :-\

Thanks for the tips.. I did try all the above and I am using full balanced.

Btw noise level between unshielded XLR and shielded XLR also got difference. :) Shielded does help in my situation.

 

I feel it's not cold soldering or connections simply because the noise practically disappear when PurePower disconnect from wall, and when I use some conditioners, the noise level is very very low.. if it were another problem, why would it disappear in this instance? abit puzzling... i am still testing out other things but so far this area is the only one that reduce the problem to a low level.

 

I even tried to find out which component is the one that create this issue and separate out by different power lines/strips, but i think it create ground issues when I try some combinations.

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Thanks for the tips.. I did try all the above and I am using full balanced.

Btw noise level between unshielded XLR and shielded XLR also got difference. :) Shielded does help in my situation.

 

I feel it's not cold soldering or connections simply because the noise practically disappear when PurePower disconnect from wall, and when I use some conditioners, the noise level is very very low.. if it were another problem, why would it disappear in this instance? abit puzzling... i am still testing out other things but so far this area is the only one that reduce the problem to a low level.

 

I even tried to find out which component is the one that create this issue and separate out by different power lines/strips, but i think it create ground issues when I try some combinations.

 

Your case is really tricky . One more testing is unplug all the household appliances especially TV,fridge,washing machine and air con and see if it helps .

 

Since you mentioned some combinations create ground loop problems and there maybe really got ground loop problems somewhere . 

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Your case is really tricky . One more testing is unplug all the household appliances especially TV,fridge,washing machine and air con and see if it helps .

 

Since you mentioned some combinations create ground loop problems and there maybe really got ground loop problems somewhere . 

The first is possible to test again, since I have separate db switch, just switch off everything else.. but I still feel it is from outside the house.

 

I don't think it is ground as I mentioned before.

I can create ground problem by plugging in equipment differently to different power lines but it results in a different noise. Ground noise is constant.

My 'eee' sound comes and goes.. sometimes many mins can pass without the sound but at other times it is every minute. To me this sounds like more like a EMI/RF related issue than ground.

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Here's a suggestion.... Try floating all your equipment ground except the preamp. This will totally eliminate possibilities of ground loop. A ground loop creates a potential difference which in turns amplifies interferences going to the ground, including RFI/EMI.

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Hi Quest,

 

Don't know if it will help you http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/noise-harvester

 

Can pass to you to try it out.

 

Cheers  :)

Thanks for the offer.. will do more troubleshooting today to see if I can isolate the problem first. :)

 

Today am testing out a few different conditioners at a go. Will try to post about it.

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Guest AndrewC

Quest, excellent list. Here a couple more to add to the list, though I'm not sure how many are actually available retail in Singapore;

Accuphase, audience, Burmester, Furman, MIT, Running Springs, Synergistic Research, Transparent Audio, Walker Audio

 

... However, all of these can't give you more power than what the wall supplies, unlike PurePower which has a battery, but this is a minor point in Singapore as we seldom have black or brown outs....

 

Yes…. But some conditioners have tangibly lower output-impedance than our general mains AC outlet, and lots of capacitive storage; the net result being quicker power delivery to your component's dynamic power demand than they can get direct from the wall. For lower-power components like Pre-Amps and Sources, this better "dynamic" power availability is much more important than absolute total power available from an AC outlet (this was partially the basis for designs like the Mark Levinson N°32/N°33 and other pre/amplifiers with significant built-in power conditioning/regeneration).

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Quest, excellent list. Here a couple more to add to the list, though I'm not sure how many are actually available retail in Singapore;

Accuphase, audience, Burmester, Furman, MIT, Running Springs, Synergistic Research, Transparent Audio, Walker Audio

Good selection of additions. No idea where to place but just put into the list randomly for now. Out of those in your list, I probably am most curious about the Running Springs and Accuphase.

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Anyway, quick sniplet of last weekend. I started by testing some various power strips.. I hate to mention names in negative light so let's leave it as that. Most do a job of lowering background noise, but maybe the effect on dynamics means they are not for power amps though source/pre-amps can be used on them.

 

With raindrop audio's generosity, I managed to try two Gigawatt products which worked somewhat for my specific problem. The first was the PF2 power strip which helped quite a lot, and the PC3 SE EVO which seemed to reduce my 'eee' sound to zero. They both work best with the Gigawatt power cords as other cords I tried somehow did not reduce this noise down as much, so they could be thought of as complementary. I found both units to be nice looking and here is a shot of the PC3 SE EVO. Smaller than my PurePower, but still quite a large unit. It has no transformer in it so I've no idea what goes into it!

 

 

Like Jason mentioned though, each conditioner I tried has a different sound quality. Based on my short day with both the products, I felt the PF2 to be actually more dynamic/aggressive of the two, though the PC3 obviously adds more refinement and a blacker background. However, after my discussion with Ray on the PC3 SE EVO's character, he highlighted that I might not have utilized it optimally as I should have played around more with the different slots (there are 3 sections - 1 for high current, 1 for analog, and 1 for digital) as the PC3 should still add more dynamics over the PF2. This is very possible and I'd take his word for it for now.

 

Gigawatt does have its own tonality but which I could not place with my short time with them, but I would say it belongs slightly towards the warm side of the camp. The PC3 adds a more 'soft' edge to the notes, overall refinement and slightly more air with a clean, black background. Despite the general character which feels slightly more relaxed, dynamics are fairly well represented versus other products I tried, and I felt no diminishing of dynamics. Note all these comments are with their higher end power cord, the LS-1 which I felt opened up the mid/highs.

 

I also managed to hear a Sound Application power line conditioner which was quite an eye opener. It weighs less than even the PF2 and with 12 outlets, and doesn't look anything special, but plugging it in makes you pay attention. My PurePower and the Gigawatt units all have better dynamics than the wall, but the Sound Application wins by quite a fair margin on this scale. Images are more dense and have more weight, speed and transients are also its forte. Due to the dynamics, I felt my existing cables pulled the system too much to one side and it became abit too hard/fast sounding, proving that system matching is still key. With a quick test using some ASI power cords, I felt the synergy was much better. Unfortunately, the Sound Application didn't manage to reduce my line noise to zero the way the Gigawatt PC3 did, but did a decent job. Perhaps the higher end version will do better..

 

 

In any case, it still means I have to spend more time to find the source of the noise. After all that plugging in and out and switching to shielded balanced XLR cables, the frequency of the 'eee' sound in my system now is much less than before (maybe once every 10mins or longer). Someone told me could be the order of which I plug in my components to the PurePower. :P Once I solve this, it'll be an easier choice to select a PLC as it will be purely on sound quality. Listening to my system now without the noise in the dead of the night, the PurePower does sound adequate, but I have now heard better. ;)

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Called up AFA and was told the Torus 16A is 60-70kg and hence home trials would be tough..

 

I think he was exaggerating and went online to find out the AVR version is 56kg. :) With the added complication of UK plugs, I'm not sure I can give a good evaluation on it so might have to give it a pass, even though I'd be willing to pay for transport.. I was reading quite a bit on it on Malaysian blogs so this is kind of a disappointment.

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Here's a cheap tweak you might want to consider for the RF and noise issues... Highwire Wraps...

 

http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/Highwire+Audio+Power+Wraps+0.56/189/

 

Getting quite good feedback on the Audioasylum..

 

 

 

 

In any case, it still means I have to spend more time to find the source of the noise. After all that plugging in and out and switching to shielded balanced XLR cables, the frequency of the 'eee' sound in my system now is much less than before (maybe once every 10mins or longer). Someone told me could be the order of which I plug in my components to the PurePower. :P Once I solve this, it'll be an easier choice to select a PLC as it will be purely on sound quality. Listening to my system now without the noise in the dead of the night, the PurePower does sound adequate, but I have now heard better. ;)

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Quest, have you tried taking out the chord pre and put back the plinus and see if the noise is there.

I put back the plinius pre/power and the noise is there, just lower.

Make me wonder if I had not been noticing it before or not..

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i was looking for some ethernet adaptors for travel etc.. and i've been seeing these powerline ethernet adaptors.. which use the home power wiring for transmission of other signals at very high frequencies.. so you wont need to run lan cables and all that..

 

maybe someone near your place is using a device like that? :P

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