catman Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 G'day all, I never cease to be 'amazed' by the ways of product advertising especially when it comes to audio gear and particularly phono gear. I have many phono preamps, including two switchable MM/MC designs each of which are similar and competitive. One of them is the NAD PP2e and the other is its competitor which actually has slightly more features and better 'on paper' specifications, and is about half the price, yet in a head to head 'listening' comparison today the NAD PP2e was judged to be considerably better. Although I still have some concerns about aspects of the NAD PP2e technical design I have to concede that essentially it is actually a very good quality and sounding phono stage! So is it worth twice the price as its competitor? Well in this case, definitely yes, although over the years I have seen some appallingly bad examples of 'value for money'. At least in this case however, the more expensive phono stage is the better sounding of the two, in my heartfelt opinion. Interesting indeed! Regards, Felix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Hi Felix. I think it is always difficult to quantify and improvement when a given component or device is added to a system. The way I usually look at it is after auditioning I ask myself, a question along the lines of................. is this component worth me spending $1000 over and above the other component I am evaluating or would the extra $1K be better spent elsewhere,either in the system or for completely unrelated life expenses? I have an amplifier and a pair of speakers in my system that I thought were expensive when I first bought them but after the initial resistance , I have never once regretted the decision to buy them and would not part with them OTOH, I have,on many occasions, evaluated items in my system that I ultimately decided were not worthy of the expenditure, however good they may have been and I don't regret not buying them either 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joz Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Felix, am I reading this right that the NAD is better in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 G'day mate, yes. Regards, Felix. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregWormald Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 3 hours ago, rantan said: I think it is always difficult to quantify and improvement when a given component or device is added to a system. The way I usually look at it is after auditioning I ask myself, a question along the lines of................. is this component worth me spending YES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankn Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 only twice the price........................It doesn't matter how much more it is...... could be much, much more. Seriously, we probably have all been told of, read about, found (even) - bits of kit that are "giant killers" or "bargains for their performance". However, sometimes these gems turn out to be gems in the eye(ear) of the beholder, or YRMV, or just plain not true. Even fewer turn out to be the genuine article. I think it is great that your results please you Felix. Enjoy it to the maximum. Only you can tell whether it is worth it for you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiofeline Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I'm curious Felix, are you able to name the "competitor" to the NAD? I can't see a problem, as you are only expressing your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) Maybe there is a reason: loading capacitance. G'day all, well this is interesting and again shows how important load capacitance is with typically high inductance moving magnet cartridges. The NAD PP2e (according to the official specs), is 47 k and 200 pf and the other unit is 47 k and 220 pf and it doesn't seem like much of a difference does it? Don't you believe it! Raiding my stock of patch cables I was able to juggle the input capacitance to better values for my preferred cartridges (the Ortofon Super OM 10 and the Shure M97xE) and things sound 'much better' than previously. Subjectively about as good as the NAD PP2e in actuality! I'll need to do more listening tests to be sure, but it seems that the exact value of load capacitance is the critical difference! Well I have been saying this for years, haven't I? Regards, Felix. Edited June 28, 2017 by catman Spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 @catman .......and the other phono stage's brand? Some of us are very curious as to what you're comparing the NAD to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 The NAD costs around $200....so the competitor is therefore $100...so I have NO IDEA what phono that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 ART phono thingy or tc whatever some number phonoSent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roumelio. Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) $100 on a phono amp = yech... I have a $100 Behringer OP amp to be honest, it might do what its supposed to do, but it doesn't sound the way it should. Given $100 you're better off finding a solid state tuner with a phono stage from your local St. Vinny's and praying for the best. I've collected some things along the way that are horrible others not so much. My best dump find is a set of Rogers Export monitors. Price them on fleabay... My other component I got for $100 was a Technics SL-D2 and my Pioneer SA-400 cost $300. Overall probably $1500-$2000 worth of components while listening to "any given Sunday" People here will turn their nose up at vintage equipment, people will say X can't compete with Y due to price. If you're that much of a toffee noser it's really not worth discussing the matter any further. Edited July 3, 2017 by Roumelio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EV Cali Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, Roumelio. said: People here will turn their nose up at vintage equipment, people will say X can't compete with Y due to price. If you're that much of a toffee noser it's really not worth discussing the matter any further. I think you need to read a few more threads and posts on this site. Many fans of vintage gear here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hergest Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, Roumelio. said: People here will turn their nose up at vintage equipment, people will say X can't compete with Y due to price. If you're that much of a toffee noser it's really not worth discussing the matter any further. You are wrong in every single instance. Nobody here will turn their nose up at vintage equipment. Nobody here will say x can't compete with y due to price. Nobody here is a toffee nose. You seem to have arrived at Stereonet with a chip on your shoulder. You should stay around and read some more so you can lose it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roumelio. Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I'm getting the feeling unlike a lot of forums certain people are a little bit crabby. I might change my mind after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joz Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Hi @Roumelio. If you spend enough time here you will find that Stereonet has enthusiasts that support and enjoy their audio from many of the perspectives that audio presents. Im sure many will side with your view and many that won't , this is a big sandpit and we have room for everyone to come and play. Just play nice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts